Santa Should be Banned

[Tokuopolis]

Have a watch of this video. I don't think Santa should be banned.

[Settrah]

The modern Santa Claus isn't even Saint Nicholas. He might be based on who Saint Nicholas was, but the actual Santa Claus character is derived from Sinterklaas.

Although then again, Sinterklaas was arguably based on Saint Nicholas. He is arguably based on Odin, who was a German mythological figure before Christianity even arrived in Europe. So if you really want to make the argument that Santa Claus isn't even a Christian figure, you could.

You know what, if Santa were banned, I wouldn't replace it with anything.

I feel that it would be more important to teach children the nature of a gift in how it's the agency of someone they love so they can gain a greater understanding of altruism and empathy. Gifts shouldn't be received "just because."

That would be ideal and most beneficial for making our society into a more ethical one.

I do find it a little ironic that someone in favour of destroying children's innocence, is displaying one of the most naive attitudes.

That is, assuming that all children have theory of mind, or that the social context is one that actually promotes unconditional unity and solidarity.

Well, then we should teach that too.

You... can't teach theory of mind.

[Dragonia Re Xzua]

IM, you forgot to switch accounts again.


Because it is very unlikely for two people to have identical views. There are two possibilities: Both accounts are of the same person or Reaper Indoctrination is at work on more that one person.

Reapers have intelligence.

They'd be able to properly source/support their claims far more easily than IM does or.... any of us does.
Fuck it, I want to debate with Harbinger!

Or you could stop using dishonourable tactics like social shaming, mockery, and conspiratorial accusations against individuals you don't agree with.

Or you could, I dunno, actually debate like the rest of us instead of using the "I'm begin attacked because I can't properly source my bullshit claims" routine, a routine that ends in the destruction of the practitioner's credibility. Then again, I did just take a gigantic leap in logic and say that IM followers/alt accounts have credibility to begin with.

[The Nihilistic view]

I'm so damaged because of Santa, how will I ever cope with the rest of my life?

[San Lumen]

So we ban Krampus too and the movie being made? Ban the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy and all fairy tales and myths and legends and shows like Grimm as well?

[Dragonia Re Xzua]

I'm so damaged because of Santa, how will I ever cope with the rest of my life?

You know what really damaged me? The Easter Rabbit. I hurt my back and knees all the time when I try to find those goddamn Easter Eggs.

[Marxist Nations]

Valystria and Infected Mushrooms same difference. I can't take you people seriously. Like did you guys have a bad experience with Saint Nick when you were young? Like did he scare you or something? My GOD people!!! There are a lot of problems in this world, and we're here talking about Santa being "immoral" and needs to be banned? ISIS, income inequality, health reform, gun control, and dumbass foreign policy decisions take a seat cause we gotta ban Santa! Get a fucking life!!! Damn people.

[Hurdegaryp]

The modern Santa Claus isn't even Saint Nicolas. He might be based on who Saint Nicholas was, but the actual Santa Claus character is derived from Sinterklaas.

Although then again, Sinterklaas was arguably based on Saint Nicholas. He is arguably based on Odin, who was a German mythological figure before Christianity even arrived in Europe. So if you really want to make the argument that Santa Claus isn't even a Christian figure, you could.

Saint Nicolas/Sinterklaas is very much a hybrid figure, composed of a wild variety of fascinating parts. And even though the tendency of the Dutch Sinterklaas to ride over roofs because his horse is secretly sky stallion Sleipnir, he is still Christian in very significant ways. Granted, Zwarte Piet (Black Peter) is black because of Odin's dedicated ravens, who acted as spies for this Germanic deity, but Zwarte Piet is also black because Saint Nicholas, according to the myths, once defeated a demon from Hell and made him his servant. The discussion currently going on in the Netherlands about the blackface aspect of Zwarte Piet is a side effect of how the whole Sinterklaas concept was actually modernized in the 19th century, hence why Sinterklaas tends to come from Spain (long story, based upon actual history) with his steam boat.

[Krjder]

I was just giving a few examples, I'm sure loved ones also join the throng of festive icons. They are certainly one of the reasons I enjoy Christmas.

Yes, but Santa is part of the package with all the symonolism. What's the point in putting your shoes out of no one's going to fill them with goodies? Who's going to put fill the stockings or add presents to the Christmas tree? What will happen to Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer and the charming coca-cola adverts?

We can get new symbols. Or resurrect old ones - How about Krampus the demon?
Do people even do that stockings thing outside of American films? Most people don't even have fireplaces - they don't have a mantelpiece on which to hang the stockings.
Parents put presents under the tree. Why be dishonest about it?
It's possible to tell stories, such as the story of Rudolf, without telling children that they're non-fiction.
Coca Cola can find a new mascot. How about an ice golem a snowman?

By removing Santa, you lose a lot of other symbolism. But my main question is, how does one go about banning Santa? For one thing, he is a Saint of the Roman Catholic Church, so he as a person cannot be banned.[...]

Santa Claus is not a Roman Catholic Saint.
Saint Nicholas, as recognised by the Roman Catholic Church, is not Santa Claus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas

To be honest, this is a pretty daft notion.

As I've said before, I'm not actually arguing in favour of banning Santa.

What's the point in resurrectmg new symbols when the old ones were perfectly suitable. I have a fireplace and a mantel, most of my friends and family have a mantel and they, for the most part fill their stockings likewise. Santa comes from St. Nicolas and is recognised as such by most Christian beliefs.

[Conscentia]

Have a watch of this video. I don't think Santa should be banned.

I can't really relate to that video. I never believed in Santa to begin with.

[New DeCapito]

The modern Santa Claus isn't even Saint Nicolas. He might be based on who Saint Nicholas was, but the actual Santa Claus character is derived from Sinterklaas.

Although then again, Sinterklaas was arguably based on Saint Nicholas. He is arguably based on Odin, who was a German mythological figure before Christianity even arrived in Europe. So if you really want to make the argument that Santa Claus isn't even a Christian figure, you could.

Saint Nicolas/Sinterklaas is very much a hybrid figure, composed of a wild variety of fascinating parts. And even though the tendency of the Dutch Sinterklaas to ride over roofs because his horse is secretly sky stallion Sleipnir, he is still Christian in very significant ways. Granted, Zwarte Piet (Black Peter) is black because of Odin's dedicated ravens, who acted as spies for this Germanic deity, but Zwarte Piet is also black because Saint Nicholas, according to the myths, once defeated a demon from Hell and made him his servant. The discussion currently going on in the Netherlands about the blackface aspect of Zwarte Piet is a side effect of how the whole Sinterklaas concept was actually modernized in the 19th century, hence why Sinterklaas tends to come from Spain (long story, based upon actual history) with his steam boat.

Damn, your Saint Nicholas is bad ass. I'd make a guy a saint if he had a demon servant too.

[Immoren]

Yuletide.
It should be called more commonly as Yuletide in modern English.

Possibly one of the most awkward words ever created.

How come?

[Conscentia]

What's the point in resurrectmg new symbols when the old ones were perfectly suitable. I have a fireplace and a mantel, most of my friends and family have a mantel and they, for the most part fill their stockings likewise.

I was just suggesting a possibility.
There's no reason why you couldn't continue to use the symbolism without lying to children.

Santa comes from St. Nicolas and is recognised as such by most Christian beliefs.

Saint Nicholas' generosity contributed to the origin of the myth of Santa, but to say that 'Santa = Saint Nicholas' is at best extremely inaccurate.

[Immoren]

So we ban Krampus too and the movie being made? Ban the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy and all fairy tales and myths and legends and shows like Grimm as well?

Krampus has already been taken care of.

[Calimama]

Okay, how about a vote? All in favor of not banning Santa Claus say aye.

[Hurdegaryp]

Have a watch of this video. I don't think Santa should be banned.

I can't really relate to that video. I never believed in Santa to begin with.

A NationStates forum member convinced me to watch a video that was actually quite pleasant and somewhat enlightening to watch. Today is a decent day.

[Conscentia]

So we ban Krampus too and the movie being made? Ban the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy and all fairy tales and myths and legends and shows like Grimm as well?

Krampus has already been taken care of.

But now who'll eat the naughty children before they spoil Christmas?

[Conscentia]

Okay, how about a vote? All in favor of not banning Santa Claus say I.

It's supposed to be 'aye' not 'I'.

[Pohan-Vor]

Nodern version of Santa (not the historical one) is stupid as shit and teaches kids to do things for material gain. However, let them have their fun and leave some hints and stop protecting them from the Truth when they get to a certain age, and while they are weak you should entangle them into the Faith and prevent them from falling into the clutches of heresy and infidelity.

Nah, let the poor bastard be, he only has fans for a few years at a time before he get's ditched and picks up new fans almost at the same time. He probably feels more used than a whore.

He also distributes presents to the entire world every year. Satan is a Commie!

He's clearly Satan trying to bribe children into worshipping him and killing their neighbours.

Stop, I'm laughing too hard!

[Lipnitia]

First, I thought this said 'Satan should be banned' and I was like 'okay…', but then I realized what it actually says and immediately came here to write this to entertain you although this is completely irrelevant to the topic, meaning people will ignore this post and interact with all except me and drown out my posts, unless I post something reasonably on-topic.

[Immoren]

Krampus has already been taken care of.

But now who'll eat the naughty children before they spoil Christmas?

I don't know. I just work here.

[Hurdegaryp]

But now who'll eat the naughty children before they spoil Christmas?

I don't know. I just work here.

There is never just one Krampus. Krampus, like sheep, is singular and plural at the same time.

[The Great state of Atlantis]

There is a number of people who state that the Zwarte Piet character should be banned in the Netherlands as they deem it to be racist. How's that for controversy. For those of you who don't know what the character looks like:

(Image) No, it's not a joke!

So.. how is that racist, taking into account that the Netherlands does not have a blackface tradition ?
Are watermelons and chickens also racist symbols in every country on the planet, just because Americans see them that way ?

Well, first of all, I never stated that I agree with the idea of banning Zwarte Piet, as the Dutch indeed don't have a blackface tradition and the character isn't in any way associated with blackface by the Dutch themselves. One might argue that in the (distant) past, the character was indeed portrayed in a fashion we might deem racist today, however, over time it appears that it has evolved away from any racist tendencies. Still, some people deem its appearance to hearken back to colonialism, even though it's a stupid thought, as the inhabitants of the former colonies celebrate it as well and not only do they dress themselves up but they also use make up in order to make themselves even blacker than they already are. And for the record: I love to eat watermelon during the summer and I like my occasional fried chicken. Does that make me a racist too? Ban KFC! They spread racist symbols! Ban the colonel! He was an old redneck! Desecrate his tomb!

[Conscentia]

But now who'll eat the naughty children before they spoil Christmas?

I don't know. I just work here.

Could call the Devil. It's 666, right? What's the charge for a call to Hell these days? Is it still a lamb sacrifice for a two minute call?

[MERIZoC]

So we ban Krampus too and the movie being made? Ban the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy and all fairy tales and myths and legends and shows like Grimm as well?

Probably.