All Cars Should Be Tracked and Locked

[Noraika]

The best possible one is to attach tracking devices to all cars, and to somehow hook them up to a network where it is possible for the speed limits to be detected by the device. Then if the car goes over the speed limit it automatically tickets them. This coupled with the more conventional distance-based speed cameras that measure the time a car takes between cameras and determines their speed off of it of course.

I like the idea of forcing at least one person in the car to be sober as well for the car to even work, but I think it'd be difficult to have the desired effect. If someone else in the car, or even just nearby, is sober they can just breathe into it to start the car, and the drunk can drive away.

[Galloism]

The best possible one is to attach tracking devices to all cars, and to somehow hook them up to a network where it is possible for the speed limits to be detected by the device. Then if the car goes over the speed limit it automatically tickets them. This coupled with the more conventional distance-based speed cameras that measure the time a car takes between cameras and determines their speed off of it of course.

Since tickets must meet a standard of evidence such that they stand up in court, the tracking devices in the car would have to be very precise and calibrated regularly. I notice you didn't say "GPS" which leaves the question of "then what". Without knowing "then what" i can't analyze it.

Distance-based cameras also have to be calibrated regularly with those costs. Distance-based cameras are used in some places, and there are associated costs with those, but they are impractical to roll out across the whole country due to the immense costs involved.

I like the idea of forcing at least one person in the car to be sober as well for the car to even work, but I think it'd be difficult to have the desired effect. If someone else in the car, or even just nearby, is sober they can just breathe into it to start the car, and the drunk can drive away.

They also manufacture devices that can fool breathalyzers.

[Vassenor]

This isn't about punishing anyone. It's about keeping everyone safe under the watchful eyes of the state.

#bigbrotheriswatchingyou

[Gun Manufacturers]

This isn't about punishing anyone. It's about keeping everyone safe under the watchful eyes of the state.

#bigbrotheriswatchingyou

[Gauthier]

You're preaching the Gospel of Mushroom and now you're concerned about convicts being tracked as a stigma?

There's no stigma if everyone is tracked.

There's no stigma for capital convicts if everyone is executed with them too.

[Hetland 2]

There's no stigma if everyone is tracked.

There's no stigma for capital convicts if everyone is executed with them too.

#nolivesmatter

[Valystria]

There's no stigma if everyone is tracked.

There's no stigma for capital convicts if everyone is executed with them too.

Why do you support the death penalty?

This isn't about punishing anyone. It's about keeping everyone safe under the watchful eyes of the state.

#bigbrotheriswatchingyou

Fictional characters are of no consequence here.

If we ditch the wars we can afford the trackers.


No one has suggested doing that, but feel free to continue citing strawmen if that's all you can defend your position with.


Do consider applying the wisdom of your words to yourself. No one had suggesting placing trackers in all cars except those of felons. You conjured that strawman and then proceeded to use it as if it somehow accomplishes anything other than nothing.


I'm sorry that you associate public safety with punishment. It doesn't make it so.


This is all the more reason for more surveillance and for more usage of law enforcement drones to stay ahead of subversives who would use drones for nefarious ends.


You may want to rethink that...


This could be mitigated with the government taking up a policy of shifting towards autarky.

1- Public safety doesn't need draconian features to work. We're doing fine without these measures. If anything less measures are proved to work rather than more.

2 - Apparently someone has forgotten you can make tools with wood and damage equipment that way. Seriously, I've been thinking neither you or IM or Ostro have fuck all notions of what you're talking about, I'm starting to think I'm right.

1. There is nothing draconian about monitoring the public for their own safety.

2. You're the only one suggesting wood should be banned...

If we ditch the wars we can afford the trackers.

Not a chance.

I am more optimistic than you are.

Well... almost no one...

That wasn't about traffic violations. The strawman remains unsubstantiated.

Now we're going to shrink our economy. Clearly by completely defunding the military, then sinking the economy, then declaring war on everybody who might have a citizen that can reverse engineer our system, we are on a path to an economically prosperous utopia.

We don't need to declare war. We can ban emigration.

Won't work.

The united states is 3.8 MILLION square miles. You can't possibly watch it all.

But we can watch an ever increasing portion of it.

[Vassenor]

#bigbrotheriswatchingyou

Fictional characters are of no consequence here.

I'd say it is when you're talking about the creation of exactly the sort of mass surveillance state that 1984 was a warning against.

And over something as trivial as speeding violations.

[The Two Jerseys]

Well... almost no one...

That wasn't about traffic violations. The strawman remains unsubstantiated.

If I said that Hitler wanted to kill all the black people, pointing out that Hitler actually wanted to kill all the Jews doesn't make what Hitler wanted to do any less evil...

[Hetland 2]

That wasn't about traffic violations. The strawman remains unsubstantiated.

If I said that Hitler wanted to kill all the black people, pointing out that Hitler actually wanted to kill all the Jews doesn't make what Hitler wanted to do any less evil...

Last time I checked he wanted to get rid of both...

[Yukonastan]

I'm going to say this clearly:

Mandatory tracking of every single vehicle on the road is a waste of time and money. It is a draconian form of mass surveillance in my opinion, and I do not want to be tracked all the time. Nor do I think that it's right to install a silent ticketing system in every vehicle. If anything, use GPS tracking in the car, along with a map of posted speed limits, to -govern- the vehicle's maximum speed. Not to ticket them for going too fast. That'd be far more practical and acceptable and while there will still be detractors of that including myself, it does not require the car to maintain an open cellphone connection, merely a receiving satellite connection. It won't be monitored except by a device in the car itself, combined with a roadmap downloaded once.

[Vassenor]

I'm going to say this clearly:

Mandatory tracking of every single vehicle on the road is a waste of time and money. It is a draconian form of mass surveillance in my opinion, and I do not want to be tracked all the time. Nor do I think that it's right to install a silent ticketing system in every vehicle. If anything, use GPS tracking in the car, along with a map of posted speed limits, to -govern- the vehicle's maximum speed. Not to ticket them for going too fast. That'd be far more practical and acceptable and while there will still be detractors of that including myself, it does not require the car to maintain an open cellphone connection, merely a receiving satellite connection. It won't be monitored except by a device in the car itself, combined with a roadmap downloaded once.

Still has more or less the same cost issues given the equipment required for an accurate GPS fix.

Plus how does it account for temporary speed restrictions or alterations?

[Galloism]

Not a chance.

I am more optimistic than you are.

You're talking about 6 trillion dollars over 40 years, or a cost of 150 billion dollars a year. Some of that was more up front, but still, 150 billion a year on average is something we can handle.

2.7 trillion up front in installation plus infrastructure, plus an immense amount in continuing costs, plus the hundreds of billions it costs to maintain universal breathalyzers is something we cannot handle.

Well... almost no one...

That wasn't about traffic violations. The strawman remains unsubstantiated.

It was about someone reverse engineering a system that would allow people to commit traffic violations unobserved. It's hardly different than declaring war on Mexico because there's a few drug cartels down there.

Now we're going to shrink our economy. Clearly by completely defunding the military, then sinking the economy, then declaring war on everybody who might have a citizen that can reverse engineer our system, we are on a path to an economically prosperous utopia.

We don't need to declare war. We can ban emigration.

In, out, or both? Because if it's in, I don't see how that helps. If it's out, I don't see how that doesn't further ingrain the dystopian hellhole the nation has become (and, ironically, encourage people to literally start fleeing the country and seeking asylum in other countries as refugees), and both... well, both has the problems of both those.

Won't work.

The united states is 3.8 MILLION square miles. You can't possibly watch it all.

But we can watch an ever increasing portion of it.

And all the holes will allow people to launch drone strikes against your infrastructure without being detected.

[Ifreann]

Well... almost no one...

That wasn't about traffic violations. The strawman remains unsubstantiated.

Did I say traffic violations or did I say traffic laws? Obviously the laws prohibiting interference with these car tracking devices would be traffic laws, since the purpose of these devices is to detect traffic violations. And obviously no country on Earth is going to bother enforcing foreign laws prohibiting tampering with these devices, because that would be stupid. So per the 'Shroom himself, war would be declared.

[Galloism]

That wasn't about traffic violations. The strawman remains unsubstantiated.

Did I say traffic violations or did I say traffic laws? Obviously the laws prohibiting interference with these car tracking devices would be traffic laws, since the purpose of these devices is to detect traffic violations. And obviously no country on Earth is going to bother enforcing foreign laws prohibiting tampering with these devices, because that would be stupid. So per the 'Shroom himself, war would be declared.

Now now Ifreann, why aren't you accepting the reasonable premise that we need to spend trillions of dollars tracking hundreds of millions of vehicles 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, harden them all against tampering, collapse the military budget to pay for it, and then go around attacking all the other nations on the planet for not giving in to your plans and enforce your laws in their countries?

It all seems so logical.

[Ifreann]

Did I say traffic violations or did I say traffic laws? Obviously the laws prohibiting interference with these car tracking devices would be traffic laws, since the purpose of these devices is to detect traffic violations. And obviously no country on Earth is going to bother enforcing foreign laws prohibiting tampering with these devices, because that would be stupid. So per the 'Shroom himself, war would be declared.

Now now Ifreann, why aren't you accepting the reasonable premise that we need to spend trillions of dollars tracking hundreds of millions of vehicles 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, harden them all against tampering, collapse the military budget to pay for it, and then go around attacking all the other nations on the planet for not giving in to your plans and enforce your laws in their countries?

It all seems so logical.

I must be one of those evil people with something to hide.

[Katganistan]

It also exists in a time without phones, cameras, recording devices, etc., etc., etc.

Guess what they decided? You need warrants for those.

and they can decide otherwise, SC isn't bound by its own precedents and there's nothing in the literal text barring them from changing their interpretation of the texts

Except reality.

[The Two Jerseys]

Now now Ifreann, why aren't you accepting the reasonable premise that we need to spend trillions of dollars tracking hundreds of millions of vehicles 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, harden them all against tampering, collapse the military budget to pay for it, and then go around attacking all the other nations on the planet for not giving in to your plans and enforce your laws in their countries?

It all seems so logical.

I must be one of those evil people with something to hide.

That's why your car needs to be tracked. *nods*

[The Two Jerseys]

and they can decide otherwise, SC isn't bound by its own precedents and there's nothing in the literal text barring them from changing their interpretation of the texts

Except reality.

Submitted for your approval: nine judges overturning hundreds of years of legal precedents on a whim. A court hard at work rewriting the law books, altering the laws of men, nations, time, space, and reality. Court is now in session in...The Twilight Zone.

[Katganistan]

That would be a great overstatement. While some few health benefits have been discovered from drinking (in moderation that is), it doesn't outhweight the damage alcohol has and is causing society at all, through for example drunk-driving. However, moderational drinking naturally should be favoured over excessive drinking to get drunk.

This could be enforced by making it illegal to have blood alcohol content above a certain level.

WHICH ALREADY EXISTS. If you are stopped driving with at or above 0.08%, you're in deep shit.

[Infected Mushroom]

Apparently they didn't think about that one.

"Let's put trackers in ALL of the cars.... Except the ones who are felons, they have too much of a stigma."

Brilliant logic.

if you would like to make that suggestion, then start a separate thread on it

but no one on this side has suggested it

[Infected Mushroom]

"Let's put trackers in ALL of the cars.... Except the ones who are felons, they have too much of a stigma."
~ Cybraxia

"Let's put trackers in ALL of the cars.... Except the ones who are felons, they have too much of a stigma."

Notice how it's in quotes?

It's not a suggestion.

Reading Comprehension will help you go far in life kids.

Putting it in quotes means you are attributing it to someone else, where that attribution is false, the only person suggesting that the statement has been made is you

[The Two Jerseys]

Notice how it's in quotes?

It's not a suggestion.

Reading Comprehension will help you go far in life kids.

Putting it in quotes means you are attributing it to someone else, where that attribution is false, the only person suggesting that the statement has been made is you

You're making that up.

[Infected Mushroom]

There's no stigma if everyone is tracked.

There's no stigma for capital convicts if everyone is executed with them too.

that would be a suggestion for a different thread, and if its not not a serious suggestion but an attempt at attribution, again, no one on this side has suggested that

[Infected Mushroom]

Did I say traffic violations or did I say traffic laws? Obviously the laws prohibiting interference with these car tracking devices would be traffic laws, since the purpose of these devices is to detect traffic violations. And obviously no country on Earth is going to bother enforcing foreign laws prohibiting tampering with these devices, because that would be stupid. So per the 'Shroom himself, war would be declared.

Now now Ifreann, why aren't you accepting the reasonable premise that we need to spend trillions of dollars tracking hundreds of millions of vehicles 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, harden them all against tampering, collapse the military budget to pay for it, and then go around attacking all the other nations on the planet for not giving in to your plans and enforce your laws in their countries?

It all seems so logical.

it won't cost that much, you are insulting the efficiency of American technology