Reports: Turkish F-16s shoot down Russian Su-24

[Belhorizon]

The US White House itself has said that the Russian incursion lasted /SECONDS/.
The Turkish government is lying and provoked Russia.
Period.

Russia is suspending trips to Turkey.
I would be more than glad if they hike up gas prices.

The White House hasn't said dick diddley about it.

It's on the Guardian live stream,
'http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates'

Nonetheless, judging from the flight path; I'd wager the 'breach of airspace' did not last five minutes.
And the flight path was released by the Turks themselves.

[Nupar]

ALL NATIONS: WARNING

Nothing. Just to get your attention[s]. Nupar is new to this world. Can't we all have peace?

[Platypus Reborn]

ALL NATIONS: WARNING

Nothing. Just to get your attention[s]. Nupar is new to this world. Can't we all have peace?

No, you shall be swallowed whole.

[Kraylandia]

Reports suggest the second one was shot as well, others say he was just caught by the terrorists.

No. By Turkmen militias.

Yes, hence why I said terrorists.

[The Emerald Dawn]

The White House hasn't said dick diddley about it.

It's on the Guardian live stream,
'http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates'

Nonetheless, judging from the flight path; I'd wager the 'breach of airspace' did not last five minutes.
And the flight path was released by the Turks themselves.

I've already said the flight path could easily have lasted that long. The radar contacts on the map provided earlier could easily have caused the warnings to last over five minutes.

[Vistulange]

Oh, great.

So, basically, more people stereotyping us for no discernible reason and even more people thinking the Turks are a hivemind who all support Erdoğan and his cronies.

Discussion? What's that? Oh, no, let's bash Turkey and Turkish people because of their nutjob president! It's much more prudent, constructive and productive!

[Valaran]

Since we don't quite know, the warnings might also have started just before the jet entered Turkish airspace. Only a possibility though.

[Novus America]

I think they just landed in rebel territory though, not ISIS/Al-Nusra zones.

Though Turkish media have a video of unidentified rebels apparently shooting at them.

Doesn't really matter which territory they landed in, the rebels are still terrorists and have committed the same heinous crimes as the likes of ISIS and Nusra. I feel incredibly bad for the pilot if he is alive, as he is likely to be tortured.

No. The different groups are different. Some are better, some worse.
And the Assad regime commits just as much terrorism and heinous crimes.
Shooting the pilot was wrong. But the Turkmen must fight back or die. Do you expect them to just sit back and be killed? Have their towns destroyed?

[Belhorizon]

It's on the Guardian live stream,
'http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates'

Nonetheless, judging from the flight path; I'd wager the 'breach of airspace' did not last five minutes.
And the flight path was released by the Turks themselves.

I've already said the flight path could easily have lasted that long. The radar contacts on the map provided earlier could easily have caused the warnings to last over five minutes.

I still think the Turks are bullshitting.
They're now claiming that at the time of the shootdown, the planes were of unknown nationality.
What a convenient way to excuse them of downing a Russian plane.

[Neoconstantius]

Turkey does this shit all the time to Cyprus and Greece. That doesn't justify a shoot-down. That's an act of war.

It does justify a shoot down. Some one violates your airspace, you can shoot them down.

And a shoot down of a violator is not an act of war.

Erdogan is also a dick waver I might add.

There is no precedent to justify such action. In modern air maneuvers it is quite common for planes to enter the airspace of other nations en route to other engagements, as this Russian jet clearly was.

[Spirit of Hope]

It does justify a shoot down. Some one violates your airspace, you can shoot them down.

And a shoot down of a violator is not an act of war.

Erdogan is also a dick waver I might add.

Are you allowed to shoot them down when they aren't in your airspace?

A Su-24's max airspeed is 1,300 km an hour, or a km every 3 seconds or so. I'm assuming that once the missile was fired the Russian jet when to max speed in an attempt to avoid a shoot down. The jet was shot down 1 km outside of Turkish airspace, and crashed 3-4 km outside of Turkey. So the Russian jet was almost certainly fired upon while still inside Turkey, and only exited Turkish airspace a couple of seconds before it was struck.

[Valaran]

Oh, great.

So, basically, more people stereotyping us for no discernible reason and even more people thinking the Turks are a hivemind who all support Erdoğan and his cronies.

Discussion? What's that? Oh, no, let's bash Turkey and Turkish people because of their nutjob president! It's much more prudent, constructive and productive!

Actually, since I've heard a deluge of Russian and Western and opinions, what is the general consensus in Turkey right now, if there is one? And your personal view?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Welp, we had a good c. 200 000 years run.

[Belhorizon]

Turkey does this shit all the time to Cyprus and Greece. That doesn't justify a shoot-down. That's an act of war.

It does justify a shoot down. Some one violates your airspace, you can shoot them down.

And a shoot down of a violator is not an act of war.

Erdogan is also a dick waver I might add.

That's why I'm hoping that Greece gets encouraged to start shooting down Turkish jets.

[Platypus Reborn]

Oh, great.

So, basically, more people stereotyping us for no discernible reason and even more people thinking the Turks are a hivemind who all support Erdoğan and his cronies.

Discussion? What's that? Oh, no, let's bash Turkey and Turkish people because of their nutjob president! It's much more prudent, constructive and productive!

^

[Novus America]

Oh, great.

So, basically, more people stereotyping us for no discernible reason and even more people thinking the Turks are a hivemind who all support Erdoğan and his cronies.

Discussion? What's that? Oh, no, let's bash Turkey and Turkish people because of their nutjob president! It's much more prudent, constructive and productive!

Assad fan boys will be Assad fan boys. It appears Turkey was fully justified here. Just because I do not like Erdogan does not mean Turkey does not have a right to self defense.

[Kraylandia]

Doesn't really matter which territory they landed in, the rebels are still terrorists and have committed the same heinous crimes as the likes of ISIS and Nusra. I feel incredibly bad for the pilot if he is alive, as he is likely to be tortured.

No. The different groups are different. Some are better, some worse.
And the Assad regime commits just as much terrorism and heinous crimes.
Shooting the pilot was wrong. But the Turkmen must fight back or die. Do you expect them to just sit back and be killed? Have their towns destroyed?

The different groups are different. Some are better, some worse.

Yes, that's fair enough. Some are.

And the Assad regime commits just as much terrorism and heinous crimes.

We're talking about "rebels" as you call them here. Not the Assad regime, yes the Assad regime has done some bad things but still better than Islamic fundamentalist scum.

But the Turkmen must fight back or die.

They are still terrorists, and Russia is definitely going to fight back against them to avenge their pilot.

[Valaran]

It does justify a shoot down. Some one violates your airspace, you can shoot them down.

And a shoot down of a violator is not an act of war.

Erdogan is also a dick waver I might add.

That's why I'm hoping that Greece gets encouraged to start shooting down Turkish jets.

How about we don't try to inflame the situation more (because that'll surely be a great idea), and instead lay a proper groundwork to ensure no more incidents occur?

[Paddy O Fernature]

Doesn't matter if the jet was outside it's airspace for a second or an hour, an incursion is still an incursion regardless of duration.

Don't want to get shot at? Stay the fuck out and respect other peoples airspace.

[SD_Film Artists]

Oh, great.

So, basically, more people stereotyping us for no discernible reason and even more people thinking the Turks are a hivemind who all support Erdoğan and his cronies.

Discussion? What's that? Oh, no, let's bash Turkey and Turkish people because of their nutjob president! It's much more prudent, constructive and productive!

If past Turkey threads are anything to judge by, most Turkish NSG users don't support Erdoğan.

[Novus America]

It does justify a shoot down. Some one violates your airspace, you can shoot them down.

And a shoot down of a violator is not an act of war.

Erdogan is also a dick waver I might add.

That's why I'm hoping that Greece gets encouraged to start shooting down Turkish jets.

They can if they can prove a violation. The issue with the Greek Turkey border is it is not clearly demarcated. You have to be sure before you shoot.

And Turkey and Greece are allies. You are more careful with allies than you are with adversaries.

[Plague Doctor Convenant]

13th Russo-Turkish War inbound.

[Imperializt Russia]

Warned ten times in five minutes with no response and a flight path that did not immediately suggest evacuation from the area and transit. Hightailing it once they realize they've pushed their luck too far does not an excuse make.

If Turkey is telling the truth, they may be accused of being trigger-happy, but hardly in the wrong considering every announced policy of the Turkish government for the past year or so.

Well, since the missile hit it over Syrian airspace, and missiles are, like, insanely fast, the plane must have been on the way out by the time the missile was fired, which would definitely indicate transit.

Missiles are insanely fast because they have to catch up to combat aircraft which are merely hilariously fast. Su-24 is a supersonic aircraft and missiles have to be able to deal with targets at up to about Mach 2, hence travelling themselves at Mach 3-4.

Seems as though it must have been a long-range missile launch though?

[The Emerald Dawn]

I've already said the flight path could easily have lasted that long. The radar contacts on the map provided earlier could easily have caused the warnings to last over five minutes.

I still think the Turks are bullshitting.
They're now claiming that at the time of the shootdown, the planes were of unknown nationality.
What a convenient way to excuse them of downing a Russian plane.

Did the Su-24 identify itself?

[Valaran]

We're talking about "rebels" as you call them here. Not the Assad regime, yes the Assad regime has done some bad things but still better than Islamic fundamentalist scum.

They are still terrorists, and Russia is definitely going to fight back against them to avenge their pilot.

Actually it has been generally been acknowledged tthat the regime has conducted more human rights abuses in Syria than the 'general' rebels (not including ISIS).


What acts of terror have they committed that make the Turkmens as bad as ISIS?