Has Political Correctness Gone too Far?

[Ostroeuropa]

Not the weakest. Simple edits to genetics can be made to phase out predictable defects without any detriment to human liberty.

It wouldn't stop with just minor edits to save people from things that will kill them before they grow up (which are increasingly disappearing through medical treatment anyway).

Would you be opposed to, say, splicing the magnetism detection gene into newborns?
It would provide the human race with an innate sense of which way is north.

The child is still who they were before. You've merely added a gene.

Okay.

Now suppose you remove a gene.

Is it merely the wholesale rejection and destruction of a subject that you object to?
Or do you also object to gene specific edits?

[Seperates]

Ok... To what end?

They are an end in and of themselves.

So technology itself will dictate the human race and we have no agency in how we utilize it?

[Morr]

So are there in communion. Pregnancy is the most physically intimate relationship two humans can share.

I could make the same argument for a heart transplant.

How do you define 'physically intimate' though?

A heart transplant is perhaps very intimate, as is insemination (the difference is that insemination actually requires the two persons to come physically together), but it's not the same as sharing a body for nine months.

Intimacy is closeness.

[Great Nilfgaard]

Political Correctness is the refuge of those unwilling to handle opposing viewpoints and inconvenient facts.

[Seperates]

I could make the same argument for a heart transplant.

How do you define 'physically intimate' though?

A heart transplant is perhaps very intimate, as is insemination (the difference is that insemination actually requires the two persons to come physically together), but it's not the same as sharing a body for nine months.

Intimacy is closeness.

So, based on your definition of closeness, a tape worm or virus has the same level of intimacy as a fetus?

[Morr]

It wouldn't stop with just minor edits to save people from things that will kill them before they grow up (which are increasingly disappearing through medical treatment anyway).

Would you be opposed to, say, splicing the magnetism detection gene into newborns?
It would provide the human race with an innate sense of which way is north.

The child is still who they were before. You've merely added a gene.

Okay.

Now suppose you remove a gene.

Is it merely the wholesale rejection and destruction of a subject that you object to?
Or do you also object to gene specific edits?

Yes, I'd be opposed, because slippery slope is not a fallacy here. These things will lead inexorably toward completely designed human beings. That might lead to Brave New World, or it might just lead to babies being designed according to the latest trend in movie stars or magazine covers, but either way, I don't like it.

[Valystria]

Ok... To what end?

They are an end in and of themselves.

They are ends that should be glorified and revered as the eternal pursuits they are.

Political Correctness is the refuge of those unwilling to handle opposing viewpoints and inconvenient facts.

Not necessarily. It's merely being used by those sorts.

Not the weakest. Simple edits to genetics can be made to phase out predictable defects without any detriment to human liberty.

It wouldn't stop with just minor edits to save people from things that will kill them before they grow up (which are increasingly disappearing through medical treatment anyway).

Yes it could easily stop at that. These matters can be regulated by law.

Advances in science, technology, economic development, and social organization.

Ok... To what end?

To progress.

[Morr]

A heart transplant is perhaps very intimate, as is insemination (the difference is that insemination actually requires the two persons to come physically together), but it's not the same as sharing a body for nine months.

Intimacy is closeness.

So, based on your definition of closeness, a tape worm or virus has the same level of intimacy as a fetus?

Not exactly, because a tape worm isn't a human being, and intimacy is something that intensifies with the higher the life form.

[Royal Hindustan]

Ignoring PC is not about being an asshole. It's about not being forced to cater to everyone's feelings. When I host a Christmas party, you can be goddamn sure I will say "Merry Christmas", and if you think that isn't good for minorities, then you can get out. When that happens, it should not be that I am forced to say "Happy Holidays" to not offend anyone. Plain and simple, the right to feelings dos not trump the right of free speech.

[Morr]

Yes it could easily stop at that. These matters can be regulated by law.

But they won't be, or else the way sperm donation works today would already be illegal.

[Seperates]

They are an end in and of themselves.

They are ends that should be glorified and revered as the eternal pursuits they are.

Ok... To what end?

To progress.

Yeah, but what is the ethos of your goal? Progress itself is not an ethos. All things 'progress' and change. All things develop. Progress is happenstance. What is the societal goal of your progress?

[Valystria]

They are ends that should be glorified and revered as the eternal pursuits they are.


To progress.

Yeah, but what is the ethos of your goal? Progress itself is not an ethos. All things 'progress' and change. All things develop. Progress is happenstance. What is the societal goal of your progress?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea_of_Progress

Progress is the societal goal of progress.

[Seperates]

So, based on your definition of closeness, a tape worm or virus has the same level of intimacy as a fetus?

Not exactly, because a tape worm isn't a human being, and intimacy is something that intensifies with the higher the life form.

Then 'closeness' is not physical closeness? Because a tapeworm is as physically close as a fetus.

[Ostroeuropa]

They are ends that should be glorified and revered as the eternal pursuits they are.


To progress.

Yeah, but what is the ethos of your goal? Progress itself is not an ethos. All things 'progress' and change. All things develop. Progress is happenstance. What is the societal goal of your progress?

This is sort of like asking a 1984 person what the point of the authoritarianism is.
It is it's own point.
It is perpetual and self-reinforcing and such.

We're ardently progress obsessed. It is axiomatic.

Technology must improve.
Society must develop.
Diseases must continue to be eradicated.
We must explore and understand more and more.
The economy must grow until all is abundant.
Etc.

Arguably, you could say "Toward utopia." but that isn't necessary. You know the philosophy thing about halving a distance constantly means you'll never reach the destination?
That's fine too.

[Morr]

Yeah, but what is the ethos of your goal? Progress itself is not an ethos. All things 'progress' and change. All things develop. Progress is happenstance. What is the societal goal of your progress?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea_of_Progress

Progress is the societal goal of progress.

Yeah, Whig history confirmed for being as neurotic as the Protestant work ethic. "Work is a goal in itself because work is good."

[Seperates]

Yeah, but what is the ethos of your goal? Progress itself is not an ethos. All things 'progress' and change. All things develop. Progress is happenstance. What is the societal goal of your progress?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea_of_Progress

Progress is the societal goal of progress.

Based on what you linked, 'civilization and the production of civilized society' is the societal goal of progress. What exactly is 'civilization'?

[Morr]

Not exactly, because a tape worm isn't a human being, and intimacy is something that intensifies with the higher the life form.

Then 'closeness' is not physical closeness? Because a tapeworm is as physically close as a fetus.

Closeness is both a physical and a psychological thing (and a spiritual, but I won't go into that), and the physical reinforces the psychological in the same way that you're going to get more psychological turned on by an actual naked woman in your arms than a fantasy of one.

[Valystria]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea_of_Progress

Progress is the societal goal of progress.

Based on what you linked, 'civilization and the production of civilized society' is the societal goal of progress. What exactly is 'civilization'?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/civilization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea_of_Progress

Progress is the societal goal of progress.

Yeah, Whig history confirmed for being as neurotic as the Protestant work ethic. "Work is a goal in itself because work is good."

No, work should only ever be a means to an end. The Protestant work ethic is fundamentally against the ideal of progress.

Not exactly, because a tape worm isn't a human being, and intimacy is something that intensifies with the higher the life form.

Then 'closeness' is not physical closeness? Because a tapeworm is as physically close as a fetus.

There's also how a person could hypothetically develop a sense of emotional attachment to their tapeworm.

[Ostroeuropa]

There's also how a person could hypothetically develop a sense of emotional attachment to their tapeworm.

"You could never understand what it feels like to have something living growing inside you!"

"We've been through a lot together."

[Seperates]

Yeah, but what is the ethos of your goal? Progress itself is not an ethos. All things 'progress' and change. All things develop. Progress is happenstance. What is the societal goal of your progress?

This is sort of like asking a 1984 person what the point of the authoritarianism is.
It is it's own point.
It is perpetual and self-reinforcing and such.

We're ardently progress obsessed. It is axiomatic.

Technology must improve.
Society must develop.
Diseases must continue to be eradicated.
We must explore and understand more and more.
The economy must grow until all is abundant.
Etc.

Arguably, you could say "Toward utopia." but that isn't necessary. You know the philosophy thing about halving a distance constantly means you'll never reach the destination?
That's fine too.

I was getting to that point. My point is that the idea of 'progress' is relative. We are obsessed with progress to even think what we are progressing towards. Authoritarian ethics is towards an eternal status quo. 'Progress' seeks to buck a status quo. But who defines what is and isn't progress?

[Morr]

No, work should only ever be a means to an end. The Protestant work ethic is fundamentally against the ideal of progress.

Work is individual actualization of progress, bruh.

[Morr]

There's also how a person could hypothetically develop a sense of emotional attachment to their tapeworm.

That's quite right, but the tapeworm couldn't bond back.

[Ostroeuropa]

This is sort of like asking a 1984 person what the point of the authoritarianism is.
It is it's own point.
It is perpetual and self-reinforcing and such.

We're ardently progress obsessed. It is axiomatic.

Technology must improve.
Society must develop.
Diseases must continue to be eradicated.
We must explore and understand more and more.
The economy must grow until all is abundant.
Etc.

Arguably, you could say "Toward utopia." but that isn't necessary. You know the philosophy thing about halving a distance constantly means you'll never reach the destination?
That's fine too.

I was getting to that point. My point is that the idea of 'progress' is relative. We are obsessed with progress to even think what we are progressing towards. Authoritarian ethics is towards an eternal status quo. 'Progress' seeks to buck a status quo. But who defines what is and isn't progress?

It doesn't even matter.
Darwinianism will out, memetics will ensure it.

Change for the sake of change and such.

[Ostroeuropa]

There's also how a person could hypothetically develop a sense of emotional attachment to their tapeworm.

That's quite right, but the tapeworm couldn't bond back.

Nor can the fetus until it is born.

[Seperates]

Based on what you linked, 'civilization and the production of civilized society' is the societal goal of progress. What exactly is 'civilization'?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/civilization

Which one do you mean?
Because most of those definitions include an hermetical end point.