Santa Should be Banned

[Omega America II]

But it can also teach them it is better to give than to get.

I find it funny that people are actually debating the merits of Santa Claus, as if that has any bearing on whether or not it's okay to restrict an individual's personal beliefs.

I know right.

[Republic of the Cristo]

What no body seems to realize on this thread is, kids stop believing Santa eventually. Around 8 we realize its just our parents giving the presents. So, why should Santa be banned?

[Gim]

But it can also teach them it is better to give than to get.

I find it funny that people are actually debating the merits of Santa Claus, as if that has any bearing on whether or not it's okay to restrict an individual's personal beliefs.

I'm pretty sure nearly all of us object to the OP.

[Conscentia]

But it can also teach them it is better to give than to get.

I find it funny that people are actually debating the merits of Santa Claus, as if that has any bearing on whether or not it's okay to restrict an individual's personal beliefs.

Firstly, I wasn't even remotely debating whether it's okay to restrict personal beliefs.

Secondly, as you've brought it up... We have, as a society, already decided that it's okay to regulate people's beliefs.
We systematically attempt to control everyone's personal beliefs every day. eg. Parents raise their children to share their values, and schools try to instil values and teach information which would contradict many beliefs such as intelligent falling or intelligent design. Peer pressure also imposes values and beliefs upon people.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

NSG has gotten a serious fungal infection by the looks of this thread.

[Gim]

NSG has gotten a serious fungal infection by the looks of this thread.

I'm pretty sure this is just a one-time thing....hopefully.

[Calimama]

Yes, wait no...wait did I hear you correctly? ban santa? for what purpose?...because it's a lie and I hate it. Okay, so by your logic...we should ban telling your kids that they will get ice cream after school? or...you'll become the president one day? seriously...most kids know that santa ins't real by the time that they have some sort of common sense...I mean really? I found out santa wasn't real when I was like six or something, and you know what? I didn't fucking give a shit...I still got presents and it didn't matter to me if some fat dude with a beard delivered it. I see no reason to ban a holiday icon.

[Immoren]

Yes, wait no...wait did I hear you correctly? ban santa? for what purpose?...because it's a lie and I hate it. Okay, so by your logic...we should ban telling your kids that they will get ice cream after school? or...you'll become the president one day? seriously...most kids know that santa ins't real by the time that they have some sort of common sense...I mean really? I found out santa wasn't real when I was like six or something, and you know what? I didn't fucking give a shit...I still got presents and it didn't matter to me if some fat dude with a beard delivered it. I see no reason to ban a holiday icon.

Purpose of banning Santa is to prevent Sun rising on the first new year morning. *nods*

[Bermon]

I find it funny that people are actually debating the merits of Santa Claus, as if that has any bearing on whether or not it's okay to restrict an individual's personal beliefs.

Firstly, I wasn't even remotely debating whether it's okay to restrict personal beliefs.

Secondly, as you've brought it up... We have, as a society, already decided that it's okay to regulate people's beliefs.
We systematically attempt to control everyone's personal beliefs every day. eg. Parents raise their children to share their values, and schools try to instil values and teach information which would contradict many beliefs such as intelligent falling or intelligent design. Peer pressure also imposes values and beliefs upon people.

Never said you wanted to restrict personal beliefs.

And yes, we as society try to control the beliefs of others, we don't like it when people see things differently than us. But I am talking about the Government, the United States was founded on the Constitution, a doctrine which upholds freedom of belief. There is no reason to infringe upon a constitutional right because Santa Claus "sets a bad example" or is the result of "bad parenting."

[Glorious KASSRD]

No, just no. As I (and others) have said on several of Infected Mushroom's threads, just because we disagree with something doesn't mean it should be banned.

[Diopolis]

[snark]Of course Santa should be banned. He feasts on obviously unhealthy food(milk and cookies) while obviously overweight, engages in extreme sports such as chimney jumping without a helmet, and whips his reindeer instead of fostering an egalitarian spirit of cooperation with them.[/snark]

[Calimama]

Yes, wait no...wait did I hear you correctly? ban santa? for what purpose?...because it's a lie and I hate it. Okay, so by your logic...we should ban telling your kids that they will get ice cream after school? or...you'll become the president one day? seriously...most kids know that santa ins't real by the time that they have some sort of common sense...I mean really? I found out santa wasn't real when I was like six or something, and you know what? I didn't fucking give a shit...I still got presents and it didn't matter to me if some fat dude with a beard delivered it. I see no reason to ban a holiday icon.

Purpose of banning Santa is to prevent Sun rising on the first new year morning. *nods*

But no, let's go further...let's just ban all Christmas cheer...that will surely get the point across.

[High Melchior]

I wholeheartedly agree with such sensible and logical ban on Santa Claus. No, really, I sincerely agree on all accounts about banning such fictional character from being uttered. We should enforce such ban with an iron fist that knows no legal bounds. Family members should report if any other family-member discusses Santa Claus around the children. Mall Santas and those Salvation Army Santas on sidewalk corners should be imprisoned in labor camps. We then should burn anything that relates to Santa Claus {like those Holiday Tim Allen movies} in massive bonfires. Any young kids who believe in Santa Claus should be sent to reeducation camps.


. . . Out of all the issues currently going on you complain about Santa.

[Bermon]

This is only a good idea if you want to plunge your Nation into civil unrest and incite rebellion.

[Alvecia]

This thread isn't dead yet?

Hush, we're having fun.

[Mike the Progressive]

You know who else thought Santa should be banned? Hitler.

[Forsher]

A) He isn't even the Santa equivalent
B) It's actually not discriminatory. Some may call it racist, other would disagree, but in the depiction of such a character, in no way are they treating anyone different based on their race.

So black face isn't racist?

What cultural framework are you approaching the question from?

I didn't realize December was a summer month.

Yeah, that's your problem.

Nice pseudo-trollnaming by the way.

Immoral and criminal? See, only one of these ideas has been substantiated. After all, it's fairly difficult to construe Santa as being out of whack with moral ideas. I mean, this is a dude who is supposed to reward the good (which is nice) and punish the bad (commendable). In fact, it's even better than that: he does both of these things in order to bring about, er, conformity with accepted social standards of behaviour (it's not "eye for an eye" or "4 consecutive life sentences" style punishment). On the other hand, lots of people talk about slavery, mistreatment of animals so there's that.

I think he pays the elves.

Good point.

The OP's conception of Santa is completely screwball. I mean, I was think of that "Prep and Landing" thing when I wrote science-fictiony remark, but you've also got those The Santa Clause films. Yet, you also get things like the Hogfather or Narnia where Father Christmas/parodies thereof (although parody isn't quite the right word for the Hogfather... I can't think of the right one) revel in the magical side of it. It is almost as if children are exposed to an enormous variety of different depictions (maybe some are slavery inclined, others a kindly equal opportunities employers) and, indeed, are invited to come up with their own versions. In a note not unrelated to the above two quotes there is the likes of these as well. Hell, I've seen blue skinned, vampire Santas (or was the outfit just blue? I forget).

If it's meant to be a joke, then it only works if you swing on something which works as a joke. The criminal stuff, that's joke material. The slavery stuff, that's joke material. When people, myself included, have just replaced Santa with words/ideas/characters like God it's either serious, a terrible joke or poor satire (possibly misplaced if the object is the likes of the "ban boxing thread).

If Santa is a stalker, so is Jesus. We obviously need to put out a warrant to arrest Jesus as soon as the 2nd coming happens.

I'm fairly certain bringing people back to life, even if it was maybe yourself, counts as practising medicine without a licence: arrest God.

Clearly Santa should be replaced with the Hogfather.

Yes, and we need an anthropomorphic personification to be Death, and Death should occasionally give up his job to work on a farm...
The Discworld doesn't make such a good real world.

I'm not sure Immoren was suggesting that we should replace our fictional Santa with a real Hogfather...

Your trolling right?

And, you're spamming (it's the subclass of spam known here as "trollnaming").

But it can also teach them it is better to give than to get.

No it can't. The children aren't made to give gifts - they're just given gifts.

Maybe but then there's this. It depends, then, entirely on what narratives you pay attention to. IT has always seemed to me that you give and receive (possibly not in proportion), but as I pointed out before I cannot recall when I was very young so it is entirely possible that this is a false narrative based on a memory that doesn't stretch back far enough,

Now, that being said, there is the following from Margot Finn's "Men's things: Masculine possession in the consumer revolution".

Viewed from the vantage point of their consumer activities, James Woodforde,William Holland
and Robert Sharp appear to exemplify the acquisitive impulses unleashed by the modern
consumer and industrial revolutions. But their journals,as well as the diary of the Sussex shop- keeper Thomas Turner,also reveal men’s participation in a second, complementary tier of acquisition,
one focused on a constant exchange of gifts between and among patrons, clients, customers, friends, neighbours and family members.

...

The divergent gifting practices and philoso- phies elaborated by Turner, Woodforde and Holland, on the one hand, and by Sharp, on the other, are especially suggestive in this regard. To the earlier diarists, the dependence, sociability
and mutuality ideally fostered among persons through the voluntary exchange of things were
constructive social forces, while to Sharp – determined to act ‘as a free agent’ in his village –
gifts exchanged outside the family circle instead Ž figured as onerous obligations to artificial
systems of status and hierarchy.

My interpretation is that the giving of gifts creates obligations etc. At least, that's what I took from this when I read it the first time around and I cannot be bothered reading it through again entirety.

What no body seems to realize on this thread is, kids stop believing Santa eventually. Around 8 we realize its just our parents giving the presents. So, why should Santa be banned?

I imagine others made this point before me, and I made it before you. Follow the post chain in my response to USS Monitor.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

Santa is a patriarchal construct that conditions society to accept the invasion of their private lives and homes by white men and view this as beneficial.

When a white man breaks into your house it's Christmas
When a black man breaks into your house you're in danger.

Jesus Christ, who performed your lobotomy?

[Merish Isles]

Yes, wait no...wait did I hear you correctly? ban santa? for what purpose?...because it's a lie and I hate it. Okay, so by your logic...we should ban telling your kids that they will get ice cream after school? or...you'll become the president one day? seriously...most kids know that santa ins't real by the time that they have some sort of common sense...I mean really? I found out santa wasn't real when I was like six or something, and you know what? I didn't fucking give a shit...I still got presents and it didn't matter to me if some fat dude with a beard delivered it. I see no reason to ban a holiday icon.

Purpose of banning Santa is to prevent Sun rising on the first new year morning. *nods*

... Yes. That settles this. No one can beat a Pratchet-based argument.

[Alvecia]

Hush, we're having fun.

Yes mommy.

Good....person? Robot? Dog?

Good thing.

[Calimama]

You know who else thought Santa should be banned? Hitler.

He actually didn't...

[Mike the Progressive]

You know who else thought Santa should be banned? Hitler.

He actually didn't...

Um he actually did. I have a Masters in History. Granted my focus was on early colonial American history, but still.

[Alvecia]

He actually didn't...

Um he actually did. I have a Masters in History. Granted my focus was on early colonial American history, but still.

Meh, basically the same thing.

[Calimama]

He actually didn't...

Um he actually did. I have a Masters in History. Granted my focus was on early colonial American history, but still.

I need to stop believing what Google tells me...

[Greed and Death]

My view shall is summed up in a South Park video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Og0dhr35y0