Should Conversion Therapy Be Outlawed?

[Lucipurr]

It should be legal! Slay the gay 2015 and pffftHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NAH, I CAN'T DO IT.

It should be illegal, both if the "patient" is voluntarily joining it or no, as it's not really humanitarian.

It's not really humanitarian to stop a consenting adult from doing something they want to do.

Exactly, it's authoritarian and stupid.

[Morr]

That seems really unlikely. If that were the case, the suicide rate wouldn't take ten years to start rising, but would keep rising gradually from transition. Instead, transition and the ten years following, the suicide rates are far lower (indeed, this is why sex changes are accepted as treatment by the medical community). If we're assuming that bullying and so on rise drastically after transition, and that they are the cause of the suicide, then certainly suicide is not going to drastically decrease after transition and for ten years. The first two years following post op is when alienation is at its pitch, all the friends that are going to ditch you do so then, you don't necessarily have a trans community you're a part of. After ten years, you're much more likely to have a new set of supportive friends and be in touch with the trans community. Sure, there's still bullying, but you also have an awful lot more support. It just doesn't make sense that the first years, when bullying is the worse, has by far the lowest suicide rates, and furthermore that the rates don't rise gradually from then, but jump suddenly at ten years and then keep jumping after that until they reach the 19:1 ratio.

Umm, the graph shows it did go gradually, with enough of a difference at 10 years to show divergence...You are making a lot of claims right there, care to back them all up.

*sigh* Do you know how to draw a trend line? I take it you do. Look at the trend line before ten years, compare it to the trend line after ten years.

[San Lumen]

It's not really humanitarian to stop a consenting adult from doing something they want to do.

Exactly, it's authoritarian and stupid.

Why is it authoritarian to ban a practice that is harmful and doesn't work?

[Morr]

Exactly, it's authoritarian and stupid.

Why is it authoritarian to ban a practice that is harmful and doesn't work?

It might not work, but banning it isn't going to make gay Christians suddenly embrace their gayness and be happy with it.

[Rodrania]

Why is it authoritarian to ban a practice that is harmful and doesn't work?

It might not work, but banning it isn't going to make gay Christians suddenly embrace their gayness and be happy with it.

Why not try something that actually works and won't get your hurt? Like a psychologist? If you are in doubt with you sexuality so badly you think about taking conversion therapy, why not just ask a professional for help?

Not saying Gay people need a Psychologist, before anyone misinterprets my words. Just saying that a psychologist can really help you find your true sexual orientation if you are unsure about it.

[LaVeyan Stirnerite Randroids]

Just ban it so that people can't coerce other people to go through it by peer pressure, ostracism, bullying or some other way. It being legal is an excuse for people to do it in the first place.

[Morr]

It might not work, but banning it isn't going to make gay Christians suddenly embrace their gayness and be happy with it.

Why not try something that actually works and won't get your hurt? Like a psychologist? If you are in doubt with you sexuality so badly you think about taking conversion therapy, why not just ask a professional for help?

Not saying Gay people need a Psychologist, before anyone misinterprets my words. Just saying that a psychologist can really help you find your true sexual orientation if you are unsure about it.

I don't think we're talking about people who are in doubt about their sexuality, I think they are simply saying they don't want it. The idea of "conversion therapy" is of course not really a proper Christian solution, since the cure for sinful tendency in Christianity isn't clinical, but there's still no reason to ban it.

[Rodrania]

Why not try something that actually works and won't get your hurt? Like a psychologist? If you are in doubt with you sexuality so badly you think about taking conversion therapy, why not just ask a professional for help?

Not saying Gay people need a Psychologist, before anyone misinterprets my words. Just saying that a psychologist can really help you find your true sexual orientation if you are unsure about it.

I don't think we're talking about people who are in doubt about their sexuality, I think they are simply saying they don't want it. The idea of "conversion therapy" is of course not really a proper Christian solution, since the cure for sinful tendency in Christianity isn't clinical, but there's still no reason to ban it.

Aside from the high chance of dying or getting hurt? I still believe a Psychologist might help a lot in changing your sexual orientation back to heterosexual without scarring you mentally.

[Morr]

I don't think we're talking about people who are in doubt about their sexuality, I think they are simply saying they don't want it. The idea of "conversion therapy" is of course not really a proper Christian solution, since the cure for sinful tendency in Christianity isn't clinical, but there's still no reason to ban it.

Aside from the high chance of dying or getting hurt? I still believe a Psychologist might help a lot in changing your sexual orientation back to heterosexual without scarring you mentally.

A psychologist is probably just going to tell them that their lust and so on is perfectly natural and nothing to ashamed of, so I'm not sure how that would be helpful.

A priest is more of what they're looking for, but I imagine they're all Protestant.

[Rodrania]

Aside from the high chance of dying or getting hurt? I still believe a Psychologist might help a lot in changing your sexual orientation back to heterosexual without scarring you mentally.

A psychologist is probably just going to tell them that their lust and so on is perfectly natural and nothing to ashamed of, so I'm not sure how that would be helpful.

A priest is more of what they're looking for, but I imagine they're all Protestant.

Being homosexual (as an example of non-heterosexual sexualities) isn't just having lust for the same gender. And a good psychologist won't just say "Oh yeah, it's normal, go and kiss some men and you'll be fine". I know because I went to a psychologist (Not because I felt attracted to other men, but for other reasons ) and I was never told "Oh yeah, you're depressive, the world isn't shit, go take a nap and it'll go away".

[Zoice]

Aside from the high chance of dying or getting hurt? I still believe a Psychologist might help a lot in changing your sexual orientation back to heterosexual without scarring you mentally.

A psychologist is probably just going to tell them that their lust and so on is perfectly natural and nothing to ashamed of, so I'm not sure how that would be helpful.

A priest is more of what they're looking for, but I imagine they're all Protestant.

A priest is literally the worst occupation to seek for help when you're having psychological troubles.

[Morr]

A psychologist is probably just going to tell them that their lust and so on is perfectly natural and nothing to ashamed of, so I'm not sure how that would be helpful.

A priest is more of what they're looking for, but I imagine they're all Protestant.

A priest is literally the worst occupation to seek for help when you're having psychological troubles.

We're not talking about a psychological disorder, we're talking about a spiritual disorder. I sometimes have problems with lust myself, I don't go to a psychologist for that.

[Weaponized EMP Monopolies]

Involuntary treatment should definitely be outlawed. Let's get on that with a cattle prod.

A question for the people who know about the medicals here: is conversion therapy especially harmful to teens, considering that they're in the process of finding their sexual orientation?

[Neutraligon]

Umm, the graph shows it did go gradually, with enough of a difference at 10 years to show divergence...You are making a lot of claims right there, care to back them all up.

*sigh* Do you know how to draw a trend line? I take it you do. Look at the trend line before ten years, compare it to the trend line after ten years.

Yes I know how to look at trend lines. The trend shows that the rate of death for any cause actually departs earlier, and shows a large difference by 10 years.

It's funny, you are reading into the study exactly what it says you should not read into it

It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality.

[Zoice]

A priest is literally the worst occupation to seek for help when you're having psychological troubles.

We're not talking about a psychological disorder, we're talking about a spiritual disorder. I sometimes have problems with lust myself, I don't go to a psychologist for that.

That's a distinction without a difference, and again, you should never go to a priest when you are experiencing problems.

[Rodrania]

A priest is literally the worst occupation to seek for help when you're having psychological troubles.

We're not talking about a psychological disorder, we're talking about a spiritual disorder. I sometimes have problems with lust myself, I don't go to a psychologist for that.

Being Homosexual isn't just lusting for someone of the same gender, but also feeling love. The same way you feel/felt for your wife/girlfriend/ex-girlfriend/ex-wife, but with the same gender.

[Morr]

*sigh* Do you know how to draw a trend line? I take it you do. Look at the trend line before ten years, compare it to the trend line after ten years.

Yes I know how to look at trend lines. The trend shows that the rate of death for any cause actually departs earlier, and shows a large difference by 10 years.

It does that it departs earlier, but the trend is way different.

[Morr]

We're not talking about a psychological disorder, we're talking about a spiritual disorder. I sometimes have problems with lust myself, I don't go to a psychologist for that.

That's a distinction without a difference, and again, you should never go to a priest when you are experiencing problems.

I don't? That's a major function of priests.

[Morr]

We're not talking about a psychological disorder, we're talking about a spiritual disorder. I sometimes have problems with lust myself, I don't go to a psychologist for that.

Being Homosexual isn't just lusting for someone of the same gender, but also feeling love. The same way you feel/felt for your wife/girlfriend/ex-girlfriend/ex-wife, but with the same gender.

Well I wouldn't go to a psychologist to help me with unrequited love. And if I fell in love with a nun and it was requited, I wouldn't go to a psychologist for that either.

[Neutraligon]

Yes I know how to look at trend lines. The trend shows that the rate of death for any cause actually departs earlier, and shows a large difference by 10 years.

It does that it departs earlier, but the trend is way different.

It really isn't. Did you notice my edit?

[Morr]

It does that it departs earlier, but the trend is way different.

It really isn't. Did you notice my edit?

It objectively is. Draw the trend lines yourself.

[Zoice]

That's a distinction without a difference, and again, you should never go to a priest when you are experiencing problems.

I don't? That's a major function of priests.

That's a problem, people that are having psychological issues should go to a qualified medical professional, not a priest.

Also, Neutraligon edited his post, go look at it because it's a quote from the study explicitly saying "No, Morr's interpretation is wrong."

[Neutraligon]

It really isn't. Did you notice my edit?

It objectively is. Draw the trend lines yourself.

I have no need to draw the trend lines myself. Again you are wrong. Again did you notice my edit? If not here it is again

It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality.

You are using a study in a way they specifically stated it should not be used. You are making assumptions about how suicide work and when it occurs. You are failing to look at trend lines appropriately.

[Morr]

It objectively is. Draw the trend lines yourself.

I have no need to draw the trend lines myself. Again you are wrong. Again did you notice my edit? If not here it is again

It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality.

You are using a study in a way they specifically stated it should not be used. You are making assumptions about how suicide work and when it occurs. You are failing to look at trend lines appropriately.

Do you see any difference in trajectory, here?

[Neutraligon]

I have no need to draw the trend lines myself. Again you are wrong. Again did you notice my edit? If not here it is again


You are using a study in a way they specifically stated it should not be used. You are making assumptions about how suicide work and when it occurs. You are failing to look at trend lines appropriately.

Do you see any difference in trajectory, here?

As I said, you are drawing the trend lines wrong, thank you for the proof you are doing so. I notice you still did not respond to the edit

It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality.