Santa Should be Banned

[Immoren]

I keep reading "Satan should be banned'.

I believe whole justice system might fall apart if we banned prosecutors.

[San Lumen]

i can't believe this turned into as long of discussion as it did. i never did get an answer to my question. Should we ban Krampus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Grimm Fairy Tales, shows like Grimm, and Harry Potter and Percy Jackson series? Should we close down Disney World too? Are we to have a society were there is no imagination and magic and wonder? only truth and no fantasy or fiction? Oh what a boring world that would be.

[Mornwood City]

And in response of the claims that it would not do anything to the economy, Santa's Grottos would not exist, and Santa's Grottos are quite profitable for what they are.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that children leave out food and such for Santa, and carrots for the reindeer. The food industry would lose out, too. Think about it!

[Hurdegaryp]

i can't believe this turned into as long of discussion as it did. i never did get an answer to my question. Should we ban Krampus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Grimm Fairy Tales, shows like Grimm, and Harry Potter and Percy Jackson series? Should we close down Disney World too? Are we to have a society were there is no imagination and magic and wonder? only truth and no fantasy or fiction? Oh what a boring world that would be.

And you probably shall never get a proper answer, because that's not how threads such as these work.

[Conscentia]

And in response of the claims that it would not do anything to the economy, Santa's Grottos would not exist, and Santa's Grottos are quite profitable for what they are.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that children leave out food and such for Santa, and carrots for the reindeer. The food industry would lose out, too. Think about it!

You think without those things people will just bury the money in their backyard or something? The money will still be spent - just on other things.

[Mornwood City]

And in response of the claims that it would not do anything to the economy, Santa's Grottos would not exist, and Santa's Grottos are quite profitable for what they are.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that children leave out food and such for Santa, and carrots for the reindeer. The food industry would lose out, too. Think about it!

You think without those things people will just bury the money in their backyard or something? The money will still be spent - just on other things.

I suppose it depends on your viewpoint. People are still going to be skint from buying their relatives stuff around Christmas, so less spending in January is inevitable, but in regards for the extra stuff spent on within regards to Santa, people spend more in December, though potentially less in January than others.

My conclusion is that kids dig that stuff. Just think of the children; they'll buy anything they like the look of, regardless of quality. Chocolate Santa? Sold to the hyperactive five-year-old in your local Sainsbury's.

[Hurdegaryp]

You think without those things people will just bury the money in their backyard or something? The money will still be spent - just on other things.

I suppose it depends on your viewpoint. People are still going to be skint from buying their relatives stuff around Christmas, so less spending in January is inevitable, but in regards for the extra stuff spent on within regards to Santa, people spend more in December, though potentially less in January than others.

My conclusion is that kids dig that stuff. Just think of the children; they'll buy anything they like the look of, regardless of quality. Chocolate Santa? Sold to the hyperactive five-year-old in your local Sainsbury's.

Sold to the parents of your hypothetical hyperactive five-year-old, to be exact. Kids that age do not tend to buy their own stuff.

[Mornwood City]

Sold to the parents of your hypothetical hyperactive five-year-old, to be exact. Kids that age do not tend to buy their own stuff.

Thanks for the correction.

[Hurdegaryp]

Sold to the parents of your hypothetical hyperactive five-year-old, to be exact. Kids that age do not tend to buy their own stuff.

Thanks for the correction.

You're welcome. There are better things I could have done in that time, but I didn't.

[Reagan-land]

The cultural custom of Santa Claus is unethical and counterproductive to the greater good. It is not only wrong to teach children to believe in the existence of a fictional character, it sets up an unhealthy mindset lacking in skepticism. But more concerningly, an immoral and criminal character is being glorified as a benevolent figure of goodness. A character who spies on people without their knowledge or consent (stalking), a character who breaks into people's houses (breaking and entering).

Some may handwave this criminal behaviour away by saying Santa gives gifts. But it's a cruel lie. A cruel lie that normalizes the act of parents lying to their own children. Surely it would be more healthy for children to be aware of having recieved gifts from their parents than to be told it came from a stalker with a habit of breaking into people's houses at night. This cultural custom skews the moral compass of children by teaching them to be good for the sake of a reward, normalizes lying, promotes an unhealthy mindset detached from fact-checking, and glorifies an individual who would be despised if anyone else were to partake in those criminal actions like stalking and breaking and entering.

We can celebrate the holidays without Santa in it. The cultural practice of Santa Claus should be done away with, perhaps going so far as a ban if that's what it takes. Thoughts?

I think you had a little too much time on your hands and started over thinking something as simple and beloved as Santa. Secondly, he is a figure often seen on commercial products so giving St Nick the boot would in fact hard the movie industry and alike. So no, we shouldn't.

[Valystria]

i can't believe this turned into as long of discussion as it did. i never did get an answer to my question. Should we ban Krampus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Grimm Fairy Tales, shows like Grimm, and Harry Potter and Percy Jackson series? Should we close down Disney World too? Are we to have a society were there is no imagination and magic and wonder? only truth and no fantasy or fiction? Oh what a boring world that would be.

Those questions are not relevant to the Santa ban. The slippery slope fallacy has no relevance either.

I think you had a little too much time on your hands and started over thinking something as simple and beloved as Santa. Secondly, he is a figure often seen on commercial products so giving St Nick the boot would in fact hard the movie industry and alike. So no, we shouldn't.

There wasn't any overthinking involved. The unethical behavior surrounding the Santa ritual is a very simple and clear matter when biases are set aside.

i can't believe this turned into as long of discussion as it did. i never did get an answer to my question. Should we ban Krampus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Grimm Fairy Tales, shows like Grimm, and Harry Potter and Percy Jackson series? Should we close down Disney World too? Are we to have a society were there is no imagination and magic and wonder? only truth and no fantasy or fiction? Oh what a boring world that would be.

And you probably shall never get a proper answer, because that's not how threads such as these work.

The questions would receive answers if they were relevant to the Santa ban. Banning Santa doesn't necessitate banning other holiday figures. The circumstances are different in each case.

The economic resources would be redirected elsewhere. Star Wars is not comparable.

The other holidays and holiday figures fall outside the focus of the issue and would each have to be examined individually.

I do not believe a ban on Santa would lead to civil war.

That was just a possible scenario from banning it.
Also
>Jediism
>People who believe the force is real, in a way

What does Jediism have to do with the Santa ban?

[Patridam]

i can't believe this turned into as long of discussion as it did. i never did get an answer to my question. Should we ban Krampus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Grimm Fairy Tales, shows like Grimm, and Harry Potter and Percy Jackson series? Should we close down Disney World too? Are we to have a society were there is no imagination and magic and wonder? only truth and no fantasy or fiction? Oh what a boring world that would be.

Those questions are not relevant to the Santa ban. The slippery slope fallacy has no relevance either.

I wanted to ask you for clarification. If we "ban santa" under your plan, what specifically are we banning. People dressed like him? Pictures of him? Verbal mentions of him? Are we just going to stop these things from being made new, or are we going to try to destroy currently existing thing that involve Santa? How far are you going, exactly?

[Calimama]

Why would it be devastating? Christmas would remain. Christmas shopping would remain. The only difference is there wouldn't be a Santa.


It's unethical to swindle children into believing in the existence of a fictional character.


"You are mistaken" was in response to someone who believes IM isn't sincere.

"The ritual of Santa shouldn't be imposed upon children" stands up on its own merits. If people want to take part in Santa without having been lied into believing Santa is real, there would be far less reason to ban Santa.

It is a pressing issue. It affects countless numbers of people from an early age and happens again every year.


Neither of us went through that.

It isn't about me. It's about building a more ethical society.

Okay...If Santa was banned(which is a bad idea.)
1.How would you enforce it?
2.How much money would it cost?
3.What would be the punishment?
4.What would it do to help our society?
5.And, if you had too, could you write a college level paper on why Santa should be banned?(as in 5 to ten pages.)As much more urgent issues can be written on because they have more evidence as to why they have hurt society.

[Salus Maior]

Combine those two guys and you get Sinterklaas, of which Santa Claus is a systematically dereligionized derivate.

Pretty much. Doesn't mean that Christmas can't be treated with Christian reverence by the faithful.

[Valystria]

Okay...If Santa was banned(which is a bad idea.)
1.How would you enforce it?
2.How much money would it cost?
3.What would be the punishment?
4.What would it do to help our society?
5.And, if you had too, could you write a college level paper on why Santa should be banned?(as in 5 to ten pages.)As much more urgent issues can be written on because they have more evidence as to why they have hurt society.

These are excellent questions.

The ban was only one proposed means to end the unethical cultural practice of Santa. There are other means to phase out Santa.

If designing a Santa ban for optimal efficiency from a resources standpoint, it would be sufficient to ban the sale of Santa-related merchandise and Santa-related festivals. Extending the ban into the home would require significantly more resources to enforce.

Those questions are not relevant to the Santa ban. The slippery slope fallacy has no relevance either.

I wanted to ask you for clarification. If we "ban santa" under your plan, what specifically are we banning. People dressed like him? Pictures of him? Verbal mentions of him? Are we just going to stop these things from being made new, or are we going to try to destroy currently existing thing that involve Santa? How far are you going, exactly?

That depends on how far it could be taken.

[Patridam]

If designing a Santa ban for optimal efficiency from a resources standpoint, it would be sufficient to ban the sale of Santa-related merchandise and Santa-related festivals. Extending the ban into the home would require significantly more resources to enforce.

So you are going to be banning the sale/public display of films, books, and songs, and decorations that make reference to Santa Claus?

[Calimama]

Okay...If Santa was banned(which is a bad idea.)
1.How would you enforce it?
2.How much money would it cost?
3.What would be the punishment?
4.What would it do to help our society?
5.And, if you had too, could you write a college level paper on why Santa should be banned?(as in 5 to ten pages.)As much more urgent issues can be written on because they have more evidence as to why they have hurt society.

These are excellent questions.

The ban was only one proposed means to end the unethical cultural practice of Santa. There are other means to phase out Santa.

If designing a Santa ban for optimal efficiency from a resources standpoint, it would be sufficient to ban the sale of Santa-related merchandise and Santa-related festivals. Extending the ban into the home would require significantly more resources to enforce.

You only answered one of them though.

[Dalcaria]

Shoot me now please before I get sent to some kind of work camp for encouraging the Santa tradition.

A) None of the things OP stated believing in Santa have been substantiated by evidence.

B) Children by their nature have both moments of skepticism and moments of firm belief. At such a young age, this isn't just normal, I'd argue it's healthy, because it builds on characteristics that will be important as they get older.

C) By trying to micro-manage how parents raise their kids to this drastic of a length totally overrides the child raising rights of parents. Admittedly, there are many cases this can be a good thing, but with Santa? It's an excessive push for censorship riding on the coattails of some very poor slippery slopes.

D) I rarely use the term "Orwellian" because I think it is so easy to abuse, but in this case, this is absolutely Orwellian. Controlling what kids can and cannot believe in seems tantamount to brainwash. Santa not being real is irrelevant, it's the principal of the matter. Kids will grow out of it, all banning Santa does is robs them of the opportunity to explore the most primitive form of "belief", and one of the cornerstones of freedom itself is freedom of belief.

[Dalcaria]

Why would it be devastating? Christmas would remain. Christmas shopping would remain. The only difference is there wouldn't be a Santa.


It's unethical to swindle children into believing in the existence of a fictional character.


"You are mistaken" was in response to someone who believes IM isn't sincere.

"The ritual of Santa shouldn't be imposed upon children" stands up on its own merits. If people want to take part in Santa without having been lied into believing Santa is real, there would be far less reason to ban Santa.

It is a pressing issue. It affects countless numbers of people from an early age and happens again every year.


Neither of us went through that.

It isn't about me. It's about building a more ethical society.

This isn't a pressing matter. 600'000 child sex slaves in America IS a pressing matter. Kids will get over being lied to (I did, so did all my sisters, so does every other kid). Kids don't get over being sexually abused.

This isn't about ethics, it's about an opinion on parenting, and frankly, it's such a asinine topic that the only logical conclusion I can come to is to leave it to parents to decide how to raise their kids in regards to Santa. The only time governments, laws, and legislatures should be involved with child rearing is when it affects children and how they develop. The Santa tradition (from what I can tell on this thread) has not affected any kids or how they develop.

[Hurdegaryp]

These are excellent questions.

The ban was only one proposed means to end the unethical cultural practice of Santa. There are other means to phase out Santa.

If designing a Santa ban for optimal efficiency from a resources standpoint, it would be sufficient to ban the sale of Santa-related merchandise and Santa-related festivals. Extending the ban into the home would require significantly more resources to enforce.

You only answered one of them though.

That is how it usually works. Pet peeve threads such as these never bring forth satisfying answers, just petty squabbling that can go on for dozens of pages.

[Vassenor]

You only answered one of them though.

That is how it usually works. Pet peeve threads such as these never bring forth satisfying answers, just petty squabbling that can go on for dozens of pages.

Pretty much. People only ever answer the soft questions that might agree with them and ignore the ones that actually challenge their beliefs.

[Hurdegaryp]

That is how it usually works. Pet peeve threads such as these never bring forth satisfying answers, just petty squabbling that can go on for dozens of pages.

Pretty much. People only ever answer the soft questions that might agree with them and ignore the ones that actually challenge their beliefs.

Absolutely so. I've seen quite a few poignant questions of myself ignored over the years, because answering those would not have given the lamentable wretches the hollow victories they so desperately crave in order to fill the gaping void that is their existence.

[Reagan-land]

Ok, this thread is just retarded at this point. Santa hasn't done any harm, he isn't "unethical" and arguing about whether f***ing SANTA should be banned is a result of you over thinking a very simple character

[United States of White America]

Atheism should be banned, you stupid cretin.

[Katganistan]

Atheism should be banned, you stupid cretin.

Know what else is banned? Flaming people. So knock it off.