Should University Lectures Be Recorded?

[The Emerald World]

they would still receive feedback effect based on the grades they succeed or fail to earn, which (in theory) should reflect the amount of work and dedication they put into the class

I got straight As my computer science classes last year with practically zero effort. Grades are not an accurate depiction of effort or dedication. They're just indicators of how well one grasps a concept.

[Infected Mushroom]

I'm not sure why a professor should get angry when it is his/her job to provide information to help the students learn. If anything, I consider it a bit unprofessional.

Those comments on the video were actively damaging the professor's reputation.

if there are any claims that amount to defamation, the professor always has a course of action in the form of the courts as a plaintiff

[Fartsniffage]

The class hours are the class hours. I studied at a British university and you could maybe add extra things on but you can't take things away. And the attitude of "get in the seat and pay attention" was exactly the problem.

Things got easier in the third year after I was still passing and still asking for more support, but before that the attitude of "well just show up and do the work and you'll be fine" made my life hell. I don't see recorded lectures as a handout, I see them as a basic part of education in a university environment.

Can't speak for schools outside of my experience. I attended college here in the states, and given the wealthy of information that was available, the resources we could access, the study groups that were created, the hours set you could touch base with the professor, or get assistance from their TA ... really, there was very little excuse to not being able to get at least a passing grade, if not truly flourish. There are times when putting in the effort, and asking for help when you need really can be sufficient. I'm not the best student either, and I managed to balance it. The fact that you struggled does not set the scene for an overhaul any more than my experience states there is nothing wrong. I'm still not seeing a good solid argument on why info ought to be spoon-fed to students above and beyond what it already is. And hell, today? The computer systems? The Internet itself? Didn't have that. Didn't have the smart phones, the social media to ask for help and support, or all the rest. Explain to me again why, with all the added benefits, that school is actually harder now than it was then? I'm not seeing it.

Can't do it. I didn't have all that either. I did have a university email address and could submit essays on a floppy disc if I chose to but that was about it.

Stop assuming you're so much older DLN....

And given that we have all that and Open University was a thing in the 80's, can you give a good reason why students shouldn't be given every possible chance to succeed other than a nebulous dislike of laziness?

[Infected Mushroom]

they would still receive feedback effect based on the grades they succeed or fail to earn, which (in theory) should reflect the amount of work and dedication they put into the class

I got straight As my computer science classes last year with practically zero effort. Grades are not an accurate depiction of effort or dedication. They're just indicators of how well one grasps a concept.

then you must be particularly intelligent for the subject

that's fine, since a corollary objective is to transfer knowledge and it seems that you managed to learn the material

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with what it takes to teach, or the hours already involved in it ... but hey. This is pretty simple in the end. You want it recorded? Either record it yourself, or ask the professor if you can put a recording device up in front with them so it can be done more clearly. This is not difficult. If it's what you need, it's you taking the goram initiative to do what's necessary for you to succeed. You can upload it for sharing from there if you want, but it shouldn't be something you additionally require of the professor simply to cater to your preferences.

We had similar back in the day. There were these little handheld recording/playback devices, with the cute itty bitty tapes? People used them for a number of things - notes, voice memos for later, observations, recording talks, funerals, and yes, lectures.

Once again - get up off your backside and do what you need to ensure your own success. Don't rely on someone else doing it for you.

[Infected Mushroom]

The class hours are the class hours. I studied at a British university and you could maybe add extra things on but you can't take things away. And the attitude of "get in the seat and pay attention" was exactly the problem.

Things got easier in the third year after I was still passing and still asking for more support, but before that the attitude of "well just show up and do the work and you'll be fine" made my life hell. I don't see recorded lectures as a handout, I see them as a basic part of education in a university environment.

Can't speak for schools outside of my experience. I attended college here in the states, and given the wealthy of information that was available, the resources we could access, the study groups that were created, the hours set you could touch base with the professor, or get assistance from their TA ... really, there was very little excuse to not being able to get at least a passing grade, if not truly flourish. There are times when putting in the effort, and asking for help when you need really can be sufficient. I'm not the best student either, and I managed to balance it. The fact that you struggled does not set the scene for an overhaul any more than my experience states there is nothing wrong. I'm still not seeing a good solid argument on why info ought to be spoon-fed to students above and beyond what it already is. And hell, today? The computer systems? The Internet itself? Didn't have that. Didn't have the smart phones, the social media to ask for help and support, or all the rest. Explain to me again why, with all the added benefits, that school is actually harder now than it was then? I'm not seeing it.

So because it was hard for you, it should also be just as hard for everyone today?

We could be handing out more resources and opportunities across the board to maximise and facilitate learning but we won't do it because that would create generational unfairness. Sounds kind of silly.

[Uxupox]

Strategically? What's so strategic about turning on the TV or computer and watching the video about the lecture?

if you've already heard the lectures once in person, you have the option of listening to the whole thing again (for reinforcement) or for re-listening to portions you know are contained in the lectures for clarification/target-specific reinforcement

there's also a time management aspect to it; if you find yourself having to listen to 10 lectures last minute back to back, then you are likely to suffer from overload and be unable to utilize the information and the resource as well as someone who had more foresight and planning

Doubtful. Personally I watched a 5 minute video about cellulosic ethanol then went to do a presentation about it to my fellow colleagues in a theater and I scored the highest (There was 4 different classes combined to do this project. All individually) with a 97 %.

[Kannap]

The professor gives their students a scheduled time to come to class and absorb the knowledge being taught. They shouldn't have to waste time accommodating for students who wasted their time already by not showing up to the class time the professor has scheduled out of their day.

the professors wouldn't waste their time; when the recordings are played, the professors aren't mind controlled and forced to re-teach the material during their personal off hours

When a student schedules their courses. they assume the responsibility to attend their classes at the times that they scheduled their courses. Professors take the time out of their day to stick to this schedule and teach their material and students who decide to skip the class have actively made the decision to, unprofessionally, not stick to the schedule that they agreed to when registering for the course.

For the professor to record their lessons and upload these lessons online would be a waste of the professors time and quite unprofessional of the professor for not enforcing the class times that the students agreed to attend class during. A professor should not be forced to change their rules or policy when the students were actively made aware of said rules and policy at the beginning of the class term.

[Pan Asian Amercian Coalition]

It has to be up to the professor in question. Some may want to, others won't. Let them decide on a personal basis.

[Infected Mushroom]

I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with what it takes to teach, or the hours already involved in it ... but hey. This is pretty simple in the end. You want it recorded? Either record it yourself, or ask the professor if you can put a recording device up in front with them so it can be done more clearly. This is not difficult. If it's what you need, it's you taking the goram initiative to do what's necessary for you to succeed. You can upload it for sharing from there if you want, but it shouldn't be something you additionally require of the professor simply to cater to your preferences.

We had similar back in the day. There were these little handheld recording/playback devices, with the cute itty bitty tapes? People used them for a number of things - notes, voice memos for later, observations, recording talks, funerals, and yes, lectures.

Once again - get up off your backside and do what you need to ensure your own success. Don't rely on someone else doing it for you.

Why do you seem to be assuming that someone who resorts to using the recordings entirely, would be relying exclusively on someone else for their own learning?

Regardless of the method you do use, in the end you have to take charge of your learning in some way and you do have to put in some work and make some strategic decisions about learning

the important thing is to maximise the resources and the opportunities available to everyone without putting undue strain on the system; the punishing of lazy students was never a top objective of university, its not a penal system; its about maximising the tools and the resources available to all students

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

So because it was hard for you, it should also be just as hard for everyone today?

We could be handing out more resources and opportunities across the board to maximise and facilitate learning but we won't do it because that would create generational unfairness. Sounds kind of silly.

Didn't say it was hard for me, and thus I want everyone to 'suffer'. Not even close. Merely suggested that there are more methods students can take advantage of today. If anything, it ought to be easier than it was - hence the confusion on why, according to you, we ought to reward 'lazy students'.

[Uxupox]

Those comments on the video were actively damaging the professor's reputation.

if there are any claims that amount to defamation, the professor always has a course of action in the form of the courts as a plaintiff

He did actually go to court over it and the video in question and the comment section was used as evidence.

[Infected Mushroom]

if you've already heard the lectures once in person, you have the option of listening to the whole thing again (for reinforcement) or for re-listening to portions you know are contained in the lectures for clarification/target-specific reinforcement

there's also a time management aspect to it; if you find yourself having to listen to 10 lectures last minute back to back, then you are likely to suffer from overload and be unable to utilize the information and the resource as well as someone who had more foresight and planning

Doubtful. Personally I watched a 5 minute video about cellulosic ethanol then went to do a presentation about it to my fellow colleagues in a theater and I scored the highest (There was 4 different classes combined to do this project. All individually) with a 97 %.

Then I have to congratulate you.

[Fartsniffage]

So because it was hard for you, it should also be just as hard for everyone today?

We could be handing out more resources and opportunities across the board to maximise and facilitate learning but we won't do it because that would create generational unfairness. Sounds kind of silly.

Didn't say it was hard for me, and thus I want everyone to 'suffer'. Not even close. Merely suggested that there are more methods students can take advantage of today. If anything, it ought to be easier than it was - hence the confusion on why, according to you, we ought to reward 'lazy students'.

Because an educated population is vastly preferable to an uneducated population?

[Patridam]

Why? This is the type of bullshit attitude that made my life difficult at university. I would make it to class but for whatever reason my brain just doesn't absorb information before about 2pm. So I'd spend hours in the library trying to catch up on the knowledge that my classmates were getting just from being in the same lectures that I was in.

And I got my degree but it would have a hell of a lot easier if it weren't for such small-mindedness.

Then get help. There is supposed to be help available. Did you ever reach out to the professor? Did you explain to any counselors that you were having difficulties? Did you consider that perhaps you had overloaded yourself on class hours, and perhaps needed to take it slower so you could succeed?

There is nothing 'bullshit' about 'do what you can to get it done', nor 'if you are UNWILLING to put in the work - not unable but unwilling - then don't expect handouts'.

You probably weren't studying engineering if you can say all that with a straight face. Just looking at my sophomore year:

I went to almost all my classes - the few that I missed were one a month or so because of schedule conflicts.

But the classes I did go to; sometimes I didn't always learn what I suppose the teacher expected me to learn. There were classes at 8am, and I for hte life of me cannot absorb things that early, especially when homework kept me up until 2 AM the night before. Then, of course, there were classes at 9 PM in the evening, where the only thing keeping me awake was the dream of coffee when I got back home (so I could begin work on my assignments after having been in class all day). So no, I sometimes did not catch everything taught in class, even before I consider the quirks of teachers. I had a circuits teacher who spoke in such a thick indian accent you had to spend several seconds deciphering what he was saying each time he said anything, so by the time I figured out his first point he was on another. I had an obese statics teacher who stood right in front of things he wrote on the board, so after writing a problem for 5 minutes you only got a chance to copy things down for 30 seconds when he stepped aside. I had a differential equations teacher who had been doing it for 35 years and could do the math so quickly in his head he would write things on the board faster than you or I could copy them from a paper - and he erased and did three steps in a single line, taking many actions of simplification, such that I couldn't really comprehend the progression in my notes. In all these courses, my notes - when I was awake and coherent enough to take good ones - were still difficult or impossible to follow. So it would have helped ENORMOUSLY to be able to go online and see a recording of the lecture, and pause the video to actually get the proper progression, something nigh-impossible the first time around.

And don't throw the credit hour thing at me. I was taking the university specified course-load, exactly what I was supposed to take. I wasn't unwilling to do work; I wasn't unwilling to study. But there are only so many hours in a day (to do 68 problem physics assignments, five experiment lab reports, 8 dependent source ac circuits, 43 inverse laplace transforms, and 17 mass moments of inertia) , and you can only copy down notes so fast. I don't think its right for you to tell me that I am somehow incompetent if I cannot get everything the first time.

As for help - oh, that's rich. The closest thing we had to a savior, the engineering tutor (a man so overworked and underpaid it's not even funny) was summarily fired when the indian circuits professor and the differential equations teacher previously mentioned complained that he (the tutor) was showing us different methods - easier, still totally correct methods - to do the myriad of problems assigned to us. He was never replaced, and while our professors told us to "just come to my office hours, I'll help you", they were almost never there, and when they were, they only gave very vague "hints" lest they "spoon feed" us. The student tutors? They were students who had barley passed the courses the year prior, really no better qualified then we were.

[Infected Mushroom]

So because it was hard for you, it should also be just as hard for everyone today?

We could be handing out more resources and opportunities across the board to maximise and facilitate learning but we won't do it because that would create generational unfairness. Sounds kind of silly.

Didn't say it was hard for me, and thus I want everyone to 'suffer'. Not even close. Merely suggested that there are more methods students can take advantage of today. If anything, it ought to be easier than it was - hence the confusion on why, according to you, we ought to reward 'lazy students'.

There is no rewarding of lazy students in my proposal. The recordings are available to everyone, lazy students don't get any special benefit that no one else gets.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Why do you seem to be assuming that someone who resorts to using the recordings entirely, would be relying exclusively on someone else for their own learning?

Regardless of the method you do use, in the end you have to take charge of your learning in some way and you do have to put in some work and make some strategic decisions about learning

the important thing is to maximise the resources and the opportunities available to everyone without putting undue strain on the system; the punishing of lazy students was never a top objective of university, its not a penal system; its about maximising the tools and the resources available to all students

Again - what is your problem then? If students already CAN do what they need to ensure they get the best experience they can, your proposal does what? Takes it out of their hands and puts it back in the hands of the professor, thus invalidating a good portion of your argument about students taking control of their education and choices.

You may want to take a break and regather your thoughts. They seem to be slipping a bit and going willy nilly all over the place.

[Uxupox]

Then get help. There is supposed to be help available. Did you ever reach out to the professor? Did you explain to any counselors that you were having difficulties? Did you consider that perhaps you had overloaded yourself on class hours, and perhaps needed to take it slower so you could succeed?

There is nothing 'bullshit' about 'do what you can to get it done', nor 'if you are UNWILLING to put in the work - not unable but unwilling - then don't expect handouts'.

You probably weren't studying engineering if you can say all that with a straight face. Just looking at my sophomore year:

I went to almost all my classes - the few that I missed were one a month or so because of schedule conflicts.

But the classes I did go to; sometimes I didn't always learn what I suppose the teacher expected me to learn. There were classes at 8am, and I for hte life of me cannot absorb things that early, especially when homework kept me up until 2 AM the night before. Then, of course, there were classes at 9 PM in the evening, where the only thing keeping me awake was the dream of coffee when I got back home (so I could begin work on my assignments after having been in class all day). So no, I sometimes did not catch everything taught in class, even before I consider the quirks of teachers. I had a circuits teacher who spoke in such a thick indian accent you had to spend several seconds deciphering what he was saying each time he said anything, so by the time I figured out his first point he was on another. I had an obese statics teacher who stood right in front of things he wrote on the board, so after writing a problem for 5 minutes you only got a chance to copy things down for 30 seconds when he stepped aside. I had a differential equations teacher who had been doing it for 35 years and could do the math so quickly in his head he would write things on the board faster than you or I could copy them from a paper - and he erased and did three steps in a single line, taking many actions of simplification, such that I couldn't really comprehend the progression in my notes. In all these courses, my notes - when I was awake and coherent enough to take good ones - were still difficult or impossible to follow. So it would have helped ENORMOUSLY to be able to go online and see a recording of the lecture, and pause the video to actually get the proper progression, something nigh-impossible the first time around.

And don't throw the credit hour thing at me. I was taking the university specified course-load, exactly what I was supposed to take. I wasn't unwilling to do work; I wasn't unwilling to study. But there are only so many hours in a day (to do 68 problem physics assignments, five experiment lab reports, 8 dependent source ac circuits, 43 inverse laplace transforms, and 17 mass moments of inertia) , and you can only copy down notes so fast. I don't think its right for you to tell me that I am somehow incompetent if I cannot get everything the first time.

As for help - oh, that's rich. The closest thing we had to a savior, the engineering tutor (a man so overworked and underpaid it's not even funny) was summarily fired when the indian circuits professor and the differential equations teacher previously mentioned complained that he (the tutor) was showing us different methods - easier, still totally correct methods - to do the myriad of problems assigned to us. He was never replaced, and while our professors told us to "just come to my office hours, I'll help you", they were almost never there, and when they were, they only gave very vague "hints" lest they "spoon feed" us. The student tutors? They were students who had barley passed the courses the year prior, really no better qualified then we were.

Sounds like a pretty shitty university if it doesn't have competent tutors.

[Kannap]

Didn't say it was hard for me, and thus I want everyone to 'suffer'. Not even close. Merely suggested that there are more methods students can take advantage of today. If anything, it ought to be easier than it was - hence the confusion on why, according to you, we ought to reward 'lazy students'.

Because an educated population is vastly preferable to an uneducated population?

And there are plenty of opportunities for people to become educated. If they don't pursue these opportunities then that is their fault, they should not be rewarded above the students who actually take these opportunities.

[Fartsniffage]

Because an educated population is vastly preferable to an uneducated population?

And there are plenty of opportunities for people to become educated. If they don't pursue these opportunities then that is their fault, they should not be rewarded above the students who actually take these opportunities.

Listening to a lecture at 6pm rather than at 3pm is a reward? How?

[Patridam]

You probably weren't studying engineering if you can say all that with a straight face. Just looking at my sophomore year:

I went to almost all my classes - the few that I missed were one a month or so because of schedule conflicts.

But the classes I did go to; sometimes I didn't always learn what I suppose the teacher expected me to learn. There were classes at 8am, and I for hte life of me cannot absorb things that early, especially when homework kept me up until 2 AM the night before. Then, of course, there were classes at 9 PM in the evening, where the only thing keeping me awake was the dream of coffee when I got back home (so I could begin work on my assignments after having been in class all day). So no, I sometimes did not catch everything taught in class, even before I consider the quirks of teachers. I had a circuits teacher who spoke in such a thick indian accent you had to spend several seconds deciphering what he was saying each time he said anything, so by the time I figured out his first point he was on another. I had an obese statics teacher who stood right in front of things he wrote on the board, so after writing a problem for 5 minutes you only got a chance to copy things down for 30 seconds when he stepped aside. I had a differential equations teacher who had been doing it for 35 years and could do the math so quickly in his head he would write things on the board faster than you or I could copy them from a paper - and he erased and did three steps in a single line, taking many actions of simplification, such that I couldn't really comprehend the progression in my notes. In all these courses, my notes - when I was awake and coherent enough to take good ones - were still difficult or impossible to follow. So it would have helped ENORMOUSLY to be able to go online and see a recording of the lecture, and pause the video to actually get the proper progression, something nigh-impossible the first time around.

And don't throw the credit hour thing at me. I was taking the university specified course-load, exactly what I was supposed to take. I wasn't unwilling to do work; I wasn't unwilling to study. But there are only so many hours in a day (to do 68 problem physics assignments, five experiment lab reports, 8 dependent source ac circuits, 43 inverse laplace transforms, and 17 mass moments of inertia) , and you can only copy down notes so fast. I don't think its right for you to tell me that I am somehow incompetent if I cannot get everything the first time.

As for help - oh, that's rich. The closest thing we had to a savior, the engineering tutor (a man so overworked and underpaid it's not even funny) was summarily fired when the indian circuits professor and the differential equations teacher previously mentioned complained that he (the tutor) was showing us different methods - easier, still totally correct methods - to do the myriad of problems assigned to us. He was never replaced, and while our professors told us to "just come to my office hours, I'll help you", they were almost never there, and when they were, they only gave very vague "hints" lest they "spoon feed" us. The student tutors? They were students who had barley passed the courses the year prior, really no better qualified then we were.

Sounds like a pretty shitty university if it doesn't have competent tutors.

It's not like I didn't get into decent universities - hell, I was accepted to RPI. But this was the cheapest.

[Infected Mushroom]

Why do you seem to be assuming that someone who resorts to using the recordings entirely, would be relying exclusively on someone else for their own learning?

Regardless of the method you do use, in the end you have to take charge of your learning in some way and you do have to put in some work and make some strategic decisions about learning

the important thing is to maximise the resources and the opportunities available to everyone without putting undue strain on the system; the punishing of lazy students was never a top objective of university, its not a penal system; its about maximising the tools and the resources available to all students

Again - what is your problem then? If students already CAN do what they need to ensure they get the best experience they can, your proposal does what? Takes it out of their hands and puts it back in the hands of the professor, thus invalidating a good portion of your argument about students taking control of their education and choices.

You may want to take a break and regather your thoughts. They seem to be slipping a bit and going willy nilly all over the place.

My proposal increases the amount of resources for learning that are available to everyone; there's just no policy justification for curtailing or limiting that just to punish less motivated students.

We have a population that's paying a ton of money to participate in this system, we can do more to provide them with more opportunities so that we end up with a more educated population and people get more bang for their buck. The social benefits of the proposal far outweigh its alleged rewarding of lazy students (also, I still fail to see how lazy students are ''rewarded'' since the resource is available to all parties across the board, they don't get any special benefit).

[Uxupox]

Sounds like a pretty shitty university if it doesn't have competent tutors.

It's not like I didn't get into decent universities - hell, I was accepted to RPI. But this was the cheapest.

Like some people say "Lo barato te sale caro". Luckily the university that I go to is top notch. Tutors that do know what they were doing, professors that are experts on their field and while not cheap it's recognized as one of the best institutions in the state. Sometimes I'd have to pay from my own pocket to cover the tuition costs but luckily PELL cover mosts of it and extra lucky my GI Bill and tuition assistance covers the rest.

[Draconikus]

I like the idea.
I don't really get why people are against it.
It makes it easier for lazy students?
Well, sure, but so do revision guides and textbooks. They make it easier for _students_. As a whole.
It still requires a significant amount of effort to learn any degree level subject, and, if anything, learning without the interactive support of a tutor requires _more_ effort, so the only 'lazy' students would be the ones that don't put forth that effort... and I would expect that lack of effort to be reflected in their work, no matter how much study material is available to them.
The only problem I can imagine is when students who regularly fail to attend lectures and discussion sessions start taking up a professor's time for things which could easily have been covered in class. Not entirely sure how to prevent that, but I think charging them for the wasted time might be an idea.

[Uxupox]

I like the idea.
I don't really get why people are against it.
It makes it easier for lazy students?
Well, sure, but so do revision guides and textbooks. They make it easier for _students_. As a whole.
It still requires a significant amount of effort to learn any degree level subject, and, if anything, learning without the interactive support of a tutor requires _more_ effort, so the only 'lazy' students would be the ones that don't put forth that effort... and I would expect that lack of effort to be reflected in their work, no matter how much study material is available to them.
The only problem I can imagine is when students who regularly fail to attend lectures and discussion sessions start taking up a professor's time for things which could easily have been covered in class. Not entirely sure how to prevent that, but I think charging them for the wasted time might be an idea.

Yea let's add extra costs to the already huge tuition costs that chokes the student body.