Russian Politics Thread: Добро пожаловать!

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Or that it reflect reality to such a degree of accuracy that it may as well be true.

Well, it doesn't so, no. Thinking the Russian people support liberals enough for said group to win an election is, frankly, so out of touch with Russians that it borders on delusional. This is a country where people morally equate liberalism and child molestation (e.g. liberast).

Why do you suppose I equate democracy with liberalism?

[The United Colonies of Earth]

Also, so the LDPR is a bunch of ultranationalist socialists...the communists are, well, Republicans with communist ideologies...and United Russia is just the most ardent lovers of Putin...and A Just Russia is the closest thing to a social democratic party with actual Duma seats.
Wow, I...just wow.
The first three almost seem similar, but they're really not.

[United Marxist Nations]

He might do it in a region or two, but he isn't particularly worried because the simple fact is that the opposition is so fragmented. This is not new in Russia, it is how every Party has ruled Russia since the 1917 revolution. The Communists didn't have most of the power in the civil war, but their opposition was so divided that it didn't really matter. As it stands, the only even remotely credible threat to Putin and his Party is the Communist Party. Even people who don't like UR will vote for Putin a lot.

Weird.
Sounds a lot like how I imagined PR elections to go in one of my fictional countries (except the leading party has to regularly form coalitions). The opposition parties all take a different attitude to how they act, but they can't claim enough power alone or together to coherently oppose the biggest party, so their strength is squandered.
Granted, the Social Democrats don't ballot-stuff, this is a country whose democratic traditions are from two centuries ago and not the end of the last one, but still...

Well, it doesn't so, no. Thinking the Russian people support liberals enough for said group to win an election is, frankly, so out of touch with Russians that it borders on delusional. This is a country where people morally equate liberalism and child molestation (e.g. liberast).

I find that equation to be delusional. Liberalism isn't pedo ideology, and someone needs to show them that.

1) There is an old story out of the Civil War; a reporter asked White General Deniken whether he was a Tsarist or a Republican, and he simply sighed saying "no matter how I answer, I will lose half of my army tomorrow."
Good video making light of the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWibQzsG-_o

2) It isn't saying that liberals are child molesters. It is saying that, in the '90's, liberals caused so much damage to the country that being a liberal is morally equivalent to being a child molester.

[United Marxist Nations]

Well, it doesn't so, no. Thinking the Russian people support liberals enough for said group to win an election is, frankly, so out of touch with Russians that it borders on delusional. This is a country where people morally equate liberalism and child molestation (e.g. liberast).

Why do you suppose I equate democracy with liberalism?

Well, if you don't think the liberals are secretly doing well, why do you think the current electoral results aren't accurate when they reflect in the opinion polls?

[United Marxist Nations]

KPRF is so anti-Putin they hardly participated in the 2011 protests.

Zyuganov likes him? Wow...why don't they just form a coalition government then? fuckin christ.

The Communist Party doesn't acknowledge the election's validity.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

Weird.
Sounds a lot like how I imagined PR elections to go in one of my fictional countries (except the leading party has to regularly form coalitions). The opposition parties all take a different attitude to how they act, but they can't claim enough power alone or together to coherently oppose the biggest party, so their strength is squandered.
Granted, the Social Democrats don't ballot-stuff, this is a country whose democratic traditions are from two centuries ago and not the end of the last one, but still...

I find that equation to be delusional. Liberalism isn't pedo ideology, and someone needs to show them that.

1) There is an old story out of the Civil War; a reporter asked White General Deniken whether he was a Tsarist or a Republican, and he simply sighed saying "no matter how I answer, I will lose half of my army tomorrow."
Good video making light of the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWibQzsG-_o

2) It isn't saying that liberals are child molesters. It is saying that, in the '90's, liberals caused so much damage to the country that being a liberal is morally equivalent to being a child molester.

1. All I saw was the situation degenerating into chaos and in the end only the band played on their stage while the room was deserted. They were speaking in Russian so I didn't get the context fully. Looked like a dinner party from the transition into USSR.
2. Oh, I get it. Yeah. We got discredited pretty badly back there.

[Geilinor]

That's probably what you say about the USSR - "there was a choice - support the Communists or gulag!"

Do I have to remind you that, in the last election, UR lost 77 seats?

Do I have to point out the fraud? http://observers.france24.com/en/20111206-russia-election-fraud-caught-video-ballot-stuffing-erasable-ink-putin-protests

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20111204/169324746.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16037975

[United Marxist Nations]

1) There is an old story out of the Civil War; a reporter asked White General Deniken whether he was a Tsarist or a Republican, and he simply sighed saying "no matter how I answer, I will lose half of my army tomorrow."
Good video making light of the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWibQzsG-_o

2) It isn't saying that liberals are child molesters. It is saying that, in the '90's, liberals caused so much damage to the country that being a liberal is morally equivalent to being a child molester.

1. All I saw was the situation degenerating into chaos and in the end only the band played on their stage while the room was deserted. They were speaking in Russian so I didn't get the context fully. Looked like a dinner party from the transition into USSR.
2. Oh, I get it. Yeah. We got discredited pretty badly back there.

1) The band were Bolshevik agents, causing a schism in the White Movement by playing God Save the Tsar, causing the White representatives to argue with each other (the soldiers stand in reverence, the woman shouts "All power to the Constitutional Assembly!", a Cossack shouts "down with monarchy!"). It is an old Soviet comedy.

2) Yes, it is a great insult to be called a liberal in many circles of Russian society. Certain Russians I know have actually cut off all contact with people they knew because they found out they were liberals.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

Zyuganov likes him? Wow...why don't they just form a coalition government then? fuckin christ.

The Communist Party doesn't acknowledge the election's validity.

I'm tempted to say they got no hope of gaining any power, then. UR is everywhere. Their real lack of an ideology so far and their association with Putin has helped shift things massively in their favor, along with the occasional ballot-stuffing. I guess it's for good luck, meh.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

1. All I saw was the situation degenerating into chaos and in the end only the band played on their stage while the room was deserted. They were speaking in Russian so I didn't get the context fully. Looked like a dinner party from the transition into USSR.
2. Oh, I get it. Yeah. We got discredited pretty badly back there.

1) The band were Bolshevik agents, causing a schism in the White Movement by playing God Save the Tsar, causing the White representatives to argue with each other (the soldiers stand in reverence, the woman shouts "All power to the Constitutional Assembly!", a Cossack shouts "down with monarchy!"). It is an old Soviet comedy.

2) Yes, it is a great insult to be called a liberal in many circles of Russian society. Certain Russians I know have actually cut off all contact with people they knew because they found out they were liberals.

1. Now I get it!
2. Sounds like half of the American political spectrum, only that half is now what 90% of an entire country's population.

[United Marxist Nations]

Do I have to remind you that, in the last election, UR lost 77 seats?

Do I have to point out the fraud? http://observers.france24.com/en/20111206-russia-election-fraud-caught-video-ballot-stuffing-erasable-ink-putin-protests

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20111204/169324746.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16037975

Fraud doesn't prove that they are actually losing the elections, and it certainly doesn't change that the opposition still has a voice and gains votes. There is a choice, regardless of fraud. If the election were that far off, then people wouldn't stand for it. The opinion polls were also relatively in-line with the results.

[Geilinor]

Do I have to point out the fraud? http://observers.france24.com/en/20111206-russia-election-fraud-caught-video-ballot-stuffing-erasable-ink-putin-protests

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20111204/169324746.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16037975

Fraud doesn't prove that they are actually losing the elections, and it certainly doesn't change that the opposition still has a voice and gains votes. There is a choice, regardless of fraud. If the election were that far off, then people wouldn't stand for it. The opinion polls were also relatively in-line with the results.

That doesn't erase the fraud and violations which occurred.

[United Marxist Nations]

1) The band were Bolshevik agents, causing a schism in the White Movement by playing God Save the Tsar, causing the White representatives to argue with each other (the soldiers stand in reverence, the woman shouts "All power to the Constitutional Assembly!", a Cossack shouts "down with monarchy!"). It is an old Soviet comedy.

2) Yes, it is a great insult to be called a liberal in many circles of Russian society. Certain Russians I know have actually cut off all contact with people they knew because they found out they were liberals.

1. Now I get it!
2. Sounds like half of the American political spectrum, only that half is now what 90% of an entire country's population.

Yeah, what a lot of people miss in UR's popularity is that there just plain isn't another really big opposition group. We are used to political blocs being relatively similar in size, but that just isn't the case in Russia. UR is essentially a coalition of people who aren't liberals but who think LDPR is too extreme and think KPRF is just being nostalgic. And then you have a few niche parties that get a little bit of the vote.

[Ghatawerpya]

2) It isn't saying that liberals are child molesters. It is saying that, in the '90's, liberals caused so much damage to the country that being a liberal is morally equivalent to being a child molester.

Clearly the liberals were 100% percent behind Gorbachev, like Putin. And didn't offer a more moderate approach to liberalization, unlike Yabloko.

[United Marxist Nations]

Fraud doesn't prove that they are actually losing the elections, and it certainly doesn't change that the opposition still has a voice and gains votes. There is a choice, regardless of fraud. If the election were that far off, then people wouldn't stand for it. The opinion polls were also relatively in-line with the results.

That doesn't erase the fraud and violations which occurred.

Of course, and there is fraud, definitely. But comparing them to the Soviet elections is a bit much. Even in the most non-biased Soviet election, the opposition got only 20% of the vote in total.

[United Marxist Nations]

2) It isn't saying that liberals are child molesters. It is saying that, in the '90's, liberals caused so much damage to the country that being a liberal is morally equivalent to being a child molester.

Clearly the liberals were 100% percent behind Gorbachev, like Putin. And didn't offer a more moderate approach to liberalization, unlike Yabloko.

From the talks I have with Russians I know (which, admittedly, is only like five or six), Yabloko is among the most hated parties in Russia.

[Geilinor]

2) Yes, it is a great insult to be called a liberal in many circles of Russian society. Certain Russians I know have actually cut off all contact with people they knew because they found out they were liberals.

Sounds like communism in America, then.

[United Marxist Nations]

2) Yes, it is a great insult to be called a liberal in many circles of Russian society. Certain Russians I know have actually cut off all contact with people they knew because they found out they were liberals.

Sounds like communism in America, then.

The main difference being that, for many, it is felt that liberalism has personally harmed them or taken something from them, even destroyed the country.

[Mahdistan]

It is very saddening to see him leave. He's done absolute wonders for Chechnya, and proved to an increasingly hostile Russia that a Muslim can co-exist and lead alongside others of different faiths. An Equal, if not better leader, than Putin, in my opinion.

He's also assassinated journalists and dissidents, built massive palaces with state funds, run one of the world's largest extortion rackets using his giant personal army, and apparently personally tortures his enemies to death. Kadyrov is more than a little bit problematic.

These have only been suggested by his opposition, which are all massive exaggerations. If anyone was being harmed by any of this, it was likely the oligarchs who'd rather profit from someone in Chechnya being in power who can't unify the people and cause another insurrection. There's absolutely no evidence of him getting up and shooting or torturing anyone on behalf of anyone else, the palaces haven't hardly put a dent in their funding and are popular in inspiring the people of a down-trodden province, and his personal army only 'extorts' criminals and terrorists.

[Jumalariik]

And have some rotten to the core hardliners running around?

Better than full economic collapse

Oh, yeah, I forgot you love it when Russians suffer

I never thought I would hear a Stalinist saying "you love it when Russians suffer."

#millionsofdeadrussiansfromdearleader

[The United Colonies of Earth]

1. Now I get it!
2. Sounds like half of the American political spectrum, only that half is now what 90% of an entire country's population.

Yeah, what a lot of people miss in UR's popularity is that there just plain isn't another really big opposition group. We are used to political blocs being relatively similar in size, but that just isn't the case in Russia. UR is essentially a coalition of people who aren't liberals but who think LDPR is too extreme and think KPRF is just being nostalgic. And then you have a few niche parties that get a little bit of the vote.

I'd argue for the evolution of an alternative that isn't either one, but with UR's success and the fuckup that liberalism had in the country, that could be a long way off in the future.

2) Yes, it is a great insult to be called a liberal in many circles of Russian society. Certain Russians I know have actually cut off all contact with people they knew because they found out they were liberals.

Sounds like communism in America, then.

Especially.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

Sounds like communism in America, then.

The main difference being that, for many, it is felt that liberalism has personally harmed them or taken something from them, even destroyed the country.

I can understand that completely.

[United Marxist Nations]

Better than full economic collapse

Oh, yeah, I forgot you love it when Russians suffer

I never thought I would hear a Stalinist saying "you love it when Russians suffer."

#millionsofdeadrussiansfromdearleader

>tfw the crude death rate during the last 5 years of Stalin's tenure is lower than Russia's crude death rate for most of the last 25 years

[Ghatawerpya]

Sounds like communism in America, then.

The main difference being that, for many, it is felt that liberalism has personally harmed them or taken something from them, even destroyed the country.

From my talks with people from certain areas of the post-USSR world Russian media enjoys accusing the EU and liberals of propagating homosexuality. I have every reason to believe the same narrative is used in Russia as well.

He's also assassinated journalists and dissidents, built massive palaces with state funds, run one of the world's largest extortion rackets using his giant personal army, and apparently personally tortures his enemies to death. Kadyrov is more than a little bit problematic.

These have only been suggested by his opposition, which are all massive exaggerations. If anyone was being harmed by any of this, it was likely the oligarchs who'd rather profit from someone in Chechnya being in power who can't unify the people and cause another insurrection. There's absolutely no evidence of him getting up and shooting or torturing anyone on behalf of anyone else, the palaces haven't hardly put a dent in their funding and are popular in inspiring the people of a down-trodden province, and his personal army only 'extorts' criminals and terrorists.

And that's why refugees from Chechnya still turn up in Europe, they were disgusted by the lies of their horrible political opposition.

[United Marxist Nations]

The main difference being that, for many, it is felt that liberalism has personally harmed them or taken something from them, even destroyed the country.

From my talks with people from certain areas of the post-USSR world Russian media enjoys accusing the EU and liberals of propagating homosexuality, I have every reason to believe the same narrative is active in Russia as well.

Being largely involved with the liberasts has definitely hurt the LGBT movement in Russia.