Santa Should be Banned

[Ugatoo]

I don't really see how it causes a problem. A kid matures and eventually learns the truth anyways. No harm is really done.

Plus, I mean, it's meant to kinda give kids something to believe in, something to make them behave and be happy. Really, banning it would be breaking people's right to believe in what they wish.

I mean if the big scary imaginary man in the clouds can't control kids than maybe the imaginary fat guy would supports commercialism will.

[Omega America II]

Plus, I mean, it's meant to kinda give kids something to believe in, something to make them behave and be happy. Really, banning it would be breaking people's right to believe in what they wish.

I mean if the big scary imaginary man in the clouds can't control kids than maybe the imaginary fat guy would supports commercialism will.

It's not really meant to control them, it can make them be nicer, which I think could go a long way in life.

[Infected Mushroom]

Is believing in Santa Claus really such a threat to society and to a child's health that it necessitates violating an individual's most basic rights? "Santa Claus sets a bad example so lets ban him outright", that's like banning Thanksgiving because it promotes gluttony. You're talking about throwing the constitution out the window, I am pretty sure that would have greater consequences than allowing children to believe in Santa. Why not focus on banning something that will actually benefit the populace like getting rid of cigarettes?

This is all just so ridiculous. Talk about excessive!

A basic right to lie to your children ought not be socially recognized nor sanctioned

[Gim]

I don't really see how it causes a problem. A kid matures and eventually learns the truth anyways. No harm is really done.

Plus, I mean, it's meant to kinda give kids something to believe in, something to make them behave and be happy. Really, banning it would be breaking people's right to believe in what they wish.

it is always essential for humans to have some kind of culture within their lives.

[Ugatoo]

I mean if the big scary imaginary man in the clouds can't control kids than maybe the imaginary fat guy would supports commercialism will.

It's not really meant to control them, it can make them be nicer, which I think could go a long way in life.

Or you could, y'know parent them...

Worked for me and billions of other people.

[The first Galactic Republic]

How did these people find out that they're so upset about it even years later?

[Omega America II]

Is believing in Santa Claus really such a threat to society and to a child's health that it necessitates violating an individual's most basic rights? "Santa Claus sets a bad example so lets ban him outright", that's like banning Thanksgiving because it promotes gluttony. You're talking about throwing the constitution out the window, I am pretty sure that would have greater consequences than allowing children to believe in Santa. Why not focus on banning something that will actually benefit the populace like getting rid of cigarettes?

This is all just so ridiculous. Talk about excessive!

A basic right to lie to your children ought not be socially recognized nor sanctioned

But it can help kids become more appreciative and nicer, and it gives something for the kids to believe in that could make them happier.

[Immoren]

Is believing in Santa Claus really such a threat to society and to a child's health that it necessitates violating an individual's most basic rights? "Santa Claus sets a bad example so lets ban him outright", that's like banning Thanksgiving because it promotes gluttony. You're talking about throwing the constitution out the window, I am pretty sure that would have greater consequences than allowing children to believe in Santa. Why not focus on banning something that will actually benefit the populace like getting rid of cigarettes?

This is all just so ridiculous. Talk about excessive!

A basic right to lie to your children ought not be socially recognized nor sanctioned

They need to start learning to believe in little lies, so they can accept big ones later.

[Infected Mushroom]

A basic right to lie to your children ought not be socially recognized nor sanctioned

But it can help kids become more appreciative and nicer, and it gives something for the kids to believe in that could make them happier.

there are ways to do so without lying

if you have to lie to instill you children with these positive attributes, then that just makes you a poor parent

[Omega America II]

But it can help kids become more appreciative and nicer, and it gives something for the kids to believe in that could make them happier.

there are ways to do so without lying

if you have to lie to instill you children with these positive attributes, then that just makes you a poor parent

It can help, using this can help them further, not just from normal parenting, but this could help them be nicer, maybe more than normal parenting without telling them about Santa Claus. There is no harm in doing it. You would be lying, but it's a tradition that many people have grown on.

[Conscentia]

A basic right to lie to your children ought not be socially recognized nor sanctioned

But it can help kids become more appreciative and nicer, and it gives something for the kids to believe in that could make them happier.

It leads to the expectation of gifts - that is the opposite of becoming more appreciative.
If the parents were honest about being the source of the gifts, then maybe they'd appreciate the parents - but that's not what happens. Instead children expect some magic man with endless resources will provide whatever they want.

[Kraylandia]

Don't be silly.

[The Great state of Atlantis]

Dropping Santa... Grinch much?

[Omega America II]

But it can help kids become more appreciative and nicer, and it gives something for the kids to believe in that could make them happier.

It leads to the expectation of gifts - that is the opposite of becoming more appreciative.

But it can also teach them it is better to give than to get.

[Immoren]

Might as well lay down direct quote I tried to imply on...

“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"
MY POINT EXACTLY.”

[Utceforp]

The cultural custom of Santa Claus is unethical and counterproductive to the greater good. It is not only wrong to teach children to believe in the existence of a fictional character, it sets up an unhealthy mindset lacking in skepticism. But more concerningly, an immoral and criminal character is being glorified as a benevolent figure of goodness. A character who spies on people without their knowledge or consent (stalking), a character who breaks into people's houses (breaking and entering).

Some may handwave this criminal behaviour away by saying Santa gives gifts. But it's a cruel lie. A cruel lie that normalizes the act of parents lying to their own children. Surely it would be more healthy for children to be aware of having recieved gifts from their parents than to be told it came from a stalker with a habit of breaking into people's houses at night. This cultural custom skews the moral compass of children by teaching them to be good for the sake of a reward, normalizes lying, promotes an unhealthy mindset detached from fact-checking, and glorifies an individual who would be despised if anyone else were to partake in those criminal actions like stalking and breaking and entering.

We can celebrate the holidays without Santa in it. The cultural practice of Santa Claus should be done away with, perhaps going so far as a ban if that's what it takes. Thoughts?

Wait, this isn't an Infected Mushroom thread?

[Immoren]

The cultural custom of Santa Claus is unethical and counterproductive to the greater good. It is not only wrong to teach children to believe in the existence of a fictional character, it sets up an unhealthy mindset lacking in skepticism. But more concerningly, an immoral and criminal character is being glorified as a benevolent figure of goodness. A character who spies on people without their knowledge or consent (stalking), a character who breaks into people's houses (breaking and entering).

Some may handwave this criminal behaviour away by saying Santa gives gifts. But it's a cruel lie. A cruel lie that normalizes the act of parents lying to their own children. Surely it would be more healthy for children to be aware of having recieved gifts from their parents than to be told it came from a stalker with a habit of breaking into people's houses at night. This cultural custom skews the moral compass of children by teaching them to be good for the sake of a reward, normalizes lying, promotes an unhealthy mindset detached from fact-checking, and glorifies an individual who would be despised if anyone else were to partake in those criminal actions like stalking and breaking and entering.

We can celebrate the holidays without Santa in it. The cultural practice of Santa Claus should be done away with, perhaps going so far as a ban if that's what it takes. Thoughts?

Wait, this isn't an Infected Mushroom thread?

To the everyone's great surprise

[Conscentia]

It leads to the expectation of gifts - that is the opposite of becoming more appreciative.

But it can also teach them it is better to give than to get.

No it can't. The children aren't made to give gifts - they're just given gifts.

[Omega America II]

But it can also teach them it is better to give than to get.

No it can't. The children aren't made to give gifts - they're just given gifts.

So, you agree with banning a tradition many people look forward to doing each year?

[The Great state of Atlantis]

There is a number of people who state that the Zwarte Piet character should be banned in the Netherlands as they deem it to be racist. How's that for controversy. For those of you who don't know what the character looks like:

No, it's not a joke!

[Conscentia]

No it can't. The children aren't made to give gifts - they're just given gifts.

So, you agree with banning a tradition many people look forward to doing each year?

Firstly, I never advocated banning Santa. In-fact, I essentially stated the opposite when I gave my response to the thread.
viewtopic.php?p=26875288#p26875288
Secondly, People can give gifts without Santa. (And in-fact they do with adults. They only lie to children - which just leads to children not appreciating where the gifts came from.)

[Bermon]

It leads to the expectation of gifts - that is the opposite of becoming more appreciative.

But it can also teach them it is better to give than to get.

I find it funny that people are actually debating the merits of Santa Claus, as if that has any bearing on whether or not it's okay to restrict an individual's personal beliefs.

[Arekeo]

I can't tell if this is a legitimate argument or not. Is this claim truly serious?

[Omega America II]

So, you agree with banning a tradition many people look forward to doing each year?

Firstly, I never advocated banning Santa. In-fact, I essentially stated the opposite when I gave my response to the thread.
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p26875288
Secondly, People can give gifts without Santa. (And in-fact they do with adults. They only lie to children - which just leads to children not appreciating where the gifts came from.)

I stand corrected.

[Utceforp]

There is a number of people who state that the Zwarte Piet character should be banned in the Netherlands as they deem it to be racist. How's that for controversy. For those of you who don't know what the character looks like:

(Image) No, it's not a joke!

Identifying racism

Yep, it's racist.