Should Conversion Therapy Be Outlawed?

[Kraylandia]

That's not a use. Name a real use, that's actually beneficial for the recipient, and to the country as a whole.

Mentally stable individuals.

I'm a mentally stable, bisexual individual.

[Stonepeak]

Mentally stable individuals.

What are you talking about? This is getting off topic.

How is being mental stability not a benefit for the recipient?

[The Princes of the Universe]

What are you talking about? This is getting off topic.

How is being mental stability not a benefit for the recipient?

How does this quackery do anything but wreck mental stability?

[Val Halla]

What are you talking about? This is getting off topic.

How is being mental stability not a benefit for the recipient?

You tell me

[San Lumen]

How is being mental stability not a benefit for the recipient?

How does this quackery do anything but wreck mental stability?

Exactly. Conversion therapy does nothing but harm as homosexuality isn't something that can be cured. How does banning it become an argument about freedom?

[The Princes of the Universe]

How does this quackery do anything but wreck mental stability?

Exactly. Conversion therapy does nothing but harm as homosexuality isn't something that can be cured. How does banning it become an argument about freedom?

When society doesn't put up with wackos calling us faggots nutters. *nod*

[Occupied Deutschland]

How does this quackery do anything but wreck mental stability?

Exactly. Conversion therapy does nothing but harm as homosexuality isn't something that can be cured. How does banning it become an argument about freedom?

The same way banning homeopathy would. Not that hard to understand, consent is a helluva drug phenomenon.

[Salandriagado]

That's not a use. Name a real use, that's actually beneficial for the recipient, and to the country as a whole.

Mentally stable individuals.

The intersection of individuals without mental problems and the people produced by these programs is vanishingly small. The set of people who lack mental problems because of the "help" that they received from these programs is empty.

What are you talking about? This is getting off topic.

How is being mental stability not a benefit for the recipient?

It is. However, the PTSD and other serious problems with mental stability that actually result from these programs definitely do not qualify as benefits.

[Kraylandia]

Exactly. Conversion therapy does nothing but harm as homosexuality isn't something that can be cured. How does banning it become an argument about freedom?

When society doesn't put up with wackos calling us faggots nutters. *nod*

Well, we are faggot nutters.

[The Princes of the Universe]

When society doesn't put up with wackos calling us faggots nutters. *nod*

Well, we are faggot nutters.

Perhaps, but the latter doesn't stem from the former.

[Kraylandia]

Well, we are faggot nutters.

Perhaps, but the latter doesn't stem from the former.

Haha, I know. Just using his insult in a positive way.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Perhaps, but the latter doesn't stem from the former.

Haha, I know. Just using his insult in a positive way.

To be fair, he didn't actually come out and say it. He sure as hell implied it heavily enough to remove any and all doubt as to his meaning, but he never actually said it.

[Lunalia]

Why should it be different if its forced or its voluntary? It doesn't work. So you oppose laws that outlaw it?

Shit man, faith healing doesn't work. Prayer doesn't work. Training your dog to stay off the damn couch doesn't work. Something being pointless is, ironically, not a reason to ban it.

It is advertised by people who claim that it does work, and faith is used to coerce people into participating even though it doesn't work. It's actively harmful. It's hard to tell if someone is in fact participating willingly or being coerced by a family member or someone in their community who thinks homosexuality is wrong. The other day on facebook someone was sharing a post calling out a woman's pastor, who turned on her when she had to get an abortion because the baby was going to kill her if she didn't. She ended up not getting an abortion, and the pastor said her death was a tragic accident at her funeral. Accident, it was not. It was people she cared about forcing her to die. People who "care" about others force them to get this "therapy". It should be banned so that others cannot similarly be forced.

[Kauthar]

Human Rights are what's holding back humanity. By 2030 it will be a human right not to be offended. If we abolish human rights then the world would be fine, less diplomatic whining, more getting stuff done.

You can;t be serious? Abolish Human rights? fan of dictatorship much?

Dictatorships are more efficient and more stable than democracies when outside Europe and N. America, so yes.

[San Lumen]

You can;t be serious? Abolish Human rights? fan of dictatorship much?

Dictatorships are more efficient and more stable than democracies when outside Europe and N. America, so yes.

They are not and that's not relevant to the thread. I still haven;t gotten an answer as to why outlawing conversation therapy violates freedom?

[Greed and Death]

If they hire a clever enough lawyer they could get you declared incompetent, have themselves placed as guardians, and then send you to a pray away the gay camp.

I'm sorry but no sane judge would rule that way and a lawyer who would make a case like that would be laughed out of court.

Well obviously the lawyer does not claim they incompetent because they are gay, some other reason is made up. It takes more than a lawyer. Private investigators would be needed. Maybe a drug addiction, a string of depressive events, unreported suicide attempts, the list goes on.

Then after winning they ship the adult child off to Jesus Christ land.

[Kraylandia]

Dictatorships are more efficient and more stable than democracies when outside Europe and N. America, so yes.

They are not and that's not relevant to the thread. I still haven;t gotten an answer as to why outlawing conversation therapy violates freedom?

You have. Because adults should be able to make any decision that affects them, providing it doesn't harm others. Banning this violates that.

[Salus Maior]

Not when the dead souls are allowed to marry, it shouldn't be.

Please clarify: what do you mean by dead souls?

The successor series to the hardcore RPG series "Dark Souls" probably.

[Kraylandia]

Please clarify: what do you mean by dead souls?

The successor series to the hardcore RPG series "Dark Souls" probably.

[Salus Maior]

They are not and that's not relevant to the thread. I still haven;t gotten an answer as to why outlawing conversation therapy violates freedom?

You have. Because adults should be able to make any decision that affects them, providing it doesn't harm others. Banning this violates that.

The thing is, that's like saying bleach will cure cancer if you drink it. Does it hurt anyone else if you, personally, choose to do it? No, but you're being led into something that will not only not change your condition, but may very well harm you greatly, based on what people assume it will do.

[Kraylandia]

You have. Because adults should be able to make any decision that affects them, providing it doesn't harm others. Banning this violates that.

The thing is, that's like saying bleach will cure cancer if you drink it. Does it hurt anyone else if you, personally, choose to do it? No, but you're being led into something that will not only not change your condition, but may very well harm you greatly, based on what people assume it will do.

If you're stupid enough to actually believe it, then it's your fault. If you have full mental capacity and of adult age, then do whatever the fuck you want. The consequence is on you.

[Salus Maior]

The thing is, that's like saying bleach will cure cancer if you drink it. Does it hurt anyone else if you, personally, choose to do it? No, but you're being led into something that will not only not change your condition, but may very well harm you greatly, based on what people assume it will do.

If you're stupid enough to actually believe it, then it's your fault. If you have full mental capacity and of adult age, then do whatever the fuck you want. The consequence is on you.

Or, we could simply avoid harm coming to stupid people by banning the practice that doesn't do what it preaches. Nobody's harmed by that, either.

You don't need harsh "therapy" if you want to choose to be heterosexual or whatever.

[Kraylandia]

If you're stupid enough to actually believe it, then it's your fault. If you have full mental capacity and of adult age, then do whatever the fuck you want. The consequence is on you.

Or, we could simply avoid harm coming to stupid people by banning the practice that doesn't do what it preaches. Nobody's harmed by that, either.

You don't need harsh "therapy" if you want to choose to be heterosexual or whatever.

No, we should have less regulation in our lives. What happens to stupid people is on them, but of course we should be protecting the actual mentally disabled from this.

And you don't need any harsh therapy to change sexuality because you fucking can't. I'm a bisexual and no therapy or whatever you wanna call it is gonna change that, but if people wanna believe that then let them.

[Neutraligon]

Yes for the same reason drugs that cause harm are banned. If it is not banned then they need to not only reveal that this is not supported by doctors or psychologists, that those two professions in general feel it harmful, and they need to outline the possible negative repercussions the same way current drugs need to. They cannot advertise this as a medical procedure or they are committing fraud.

[San Lumen]

Yes for the same reason drugs that cause harm are banned. If it is not banned then they need to not only reveal that this is not supported by doctors or psychologists, that those two professions in general feel it harmful, and they need to outline the possible negative repercussions the same way current drugs need to. They cannot advertise this as a medical procedure or they are committing fraud.

Good luck getting the quack scientists who practice it to do that.