Russian Politics Thread: Добро пожаловать!

[Shofercia]

So Grigory and Mikhail Prokhorov look like good candidates. Its a shame they won't win.

Prokhorov won't win, but he might get a movement going that could eventually take the presidency. He's a decent candidate. Yavlinsky dug his own political grave with his two city campaign. Long story short, you need seven percent of the voters to vote for your party in order to be elected to the Duma. Yavlinsky thought that he could accomplish that by campaigning in just two cities. Reality disagreed and Yabloko got pwnd. Their fault.

[Roski]

fixed

Well, I'll say I much prefer that one to Kasyanov. But still, I fear he makes a lot of empty promises; promising to lower taxes and increase civic spending while the economy is already going bad is doubtful at best.

I don't have general ideas of how Russian candidates try to get into power (albeit, democratic elections are fairly new there).

Anyone who wants to bring Russia closer to the West, which would be a massive, massive benefit for Russia (and much more so than it would be for the West), is good for me. Russia's ability to make peace with the west would allow them to get out of this almost rogue state situation they've become and are still becoming.

And of course fuck syria and iran.

[Shofercia]

fixed

Well, I'll say I much prefer that one to Kasyanov. But still, I fear he makes a lot of empty promises; promising to lower taxes and increase civic spending while the economy is already going bad is doubtful at best.

He wrote that plan before the 2014 Crisis, when oil was still riding high. It made sense at the time.

[Ghatawerpya]

If a Donbass rebel says something funny or interesting why shouldn't it be shared? In this case at least, I wasn't trying to smear the Donbass rebels.

So stating that the DonBass Rebels are at war with the West isn't smearing them?

Well not if they say they are.

[Ardoki]

So because Putin is a real person he mustn't be corrupt? Do you think corruption doesn't exist or only that real persons can't be corrupt?

You didn't say that Putin was corrupt, although your attempt to move goalposts have been noted, Ardoki. You called him a kleptocrat. You then went on to pretend that your claim was a fact. Kleptocrats generally don't have have approval ratings in the 60s+ because being a kleptocrat requires stealing from a wide spectrum of the population, instead of just taking a few bribes.

Kleptocrats are by definition, corrupt. Kleptocracy is even listed as a 'concept' in political corruption.

Putin has stolen over 200 billion USD, yet due to censorship, state control of media, and the disappearances and suspicious deaths of journalists (among many other repressive techniques), the vast majority of Russians do not know of the extent of his theft.

Are you really naive enough to believe that if political leader is popular they must be innocent? Kim Jong-Un is quite 'popular' with the North Korean people, yet we all know the extent of his crimes against humanity.

[Shofercia]

So stating that the DonBass Rebels are at war with the West isn't smearing them?

Well not if they say they are.

They? Your quote was of a single Rebel making a single statement. You do know that the term "they" is plural, right?

[Geilinor]

You can like or not like, but generally speaking, setting people on fire and shelling schools tends to constitute war crimes.

The rebels have done their own share of attacking and shelling innocent people.

[United Marxist Nations]

Well not if they say they are.

They? Your quote was of a single Rebel making a single statement. You do know that the term "they" is plural, right?

Don't underestimate.

[Shofercia]

You didn't say that Putin was corrupt, although your attempt to move goalposts have been noted, Ardoki. You called him a kleptocrat. You then went on to pretend that your claim was a fact. Kleptocrats generally don't have have approval ratings in the 60s+ because being a kleptocrat requires stealing from a wide spectrum of the population, instead of just taking a few bribes.

Kleptocrats are by definition, corrupt. Kleptocracy is even listed as a 'concept' in political corruption.

Putin has stolen over 200 billion USD, yet due to censorship, state control of media, and the disappearances and suspicious deaths of journalists (among many other repressive techniques), the vast majority of Russians do not know of the extent of his theft.

Are you really naive enough to believe that if political leader is popular they must be innocent? Kim Jong-Un is quite 'popular' with the North Korean people, yet we all know the extent of his crimes against humanity.

He stole over 200 billion? Can I get an objective source for that claim, and not a Russophobe butthurt at Russia and/or Putin?

[Shofercia]

You can like or not like, but generally speaking, setting people on fire and shelling schools tends to constitute war crimes.

The rebels have done their own share of attacking and shelling innocent people.

And which country forced a ceasefire the first chance they got? Right Russia. Or you can believe Poroshenko's fairy tale about how the Ukrainian Armed Forces stopped the SpetzNaz in its tracks with a bazillion casualties!

[Ardoki]

Kleptocrats are by definition, corrupt. Kleptocracy is even listed as a 'concept' in political corruption.

Putin has stolen over 200 billion USD, yet due to censorship, state control of media, and the disappearances and suspicious deaths of journalists (among many other repressive techniques), the vast majority of Russians do not know of the extent of his theft.

Are you really naive enough to believe that if political leader is popular they must be innocent? Kim Jong-Un is quite 'popular' with the North Korean people, yet we all know the extent of his crimes against humanity.

He stole over 200 billion? Can I get an objective source for that claim, and not a Russophobe butthurt at Russia and/or Putin?

http://nypost.com/2015/02/16/investor-putin-could-be-worlds-richest-man-with-stolen-200b-fortune/

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/02/15/putins-net-worth-is-200-billion-says-russias-once-largest-foreigner-investor/

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/putin-has-200b-stolen-fortune-could-be-worlds-richest-man-browder-1422290

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333709/Putins-friends-accused-stealing-30billion-Russian-Winter-Olympics.html

[Roski]

He stole over 200 billion? Can I get an objective source for that claim, and not a Russophobe butthurt at Russia and/or Putin?

http://nypost.com/2015/02/16/investor-putin-could-be-worlds-richest-man-with-stolen-200b-fortune/

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/02/15/putins-net-worth-is-200-billion-says-russias-once-largest-foreigner-investor/

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/putin-has-200b-stolen-fortune-could-be-worlds-richest-man-browder-1422290

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333709/Putins-friends-accused-stealing-30billion-Russian-Winter-Olympics.html

I don't see a valid source.

I have a link to a BBC page that stated that the US Treasury stated that Putin was Corrupt. I have nothing on real accusations and proof.

[United Marxist Nations]

He stole over 200 billion? Can I get an objective source for that claim, and not a Russophobe butthurt at Russia and/or Putin?

http://nypost.com/2015/02/16/investor-putin-could-be-worlds-richest-man-with-stolen-200b-fortune/

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/02/15/putins-net-worth-is-200-billion-says-russias-once-largest-foreigner-investor/

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/putin-has-200b-stolen-fortune-could-be-worlds-richest-man-browder-1422290

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333709/Putins-friends-accused-stealing-30billion-Russian-Winter-Olympics.html

From the URL

"says Russia's once largest foreigner investor"

[Ardoki]

http://nypost.com/2015/02/16/investor-putin-could-be-worlds-richest-man-with-stolen-200b-fortune/

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/02/15/putins-net-worth-is-200-billion-says-russias-once-largest-foreigner-investor/

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/putin-has-200b-stolen-fortune-could-be-worlds-richest-man-browder-1422290

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333709/Putins-friends-accused-stealing-30billion-Russian-Winter-Olympics.html

From the URL

"says Russia's once largest foreigner investor"

Putin is a neo-nazi. I don't know why people even try to defend him.

[United Marxist Nations]

From the URL

"says Russia's once largest foreigner investor"

Putin is a neo-nazi. I don't know why people even try to defend him.

I seriously hope you don't believe this.

[Shofercia]

He stole over 200 billion? Can I get an objective source for that claim, and not a Russophobe butthurt at Russia and/or Putin?

http://nypost.com/2015/02/16/investor-putin-could-be-worlds-richest-man-with-stolen-200b-fortune/

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/02/15/putins-net-worth-is-200-billion-says-russias-once-largest-foreigner-investor/

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/putin-has-200b-stolen-fortune-could-be-worlds-richest-man-browder-1422290

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333709/Putins-friends-accused-stealing-30billion-Russian-Winter-Olympics.html

Yes, Putin stole $30 billion from the Russian Winter Olympics which was funded by Putin's faction. That's absolutely brilliant, stealing from yourself! Might have a bit of difficulty proving that in a Court of Law. How did your source arrive at this Great Olympic Heist?

Nemtsov arrived at the figure of $30 billion by comparing the initial cost estimate of the games with the final $51-billion price tag and with typical cost overruns at previous Olympics. Nemtsov did not provide a specific breakdown of the overruns that formed the basis of his $30 billion estimate of corruption.

So he's randomly guessing. Moving on. Your next source is Bill Browder, who covers all of your three sources:

One of Russia's largest foreign investor has claimed President Vladimir Putin has managed to amass some $200 billion of stolen wealth, making him the richest man in the world so far. Bill Browder, the CEO of Hermitage Capital Management, said Mr Putin has hundreds of billions of dollars stashed away in probably various overseas accounts.

Who is this Bill Browder? Well remember how shitty things got in Russia in the 1990s? Bill Browder was the ultimate capitalist vulture of the 1990s. Let's take a look at an article from those days: http://www.anusha.com/ru-stock.htm

MOSCOW -- Bill Browder started buying Russian stocks before there was a stock market in Moscow. It was 1993, the year President Boris N. Yeltsin defeated Communist hard-liners by shelling the parliament. Industrial output was collapsing; inflation was rampant. Investing? Russians with money were smuggling billions of dollars out of the country. There were no exchanges, no prospectuses, no earnings reports and almost no earnings. But there was stock. Under Yeltsin's privatization program, shares in thousands of former government enterprises were auctioned off or given to workers and managers. Most people thought these shares were worthless; Browder thought they were cheap. As Salomon Brothers' 29-year-old manager for Russian equities, and then later on his own, he went to places like Siberia and Tatarstan to snap up shares in oil companies, mines and utilities. Today, that looks smart. Wearing dollar-sign cuff links and working a few blocks from the Bolshoi Theater, Browder, now 33, runs what could be the most successful investment fund in the world this year. Shares in the Hermitage Fund, which began in April 1996 with $25 million from Republic National Bank in New York, doubled in 1996 and have nearly tripled again since January. With new money pouring in from wealthy investors and institutions around the world, Browder now manages $1.2 billion in Russian stocks.

Russia is hot. Six years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the land of Lenin and Stalin is suddenly gripped by stock-buying fever. Its nascent stock market has shot higher lately than any other, tripling in the last 18 months. Professional traders now swap shares over an electronic trading system. Foreign investment funds like Hermitage, often registered in tax havens like the Cayman Islands, Cyprus and Guernsey, where Hermitage is based, have channeled about $3 billion into Russian stocks. Moscow's top hotels are swarming with Western bankers, brokers and deal makers. "Almost every major emerging-market stock fund is here," said Dirk Damrau, head of research at Renaissance Capital Group, one of Moscow's biggest investment firms. "Anyone who was in Latin America or Asia or Central Europe is now here." The boom has been driven by two things: a conviction that Yeltsin's economic changes are making Russia safe for capitalism and, more opportunistically, the lure of incredibly cheap assets -- the upshot of privatization plans that bore little resemblance to capitalism as practiced in the West.

And how put the damper on Browder's Russia vulture capitalism profiteering? Why, none other than Vladimir Putin. Hmm, I wonder if Bill Browder is butthurt at Vladimir Putin?

[Shofercia]

From the URL

"says Russia's once largest foreigner investor"

Putin is a neo-nazi. I don't know why people even try to defend him.

Ardoki, we are quite well aware of your incredible ability to say mean things about Putin. But most of us don't give a flying fuck about it.

[Geilinor]

Putin is a neo-nazi. I don't know why people even try to defend him.

Alright, as someone who's no fan of Putin, he is not a neo-Nazi.

[United Marxist Nations]

Putin is a neo-nazi. I don't know why people even try to defend him.

Alright, as someone who's no fan of Putin, he is not a neo-Nazi.

No, it's fine. If Ardoki wants to apply complex political labels on a basis that would, in fact, allow him to apply said labels to things predating the existence of that ideology, let him be. His BS about Neo-Nazism has been debunked several times before, he just doesn't want to let it die.

[Ardoki]

Putin is a neo-nazi. I don't know why people even try to defend him.

Alright, as someone who's no fan of Putin, he is not a neo-Nazi.

Putin oppresses the LGBTQIA+ persons, like Hitler oppressed the Jews in the 1930s.

[Shofercia]

Alright, as someone who's no fan of Putin, he is not a neo-Nazi.

No, it's fine. If Ardoki wants to apply complex political labels on a basis that would, in fact, allow him to apply said labels to things predating the existence of that ideology, let him be. His BS about Neo-Nazism has been debunked several times before, he just doesn't want to let it die.

Don't forget, according to Ardoki, Putin's faction also stole from itself during the Sochi Olympic Games. And if a corrupt vulture capitalist of the 1990s says something about the man who kicked him out of Russia, every statement he makes is also 100% true. Ardoki said so.

[United Marxist Nations]

Alright, as someone who's no fan of Putin, he is not a neo-Nazi.

Putin oppresses the LGBTQIA+ persons, like Hitler oppressed the Jews in the 1930s.

So did Valentinian III, probably. Vague connections does not a complicated ideology make, Ardoki. Remember, political repression is a proven and reliable political tool since the existence of the state.

[Shofercia]

Alright, as someone who's no fan of Putin, he is not a neo-Nazi.

Putin oppresses the LGBTQIA+ persons, like Hitler oppressed the Jews in the 1930s.

Really? So there are LGBTQIA+ ghettos? Where at? Is the Russian police going into private homes and telling the LGBTQIA+ community to lower their pants so that they can decide if the penis gay or straight?

Putin oppresses the LGBTQIA+ persons, like Hitler oppressed the Jews in the 1930s.

So did Valentinian III, probably. Vague connections does not a complicated ideology make, Ardoki. Remember, political repression is a proven and reliable political tool since the existence of the state.

Actually, UMN, he's wrong. He said 1930s. That includes 1938 and 1939. So Ardoki's wrong once again, big surprise.

[Ardoki]

Putin oppresses the LGBTQIA+ persons, like Hitler oppressed the Jews in the 1930s.

So did Valentinian III, probably. Vague connections does not a complicated ideology make, Ardoki. Remember, political repression is a proven and reliable political tool since the existence of the state.

But in the modern era, we are not suppose to be acting as such.

[Shofercia]

So did Valentinian III, probably. Vague connections does not a complicated ideology make, Ardoki. Remember, political repression is a proven and reliable political tool since the existence of the state.

But in the modern era, we are not suppose to be acting as such.

So where's the LGBTQIA+ version of Kristalnacht?