Reports: Turkish F-16s shoot down Russian Su-24

[Valaran]

I'm reasonably certain it was fired before, or that not everyone would have realised whether it had recrossed the border or not (hardly a big glowing line in the sky after all).

If it was a mid-range missile (AIM-120), then it is more-or-less impossible. Travelling at 1.3 km per second, such a missile would have caught the plane probably within about 15-20 seconds, sooner if my estimate of the distance is correct.

With respect, this is just an estimate. I will wait for data, though I certainly don't mean that as a slight; its just hard to work out the specifics, and given the ranges and speeds, even being slightly off could prove statistically crucial.

My guess is that the missile was fired as the Russian jet was leaving the airspace, but that is was not clear whether it had left it or not to the Turkish jets.

[Baltenstein]

It'll start over something really dumb, like "you just nuked my capital city for no reason".

FUCKING GANDHI!!!!!

Sneak attack by Indian forces!

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[Valaran]

Sorry, missed this for a sec.

Ah, fair points. But even so, the... instability present in such manoeuvres has declined markedly since the 90s.

Agreed on the second, but it has become more of a show-dance than an actively dangerous situation. Certainly no one expects relations to suddenly deteriorate further between Ankara-Athens because of it, and they probably won't start shooting each other.

You're probably right, but seeing how both the Greek and the Turkish governments are mostly made up by irresponsible clowns with delusions of grandeur, I wouldn't be completely optimistic.

Complete agreement there. Sadly :\

[The Wolven League]

It'll start over something really dumb, like "you just nuked my capital city for no reason".

FUCKING GANDHI!!!!!

Eeeeeeeeeey Gandhi let's be friends man.

*five minutes later*

oh so this is how FallOut happened

[Valaran]

Presupposes Turks have airspace when their whole nation is where it is through unprovoked jihadi aggression and land theft. Roflmao.

That is a presupposition I like to make

[United Marxist Nations]

If it was a mid-range missile (AIM-120), then it is more-or-less impossible. Travelling at 1.3 km per second, such a missile would have caught the plane probably within about 15-20 seconds, sooner if my estimate of the distance is correct.

Not necessarily. Where was the shooting plane? AIM-120 can shoot up to 97 NM.

Like I said, that is the problem. My estimates based on the maps Const provided and the radar signature provided by the source in the OP indicate anywhere from 15-20 km from where the Russian plane was. This puts it in AIM-9 range, which reduces the speed, but it would still travel at about .9 km per second, which would still indicate that it would have hit the plane within about 25 seconds, which would still indicate that the Russian plane had left, at least for a few seconds, assuming the plane was not travelling at maximum speed.

[Ganos Lao]

While I'll personally withhold judgement on who's responsible for what until there's more information on this, anyone have word on the pilots? For all the tension and political conflict between Russia and the West, we're all still (at least in part) fighting the same battle, and I'd imagine that the crew were just doing their part.

One was apparently dead by the time he landed (probably shot at by rebels). I'm not sure on the other, but iirc, he's alive.

I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but rebels may have killed 'em both. Both were reported to be shot dead while parachuting. A graphic video purporting to show the rebels surrounding the body of one of the pilots whilst "glorifying Allah" and reportedly regretted they hadn’t burned him on the spot is also circulating.

However, it was reported that Jahed Ahmad, a representative of the 10th Brigade in the Coast, the rebel group that attacked the pilots, told AP that at least one of the Russian pilots was dead upon landing.

[Napkiraly]

FUCKING GANDHI!!!!!

True story, I restart any game of Civ that has Gandhi on the map.

Gandhi is the biggest dick in Civ. "Peaceful" my fucking arse, he's basically Major T.J. Kong.

[Greater Novgorod]

It'll start over something really dumb, like "you just nuked my capital city for no reason".

FUCKING GANDHI!!!!!

We will back our threats... with nuclear weapons!

[Valaran]

One was apparently dead by the time he landed (probably shot at by rebels). I'm not sure on the other, but iirc, he's alive.

I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but rebels may have killed 'em both. Both were reported to be shot dead while parachuting. A graphic video purporting to show the rebels surrounding the body of one of the pilots whilst "glorifying Allah" and reportedly regretted they hadn’t burned him on the spot is also circulating.

However, it was reported that Jahed Ahmad, a representative of the 10th Brigade in the Coast, the rebel group that attacked the pilots, told AP that at least one of the Russian pilots was dead upon landing.

I suspect that whatever the exact circumstances, it is doubtful that either will be making it back. Which is pretty crappy.

And yeah, the reports indicate that at least one is dead, most likely due to rebel action.

[United Marxist Nations]

True story, I restart any game of Civ that has Gandhi on the map.

Gandhi is the biggest dick in Civ. "Peaceful" my fucking arse, he's basically Major T.J. Kong.

In Civ III, he would always send units into my territory every single turn, agreeing to remove them if I addressed it in diplomacy. He knew that, after 50 turns, I would get exasperated and declare war.

[Saiwania]

Russia is not our ally. Russia is fighting both our enemy ISIS and our friends. And Russia's goal is to prop up Assad, we want him gone.

It is mostly Obama that wants Assad gone. Now if Trump was in office, he would be more willing to work with Assad or at least wouldn't get in the way of Assad bombing ISIS.

Obama is quoted as saying that he isn't interested in the concept of "victory" thinking that it is too old fashioned. Barack Obama- "I’m always worried about using the word ‘victory,’ because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur.”

[Belhorizon]

According to a press briefing by the Russian Defence Ministry,
Syrian ATC logs show Turkish jets violating Syrian airspace.

Maybe that'll answer some of our questions.

[Napkiraly]

Gandhi is the biggest dick in Civ. "Peaceful" my fucking arse, he's basically Major T.J. Kong.

In Civ III, he would always send units into my territory every single turn, agreeing to remove them if I addressed it in diplomacy. He knew that, after 50 turns, I would get exasperated and declare war.

This is why you have to conquer India early on. Preferably while playing as the British.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Gandhi is the biggest dick in Civ. "Peaceful" my fucking arse, he's basically Major T.J. Kong.

In Civ III, he would always send units into my territory every single turn, agreeing to remove them if I addressed it in diplomacy. He knew that, after 50 turns, I would get exasperated and declare war.

He was like that little kid that would hover his finger right near you while chanting "NOT TOUCHING YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" until you snapped and slapped the taste out of his mouth. KNOWING that it would result in international condemnation of you for being aggressive.

[Ganos Lao]

Russia is not our ally. Russia is fighting both our enemy ISIS and our friends. And Russia's goal is to prop up Assad, we want him gone.

It is mostly Obama that wants Assad gone. Now if Trump was in office, he would be more willing to work with Assad or at least wouldn't get in the way of Assad bombing ISIS.

Obama is quoted as saying that he isn't interested in the concept of "victory" thinking that it is too old fashioned. Barack Obama- "I’m always worried about using the word ‘victory,’ because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur.”

America wants Assad gone (with no clear idea of who should take over, I may add) while the Russians want him to stay. It's a clusterfuck in the making amplified by how it's been suggested the Turks are supporting ISIS such as by buying oil from them.

And because the Turks are vital to American interests, the US will no doubt back them up over the Russians, who will pay them back by only aggravating the situation further by refusing to cooperate, thus leading to this conflict being prolonged and, thus, the existence of ISIS being prolonged.

[Prussoslavia]

Russia is not our ally. Russia is fighting both our enemy ISIS and our friends. And Russia's goal is to prop up Assad, we want him gone.

However, when the French air force bombs both terrorists, and the Syrian army, the Russian pilots don't shoot down their planes.

[Myrensis]

Hey, remember that time Syria shot down a Turkish plane and the Turks, Erdogan himself in particular, were complaining about how minor border incursions in such situations are inevitable and can never be a pretext for an attack? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

So, DOOM! predictions aside...most likely outcomes? Guessing those Turkmen areas Turkey is so eager to protect are going to be making Russian ordinance one of their daily food groups, also possibly heavy weapons and other toys finding their way into the hands of Kurdish militants opposing Turkey.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Russia is not our ally. Russia is fighting both our enemy ISIS and our friends. And Russia's goal is to prop up Assad, we want him gone.

It is mostly Obama that wants Assad gone. Now if Trump was in office, he would be more willing to work with Assad or at least wouldn't get in the way of Assad bombing ISIS.

Obama is quoted as saying that he isn't interested in the concept of "victory" thinking that it is too old fashioned. Barack Obama- "I’m always worried about using the word ‘victory,’ because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur.”

He...He knows Hirohito didn't sign the surrender to MacArthur, right?

[Novus America]

It is mostly Obama that wants Assad gone. Now if Trump was in office, he would be more willing to work with Assad or at least wouldn't get in the way of Assad bombing ISIS.

Obama is quoted as saying that he isn't interested in the concept of "victory" thinking that it is too old fashioned. Barack Obama- "I’m always worried about using the word ‘victory,’ because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur.”

He...He knows Hirohito didn't sign the surrender to MacArthur, right?

Obama is not very good with history... Or much else.

[Prussoslavia]

also possibly heavy weapons and other toys finding their way into the hands of Kurdish militants opposing Turkey.

Perhaps, Putin should start to supply anti-aircraft missile systems to the Kurds.

[Risottia]

Hey, remember that time Syria shot down a Turkish plane and the Turks, Erdogan himself in particular, were complaining about how minor border incursions in such situations are inevitable and can never be a pretext for an attack?

I do.

But four legsTurkey good, two legsRussia baaaaaad.

[Baltenstein]

If only the Cavaliere was here to mediate.



Look at them! Everybody was so much happier back in those days.

[Novus America]

Russia is not our ally. Russia is fighting both our enemy ISIS and our friends. And Russia's goal is to prop up Assad, we want him gone.

However, when the French air force bombs both terrorists, and the Syrian army, the Russian pilots don't shoot down their planes.

Russia is not bombing along the French border and violating French airspace.

Russia trolled one too many times. Ignored warnings. Got the ban hammer.

Russia needs to stop the trolling. And the Turks are much tougher than the French.
Stop fucking with the Turks. They are not pushovers. I hope Russia learned its lesson.

[Visegradian Poland]

Would not trust Russia about the information. Their government is a bunch of liars.