Mass Shooting in California, 20 victims

[Ugatoo]

Yeah Catholic Irish bombing the Protestant English


Nothing to do with religion.

It's was far more complex than that. Religion really didn't have all that much to do with the Troubles, it was more about politics.

Tell me about it my family left Ireland in the 80's to escape the violence.

[Fartsniffage]

Do you have any friends that have them only for recreational use and would never use them for self defense?

Well in my country (Puerto Rico) gun laws are very strict. Though yes I have a friend regularly goes to the range and uses the weapon that the range owns for recreational use (As in have fun). The weapon he uses on the range is the gun that he technically loans to the range is the AR-15 that given to him by his late grandfather.

That doesn't answer the question.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I wasn't aware we were talking about you in particular, as the statements made were general statements applied to a broad category of inanimate objects as opposed to yourself.

Let's not pretend otherwise. Firearms were designed to kill things, and as the technology developed and you were actually able to hit what you were aiming at, people decided to do things like target shooing with them.

^ This

Yes, I like guns myself. But I just don't delude myself that guns are not weapons designed to kill. That's exactly what the fuck they were designed to do. That it has multiple purposes, like you would give a hammer multiple purposes? Nobody is denying that, I'm not. But just because you give something a personal purpose that doesn't mean the thing was invented with that particular purpose in mind.

[Ardoki]

The Irish Republican Army had nothing to do with Catholicism. Never did it claim to be acting due to or in favour of Catholicism (or any other type of Christianity). It's motivations and actions were entirely political, it wanted to achieve a united Ireland. Please stop making up lies.

I guess you are right about the Islamic State though.

Never knew the IRA was espousing both a theocracy and an united Ireland at the same time. But hey since this is the internet it must be true.

Where did I say the IRA supported a theocracy?

Since you had the nerve to put words into my mouth, please do have the courage to answer me.

[Greed and Death]

Do you have any friends that have them only for recreational use and would never use them for self defense?

Well in my country (Puerto Rico) gun laws are very strict. Though yes I have a friend regularly goes to the range and uses the weapon that the range owns for recreational use (As in have fun). The weapon he uses on the range is the gun that he technically loans to the range is the AR-15 that given to him by his late grandfather.

Sounds like the NRA needs to bring some lawsuits in PR.

[Ganos Lao]

Just took a gander at the scanner.

Apparently a "male with dark skin is all we have on this frequency" the all the policewoman could tell the policeman, who said he was heading towards what sounded like a school.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Nothing I love more then waking up to news of mass murder. Any suspects?

One of the suspects apparently is in custody, and there's a chase on a black SUV that may or may not be the one from the shooting.

Suspects name, probable cause? Anything been released?

[North Calaveras]

Let's not pretend otherwise. Firearms were designed to kill things, and as the technology developed and you were actually able to hit what you were aiming at, people decided to do things like target shooing with them.

^ This

Yes, I like guns myself. But I just don't delude myself that guns are not weapons designed to kill. That's exactly what the fuck they were designed to do. That it has multiple purposes, like you would give a hammer multiple purposes? Nobody is denying that, I'm not. But just because you give something a personal purpose that doesn't mean the thing was invented with that particular purpose in mind.

Indeed there are many guns designed not to be used to kill, like in the olympics, granted they are vapable but these guns were not made for that purpose.

[Mushet]

The police reportedly saw a man with Forest Camo, so I bet this isn't ISIL

Why not? Is Daesh incapable or incompetent enough of using military attire now?

Meh, it'd be odd for them to target San Bernadino of all places, it could happen but it's an odd target. Detroit is a target people would care about more, and Detroit isn't highly regarded.

[Uxupox]

Well in my country (Puerto Rico) gun laws are very strict. Though yes I have a friend regularly goes to the range and uses the weapon that the range owns for recreational use (As in have fun). The weapon he uses on the range is the gun that he technically loans to the range is the AR-15 that given to him by his late grandfather.

Sounds like the NRA needs to bring some law suits in PR.

We actually got a ruling back in July of this year that is supposedly gonna help in making gun laws more lax.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Let's not pretend otherwise. Firearms were designed to kill things, and as the technology developed and you were actually able to hit what you were aiming at, people decided to do things like target shooing with them.

Indeed.
And? This doesn't make all firearms still conform to that 'designed to kill things' anymore than it makes all rockets conform to the same standard.

Technology can change the uses of things and expand their purpose. Not much news there, it's something that's been happening for pretty much all of human history.

The only place 'firearms were designed to kill things' (and nothing else!) claims are appropriate is in discussions of the historical development of firearms in China back in whenever-the-hell. It bears zero relevance to the modern items descended from those 'first' firearms.

Like I said, a hammer is meant to be designed for nailing shit; that doesn't mean you can't give it another purpose like break shit.

However, just because you give it a purpose it doesn't change what it was designed for.

[Ganos Lao]

One of the suspects apparently is in custody, and there's a chase on a black SUV that may or may not be the one from the shooting.

Suspects name, probable cause? Anything been released?

There's gunshots on the scanner right now. At least what sounded like gunshots. Bearcat (armored vehicle) was requested.

One guy's down, "in the back of a car".

There's a gunfight going on right now.

[Irona]

Yeah Catholic Irish bombing the Protestant English


Nothing to do with religion.

It's was far more complex than that. Religion really didn't have all that much to do with the Troubles, it was more about politics.

Your right it is a hugely complex situation but religion was still at the heart of the conflict. Anybody who claims The Troubles were a solely religious conflict is obviously wrong, but you still have to recognise the part it played.

[Ardoki]

The Irish Republican Army had nothing to do with Catholicism. Never did it claim to be acting due to or in favour of Catholicism (or any other type of Christianity). It's motivations and actions were entirely political, it wanted to achieve a united Ireland. Please stop making up lies.

I guess you are right about the Islamic State though.

Yeah Catholic Irish bombing the Protestant English


Nothing to do with religion.

The IRA was fighting for a united Ireland. The bombings in England, were part of a campaign to turn English sentiment against the occupation of the north and lead to a British withdrawal so a united Ireland could be achieved.

Doesn't that sound like a much more logical explanation, than simply bombing people for religious differences?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Just took a gander at the scanner.

Apparently a "male with dark skin is all we have on this frequency" the all the policewoman could tell the policeman, who said he was heading towards what sounded like a school.

Well that's helpful

[Yumyumsuppertime]

San Bernadino local news is showing a suspect down in the street next to a pool of blood, with his gun on the sidewalk next to him. The car is across the street.

http://abc7.com/live/

[Ganos Lao]

Just took a gander at the scanner.

Apparently a "male with dark skin is all we have on this frequency" the all the policewoman could tell the policeman, who said he was heading towards what sounded like a school.

Well that's helpful

I just updated my findings. There's a gun fight right now. I'm listening to the scanner. Shots are going off in the background. One down outside the car, one reportedly down inside, a third's on the run.

[Fartsniffage]

Indeed.
And? This doesn't make all firearms still conform to that 'designed to kill things' anymore than it makes all rockets conform to the same standard.

Technology can change the uses of things and expand their purpose. Not much news there, it's something that's been happening for pretty much all of human history.

The only place 'firearms were designed to kill things' (and nothing else!) claims are appropriate is in discussions of the historical development of firearms in China back in whenever-the-hell. It bears zero relevance to the modern items descended from those 'first' firearms.

Like I said, a hammer is meant to be designed for nailing shit; that doesn't mean you can't give it another purpose like break shit.

However, just because you give it a purpose it doesn't change what it was designed for.

Well you could just have a gun with a muzzle velocity and bullet weight low enough not to pierce a body to a lethal depth. But that'd just be a BB gun.

[Uxupox]

I didn't know you believe Islamic State was representative of Islam. Sorry for my error.

I just made a broad statement about why I believed the Islamic State may have justified this attack, based on how some might interpret the Abrahamic texts.

Whether you like it or not, ISIS/ISIL is representative of Islam in the same way that the IRA, or LRA, is representative of Catholicism and Christian Orthodoxy.

It represents the misinformed, misguided, and extreme segments.

If I'm not mistaken the Daesh want to implement a regional theocracy correct?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Suspects name, probable cause? Anything been released?

There's gunshots on the scanner right now. At least what sounded like gunshots. Something about "a cat coming to us".

One guy's down, "in the back of a car".

There's a gunfight going on right now.

Got it, still ongoing. I'll be severely disappointed if this is related to an Islamist group.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

^ This

Yes, I like guns myself. But I just don't delude myself that guns are not weapons designed to kill. That's exactly what the fuck they were designed to do. That it has multiple purposes, like you would give a hammer multiple purposes? Nobody is denying that, I'm not. But just because you give something a personal purpose that doesn't mean the thing was invented with that particular purpose in mind.

Indeed there are many guns designed not to be used to kill, like in the olympics, granted they are vapable but these guns were not made for that purpose.

Indeed. Many other guns on the other hand are.

A gun can be designed not to kill (paintball guns, BB Guns, Olympic Guns and so on); but a gun is a gun is a gun doesn't fit the bill with these types of guns.

[Ganos Lao]

There's gunshots on the scanner right now. At least what sounded like gunshots. Something about "a cat coming to us".

One guy's down, "in the back of a car".

There's a gunfight going on right now.

Got it, still ongoing. I'll be severely disappointed if this is related to an Islamist group.

If it is related to one? This is just the beginning.

[Ardoki]

It's was far more complex than that. Religion really didn't have all that much to do with the Troubles, it was more about politics.

Your right it is a hugely complex situation but religion was still at the heart of the conflict. Anybody who claims The Troubles were a solely religious conflict is obviously wrong, but you still have to recognise the part it played.

It wasn't religious at all. Just because it appears to be religious, due to the affiliations of both sides, does not mean it is.

Where exactly, did the IRA claim they were fighting for religion? Where, did they justify their actions with religion? ... Nowhere! They were fighting for a united Ireland (you can tell by their name), they couldn't care less about the religious affiliations of people in Ireland. Several prominent nationalist leaders were Protestant, they bore no ill will towards the Protestants, only against the unionists.

[Alyakia]

http://puu.sh/lHc76/a1b3e07d08.jpg

the mythical black SUV

[Noraika]

Regardless of anything regarding gun laws...general violence related to crime isn't going to be solved by making gun laws lax or strict. If people still cannot survive by their own labour, or cannot otherwise meet their needs through legal means, illegal means will still have much more significant staying power. Most crime is economic.

In the case of these mass shootings, they may in the end become unavoidable with or without an armed populace. The only thing that can be done to prevent such incidents is to better raise awareness and expand treatment for the mentally deranged, or those who may become unstable, as well as doing whatever possible to ensure that such individuals cannot get weapons legally.