Santa Should be Banned

[The Nuclear Fist]

I was really surprised to find out this wasn't an IM thread.

[USS Monitor]

Immoral and criminal? See, only one of these ideas has been substantiated. After all, it's fairly difficult to construe Santa as being out of whack with moral ideas. I mean, this is a dude who is supposed to reward the good (which is nice) and punish the bad (commendable). In fact, it's even better than that: he does both of these things in order to bring about, er, conformity with accepted social standards of behaviour (it's not "eye for an eye" or "4 consecutive life sentences" style punishment). On the other hand, lots of people talk about slavery, mistreatment of animals so there's that.

I think he pays the elves.

In terms of the criminality, it's less stalking and more "knowing". This is particularly true if you go for less science-fictiony interpretations of Santa and the more fantastical ones: the naughty and nice lists sometime write themselves (hmm, a bit like the Discworld Death's library).

If Santa is a stalker, so is Jesus. We obviously need to put out a warrant to arrest Jesus as soon as the 2nd coming happens.

[Vassenor]

I didn't realize December was a summer month. I guess it never ends here.

Loving the Northern Hemisphere-centric narrative here.

[Obexer]

Contrary to popular belief, Santa is actually the overseer of a gulag in the far north of Siberia. The elves are all his political prisoners who are short fron malnourishment. The "presents" are actually soviet mind control devices that turn our children in to little red soldiers. We should, of course, ban Santa.

[Ugatoo]

I didn't realize December was a summer month. I guess it never ends here.

hurr durr le 4chan meme

[Infected Mushroom]

Contrary to popular belief, Santa is actually the overseer of a gulag in the far north of Siberia. The elves are all his political prisoners who are short fron malnourishment. The "presents" are actually soviet mind control devices that turn our children in to little red soldiers. We should, of course, ban Santa.

impossible since the Santa Claus mythology predates the Soviet Union

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Contrary to popular belief, Santa is actually the overseer of a gulag in the far north of Siberia. The elves are all his political prisoners who are short fron malnourishment. The "presents" are actually soviet mind control devices that turn our children in to little red soldiers. We should, of course, ban Santa.

impossible since the Santa Claus mythology predates the Soviet Union

I think he was joking.

[Obexer]

I didn't realize December was a summer month. I guess it never ends here.

Loving the Northern Hemisphere-centric narrative here.

You know the running gag that NS summers are crazy? I was trying to make a joke about that. Kindly take your self righteousness elsewhere, yeah?

[Daburuetchi]

Contrary to popular belief, Santa is actually the overseer of a gulag in the far north of Siberia. The elves are all his political prisoners who are short fron malnourishment. The "presents" are actually soviet mind control devices that turn our children in to little red soldiers. We should, of course, ban Santa.

impossible since the Santa Claus mythology predates the Soviet Union

Too right m8. Ded Moroz is the Soviet "santa" and head of the NKVD. I wish westerners would get this right

[Vassenor]

Loving the Northern Hemisphere-centric narrative here.

You know the running gag that NS summers are crazy? I was trying to make a joke about that. Kindly take your self righteousness elsewhere, yeah?

And it's summer in the southern hemisphere. Why do we have to constrain the crazy to a North American definition of summer?

[Obexer]

You know the running gag that NS summers are crazy? I was trying to make a joke about that. Kindly take your self righteousness elsewhere, yeah?

And it's summer in the southern hemisphere. Why do we have to constrain the crazy to a North American definition of summer?

Not saying we should. Just saying you're taking what I said too seriously.

[Adnan Nawaz And Bureacrats Elsewhere]

Really do not see an issue with allowing children to believe in Santa Claus. Not aware of anyone who doesn't naturally just grow out of such childish beliefs by a certain age anyway.

Well, we still have religious people. Ergo, childish beliefs only strengthen with age.

[USS Monitor]

In part, I agree with the OP, albeit for different reasons. I'll be firmly in the minority but I think Christmas ought to be about Christ and celebrating Him and the message he brought into the world. If you don't believe in any of that, or don't wish to observance any religious element, that's fine but don't secularize it: just don't celebrate it.

I think Christmas, even from a secular point of view, is massively over-commercialized. It's no longer about Christ, it's not even about being together with family and friends anymore: it has become about showing your kids how much you love them by emptying your bank account. Even if you're a parent who wishes to steer well clear of that element, the commercials your kids see and the peer pressure from friends will inevitably drive that element of "spend to show love" in your child. It's so ridiculous that Christmas now seems to last for 2 months; 3 if you include January sales! When I was a kid, decorations and the whole Christmas season began days (maybe a week at most) before Christmas and ended on 6 January.

Perhaps "Christmas" as the majority in the US and the West currently celebrate it ought to become a Thanksgiving II and leave Christmas to the Christians. After all, we don't secularize Hanukkah, Diwali or Ramadan. We just don't celebrate them if we don't believe in the message behind them or practice the faith they're apart.

Forget Santa Claus altogether. A Christian holiday should be all or nothing: celebrate it for what it is or don't celebrate it.

Lots of atheists celebrate Hanukkah if their family background is Jewish. It's pretty much the same deal as Christmas, just a smaller number of people celebrating it, at least in the US.

And a lot of "Christmas" traditions actually come from pre-Christian holidays like Yule or Saturnalia, so there's no reason why Christians should have a monopoly on them. You don't have the right to tell other people to give up traditions that have been handed down through their families for thousands of years just because they are not part of Christ's cult of personality. There's no evidence that Jesus was actually born on Christmas, so maybe Christians are the ones that need to stop hijacking other people's holidays. Calling it "Christmas" is a relic of the period when it was not socially acceptable to be openly atheist or pagan. If Christians had not spent centuries oppressing everyone else in Europe and America, we'd still use the names of the other holidays.

But I do agree that the Christmas music and holiday sales start way too early and people should stop letting shopping take over the whole holiday season. I am old-fashioned enough to care more family than about the materialistic side of it.

[USS Monitor]

Someone's angry that they got a lump of coal this Christmas.

I don't know why. I love coal.

[Luminesa]

How is this still going?

Because more people are making fun of it than actually debating it.

AHA! I FOUND YOU!

WHY U NO IN HOLY HIGH RP?!

[Saskisdi]

Because more people are making fun of it than actually debating it.

AHA! I FOUND YOU!

WHY U NO IN HOLY HIGH RP?!

1. Because I'm waiting for you guys to go up against Hyperion
2. Because I'm working something out with Syrixces.

[Gauthier]

Someone's angry that they got a lump of coal this Christmas.

I don't know why. I love coal.

...smoker.

[Ykrovjnge Krjvwic]

I'm late. Santa shouldn't be banned. Shush yourself, Burgermeister!

[The Alma Mater]

In part, I agree with the OP, albeit for different reasons. I'll be firmly in the minority but I think Christmas ought to be about Christ and celebrating Him and the message he brought into the world. If you don't believe in any of that, or don't wish to observance any religious element, that's fine but don't secularize it: just don't celebrate it.

I think Christmas, even from a secular point of view, is massively over-commercialized. It's no longer about Christ, it's not even about being together with family and friends anymore: it has become about showing your kids how much you love them by emptying your bank account. Even if you're a parent who wishes to steer well clear of that element, the commercials your kids see and the peer pressure from friends will inevitably drive that element of "spend to show love" in your child. It's so ridiculous that Christmas now seems to last for 2 months; 3 if you include January sales! When I was a kid, decorations and the whole Christmas season began days (maybe a week at most) before Christmas and ended on 6 January.

Perhaps "Christmas" as the majority in the US and the West currently celebrate it ought to become a Thanksgiving II and leave Christmas to the Christians. After all, we don't secularize Hanukkah, Diwali or Ramadan. We just don't celebrate them if we don't believe in the message behind them or practice the faith they're apart.

Forget Santa Claus altogether. A Christian holiday should be all or nothing: celebrate it for what it is or don't celebrate it.

You do realise that both the 'winter solstice" celebration and the precursor character of Santa predate christianity I hope ?
So if you want to keep the feast pure, it is Christ who should be removed.

[Usniya]

Really do not see an issue with allowing children to believe in Santa Claus. Not aware of anyone who doesn't naturally just grow out of such childish beliefs by a certain age anyway.

Well, we still have religious people. Ergo, childish beliefs only strengthen with age.

Religion is not a childish belief.

[Vassenor]

In part, I agree with the OP, albeit for different reasons. I'll be firmly in the minority but I think Christmas ought to be about Christ and celebrating Him and the message he brought into the world. If you don't believe in any of that, or don't wish to observance any religious element, that's fine but don't secularize it: just don't celebrate it.

I think Christmas, even from a secular point of view, is massively over-commercialized. It's no longer about Christ, it's not even about being together with family and friends anymore: it has become about showing your kids how much you love them by emptying your bank account. Even if you're a parent who wishes to steer well clear of that element, the commercials your kids see and the peer pressure from friends will inevitably drive that element of "spend to show love" in your child. It's so ridiculous that Christmas now seems to last for 2 months; 3 if you include January sales! When I was a kid, decorations and the whole Christmas season began days (maybe a week at most) before Christmas and ended on 6 January.

Perhaps "Christmas" as the majority in the US and the West currently celebrate it ought to become a Thanksgiving II and leave Christmas to the Christians. After all, we don't secularize Hanukkah, Diwali or Ramadan. We just don't celebrate them if we don't believe in the message behind them or practice the faith they're apart.

Forget Santa Claus altogether. A Christian holiday should be all or nothing: celebrate it for what it is or don't celebrate it.

You do realise that both the 'winter solstice" celebration and the precursor character of Santa predate christianity I hope ?
So if you want to keep the feast pure, it is Christ who should be removed.

But Christianity is special and must be protected from all those other evil religions.

[Secret Santa Claus]

;_;

[The Alma Mater]

A) He isn't even the Santa equivalent
B) It's actually not discriminatory. Some may call it racist, other would disagree, but in the depiction of such a character, in no way are they treating anyone different based on their race.

So black face isn't racist?

Not necessarily, no. Just like chicken and melon are not necessarily racist.

[Allamunnic States]

RE: The OP

I dunno. Plenty of people who grow up with Santa beliefs (myself included) turn into perfectly rational, thinking individual. Whether or not a child is raised with the concept of Santa Claus matters far less than the general atmosphere and environment they're raised in. This can be accounted for by educational systems that frequently do not challenge young people to think critically, or family environments that choose to get all their answers from one book, for instance.

My two cents is that it's a relatively harmless non-issue as long as children are exposed to the scientific method and the very concept of not just taking things for granted or at others' word without some kind of confirmation.

You should be worried if children don't start to doubt the existence of the fat man by themselves. That is a far bigger red flag.

Nothing wrong with choosing not to raise your children with the concept of Santa Claus (not sure I'd do so for my children if I somehow have any), but a ban is just silly.

[Royal Denmark]

Who are you to ruin tradition of telling tales about a fictional character?


I might be late, but I can still make a good point.
*reads through different pages of thread*
Well, almost all the good points have been taken, so I rest my case. Well, maybe not rest, but...I dunno, I'll give it my best shot.
I might be repeating some others, but, as a Civil Rights Activist, I can immediately say that banning Santa Claus from books, and oral traditions, is a violation of human rights. It's all on the parents on how they choose to tell their child what is real and what is not, and if it isn't real, let them be the ones to decide how they let their children know, because I can tell you this much, if a ban on Santa was en-acted, parents and children would freak out.

Another thing, a ban on Santa would have a heavy impact on many companies. One of which, might be Coca Cola, seeing as pretty much every Christmas, Coca Cola's cans and bottles feature Santa on the wrapping/can itself. What are they going to put on it then? A red snowman? Or how about a red christmas tree?