Reports: Turkish F-16s shoot down Russian Su-24

[Napkiraly]

I did. It was not the first time. If Russia did not do this shit all the time if multiple countries you might have an argumment.

Multiple violations with warnings is not a mistake.

And yeah. Be careful. Which is why you do not fly that close unless you want to be very careful.

Turkey does this shit all the time to Cyprus and Greece. That doesn't justify a shoot-down. That's an act of war.

It can be used to justify a war, but it won't cause one.

[Bentus]

While I'll personally withhold judgement on who's responsible for what until there's more information on this, anyone have word on the pilots? For all the tension and political conflict between Russia and the West, we're all still (at least in part) fighting the same battle, and I'd imagine that the crew were just doing their part.

[Novus America]

Turkey is absolutely a terrorist-accomplice state with well documented covert and overt support of ISIS and jihadist militias in Syria. Their conduct is completely unacceptable for a NATO member. NATO better take strong action to censure Turkey or risk jeopardizing any kind of working military relationship with Russia in the ME.

Armenian Genocide, Assyrian Genocide, Pontic Genocide, illegal occupation of Cyprus. When will Turkey stop being rewarded and be held accountable for its actions?

Only Cyprus can be argue against the current government. Yeah turkey did bad shit in the past, but Germany did worse. And Russia's last is hardly pretty. Present not past actions are what matters.

And if what Turkey says is true this was totally justified and NATO must defend them against Russian violations of their air space.

[Valaran]

While I'll personally withhold judgement on who's responsible for what until there's more information on this, anyone have word on the pilots? For all the tension and political conflict between Russia and the West, we're all still (at least in part) fighting the same battle, and I'd imagine that the crew were just doing their part.

One was apparently dead by the time he landed (probably shot at by rebels). I'm not sure on the other, but iirc, he's alive.

[United Marxist Nations]

While I'll personally withhold judgement on who's responsible for what until there's more information on this, anyone have word on the pilots? For all the tension and political conflict between Russia and the West, we're all still (at least in part) fighting the same battle, and I'd imagine that the crew were just doing their part.

It seems one pilot was found dead by rebels.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Warned ten times in five minutes with no response and a flight path that did not immediately suggest evacuation from the area and transit. Hightailing it once they realize they've pushed their luck too far does not an excuse make.

If Turkey is telling the truth, they may be accused of being trigger-happy, but hardly in the wrong considering every announced policy of the Turkish government for the past year or so.

Also iirc they changed their engagement policy over matters such as this after one of their planes was shot down in 2012 or 2013 by the Syrian regime iirc.

Still a rather self-defeating policy, I'm looking forward to watching Secretary General Rasmussen publicly power-bomb the Turkish attaché.

[Kraylandia]

While I'll personally withhold judgement on who's responsible for what until there's more information on this, anyone have word on the pilots? For all the tension and political conflict between Russia and the West, we're all still (at least in part) fighting the same battle, and I'd imagine that the crew were just doing their part.

One was apparently dead by the time he landed (probably shot at by rebels). I'm not sure on the other, but iirc, he's alive.

Reports suggest the second one was shot as well, others say he was just caught by the terrorists.

[Minoa]

Nostradamus this, Nostradamus that, Nostradamus predicts, Nostradamus gets banned… the Nostradamus thing is getting me exasperated.

[Belhorizon]

The US White House itself has said that the Russian incursion lasted /SECONDS/.
The Turkish government is lying and provoked Russia.
Period.

Russia is suspending trips to Turkey.
I would be more than glad if they hike up gas prices.

[Napkiraly]

While I'll personally withhold judgement on who's responsible for what until there's more information on this, anyone have word on the pilots? For all the tension and political conflict between Russia and the West, we're all still (at least in part) fighting the same battle, and I'd imagine that the crew were just doing their part.

Some say one is dead (apparently they were shot at on their way down, which is horrendous and those who carried it out punished) while Turkey says both are alive. Personally I think one of them is dead, the other don't know about, most likely a prisoner.

[Novus America]

I did. It was not the first time. If Russia did not do this shit all the time if multiple countries you might have an argumment.

Multiple violations with warnings is not a mistake.

And yeah. Be careful. Which is why you do not fly that close unless you want to be very careful.

Turkey does this shit all the time to Cyprus and Greece. That doesn't justify a shoot-down. That's an act of war.

It does justify a shoot down. Some one violates your airspace, you can shoot them down.

And a shoot down of a violator is not an act of war.

Erdogan is also a dick waver I might add.

[Valaran]

One was apparently dead by the time he landed (probably shot at by rebels). I'm not sure on the other, but iirc, he's alive.

Reports suggest the second one was shot as well, others say he was just caught by the terrorists.

I think they just landed in rebel territory though, not ISIS/Al-Nusra zones.

Though Turkish media have a video of unidentified rebels apparently shooting at them.

[The Emerald Dawn]

The US White House itself has said that the Russian incursion lasted /SECONDS/.
The Turkish government is lying and provoked Russia.
Period.

Russia is suspending trips to Turkey.
I would be more than glad if they hike up gas prices.

The White House hasn't said dick diddley about it.

[Napkiraly]

The US White House itself has said that the Russian incursion lasted /SECONDS/.

Source?

[Napkiraly]

Also iirc they changed their engagement policy over matters such as this after one of their planes was shot down in 2012 or 2013 by the Syrian regime iirc.

Still a rather self-defeating policy, I'm looking forward to watching Secretary General Rasmussen publicly power-bomb the Turkish attaché.

But you can understand why they'd be more jumpy about things and have made their intentions perfectly clear.

[United Marxist Nations]

Turkey does this shit all the time to Cyprus and Greece. That doesn't justify a shoot-down. That's an act of war.

It does justify a shoot down. Some one violates your airspace, you can shoot them down.

And a shoot down of a violator is not an act of war.

Erdogan is also a dick waver I might add.

Are you allowed to shoot them down when they aren't in your airspace?

[Kauthar]

RUSSIAN LIBERATION OF CONSTANTINOPLE?????

[Kraylandia]

Reports suggest the second one was shot as well, others say he was just caught by the terrorists.

I think they just landed in rebel territory though, not ISIS/Al-Nusra zones.

Though Turkish media have a video of unidentified rebels apparently shooting at them.

Doesn't really matter which territory they landed in, the rebels are still terrorists and have committed the same heinous crimes as the likes of ISIS and Nusra. I feel incredibly bad for the pilot if he is alive, as he is likely to be tortured.

[Valaran]

Still a rather self-defeating policy, I'm looking forward to watching Secretary General Rasmussen publicly power-bomb the Turkish attaché.

But you can understand why they'd be more jumpy about things and have made their intentions perfectly clear.

I understand, but right now, I'm hoping that this provides the impetus to have it changed.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Still a rather self-defeating policy, I'm looking forward to watching Secretary General Rasmussen publicly power-bomb the Turkish attaché.

But you can understand why they'd be more jumpy about things and have made their intentions perfectly clear.

I definitely would support Turkey having DEFPATs along their border. Hell, I'd support NATO flying them to promote intra-organizational coordination.

NATO working with Turkey after that may have avoided this whole mess. I'd imagine someone flying under a NATO command would have been told to chase them off, rather than introduce them to Mister SAAM.

[Kingdom of Kemal]

The Russian jets were bombing Syrian Turkmen positions and the jet did fly into Turkish Air Space. The Syrian Turkmen are opponents of Al Assad and the Islamic State. They fight alongside the Kurdish fighters. Turkmen are Turks who stayed in Syria after the Ottoman collapse. Unlike other countries who are too chicken shit to take on Russia when they violate their airspace, Turkey sent a clear message. Don't enter our Air Space.

[Kar-Esseria]

Well, nobody said Erdogan was a smart man.

[Novus America]

One was apparently dead by the time he landed (probably shot at by rebels). I'm not sure on the other, but iirc, he's alive.

Reports suggest the second one was shot as well, others say he was just caught by the terrorists.

No. By Turkmen militias.

[Valaran]

I think they just landed in rebel territory though, not ISIS/Al-Nusra zones.

Though Turkish media have a video of unidentified rebels apparently shooting at them.

Doesn't really matter which territory they landed in, the rebels are still terrorists and have committed the same heinous crimes as the likes of ISIS and Nusra..

uhh, mate.

I'm not exactly an advocate for the disparate groups that comprise of the Syrian opposition, but that's not completely true. A lot have opposed ISIS, at our behest, and to simply lump the ones fighting ISIS with ISIS isn't anything I'd suggest saying.

Also, there's no evidence that all rebel groups would espouse torture of a Russian pilot.

[Valaran]

I'd imagine someone flying under a NATO command would have been told to chase them off, rather than introduce them to Mister SAAM.

Certainly that's what the RAF, Scandinavian & Baltic states do when they face Russian incursions. I'd very much support a system wide implementation of that policy here.