Reports: Turkish F-16s shoot down Russian Su-24

[Constantinopolis]

Don't use metaphors if you don't know how to use metaphors properly.

While the metaphor is far from perfect, Putin needs to be more careful waving his metaphorical dick around and sticking it in everyone's face.

Did you even look at the radar map?



The Russian jet only just clipped a tiny corner of Turkish airspace while obviously in transit from one part of Syria to another part of Syria (located only a few km away).

This wasn't Putin waving his metaphorical genitals around, this was a Russian pilot taking a shortcut or maybe flying a little further north than planned, and Turkey going all "YOU SET ONE FOOT ON MY LAND, I KEEEEL YOU".

[United Marxist Nations]

So, they shot it down over Syrian territory, well after it had exited Turkish airspace?

Which is part of the issue, it was clearly an airframe in transit.

Proper protocol would be escort to prevent further incursions and verify intentions, that would be what the US would do if an Su-24 accidentally strayed through the Bering.

The Su-24 would wave and acknowledge the fighter escort, they'd chat while flying, and then the Su-24 would fuck off back to wherever.

Turkey decided instead to clear hot their F-16 pilot, at least, I hope someone in their chain gave them hot clearance. If the F-16 pilot decided on his own to do this, he needs to be punished.

Thank you, that clarifies things quite a bit. I suppose a question in the coming hours/days will be where things went wrong. If it were the pilot, that would be worrying for Turkish military professionalism.

[Kraylandia]

That was just...awful.

Do you want to see something really awful?
Look in a mirror.

What an excellent, pleasant and well-thought out response. You've really cheered me up with your positivity, that's just made my night, no actually scratch that, my entire week.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Which is part of the issue, it was clearly an airframe in transit.

Proper protocol would be escort to prevent further incursions and verify intentions, that would be what the US would do if an Su-24 accidentally strayed through the Bering.

The Su-24 would wave and acknowledge the fighter escort, they'd chat while flying, and then the Su-24 would fuck off back to wherever.

Turkey decided instead to clear hot their F-16 pilot, at least, I hope someone in their chain gave them hot clearance. If the F-16 pilot decided on his own to do this, he needs to be punished.

Thank you, that clarifies things quite a bit. I suppose a question in the coming hours/days will be where things went wrong. If it were the pilot, that would be worrying for Turkish military professionalism.

Glad to have helped. May as well get some use out of the experience I have, no?

[Valaran]

Dangerous times.

Given that this is such a tight corner of airspace, with so many nations operating inside it, incidents were bound to occur without the proper safeguards. I really hope those safeguards will now be introduced between Russian and Western (+allies) airforces.

[Conserative Morality]

Did you even look at the radar map?

The Russian jet just clipped a tiny corner of Turkish airspace while obviously in transit from one part of Syria to another part of Syria (located only a few km away).

This wasn't Putin waving his metaphorical genitals around, this was a Russian pilot taking a shortcut or maybe flying a little further north than planned, and Turkey going all "YOU SET ONE FOOT ON MY LAND, I KEEEEL YOU".

Warned ten times in five minutes with no response and a flight path that did not immediately suggest evacuation from the area and transit. Hightailing it once they realize they've pushed their luck too far does not an excuse make.

If Turkey is telling the truth, they may be accused of being trigger-happy, but hardly in the wrong considering every announced policy of the Turkish government for the past year or so.

[The Emerald Dawn]

They did receive ten warnings and refused to respond while violating the airspace of a country that had very recently announced its intention to treat all possible threats from the south of its border as hostile and who'd shot down multiple airspace violators in the recent past.

I don't really know what the Russian government expects to have happened.

It's really rather unprofessional to shoot down an Su-24 with no hostile intentions to your territory.

National pride aside, it's a bit like sending Ray Guy out to punt someone's puppy for walking on your sidewalk.

[Conserative Morality]

It's really rather unprofessional to shoot down an Su-24 with no hostile intentions to your territory.

National pride aside, it's a bit like sending Ray Guy out to punt someone's puppy for walking on your sidewalk.

Considering Turkey's long history of harsh responses to minor issues of national sovereignty, I think the puppy should at least be crossing the ten-yard line of a football field.

[Mike from Progressive]

I think this is how world wars start.

[Valaran]

I would float the possibility that Erdogan doesn't mind his airforce taking quite a harsh line against Russian incursions. He has not inconsiderable incentives to 'allow' such incidents to occur - the increased prospects of Western/Russian rapprochement over Syria post Paris would go against Turkey's stauncher opposition to Assad, and Russia and Turkey compete over several regions (noteworthy that Chechnya's strongman took the time to condemn this as well).

[The Emerald Dawn]

It's really rather unprofessional to shoot down an Su-24 with no hostile intentions to your territory.

National pride aside, it's a bit like sending Ray Guy out to punt someone's puppy for walking on your sidewalk.

Considering Turkey's long history of harsh responses to minor issues of national sovereignty, I think the puppy should at least be crossing the ten-yard line of a football field.

So, rather than be professional, escort the aircraft out of your airspace, and set up an air patrol in the contested nub of your territory to persuade the Russians to stop being dicks, you'd espouse creating an international incident?

[United Marxist Nations]

Did you even look at the radar map?

The Russian jet just clipped a tiny corner of Turkish airspace while obviously in transit from one part of Syria to another part of Syria (located only a few km away).

This wasn't Putin waving his metaphorical genitals around, this was a Russian pilot taking a shortcut or maybe flying a little further north than planned, and Turkey going all "YOU SET ONE FOOT ON MY LAND, I KEEEEL YOU".

Warned ten times in five minutes with no response and a flight path that did not immediately suggest evacuation from the area and transit. Hightailing it once they realize they've pushed their luck too far does not an excuse make.

If Turkey is telling the truth, they may be accused of being trigger-happy, but hardly in the wrong considering every announced policy of the Turkish government for the past year or so.

Well, since the missile hit it over Syrian airspace, and missiles are, like, insanely fast, the plane must have been on the way out by the time the missile was fired, which would definitely indicate transit.

[Valaran]

Considering Turkey's long history of harsh responses to minor issues of national sovereignty, I think the puppy should at least be crossing the ten-yard line of a football field.

So, rather than be professional, escort the aircraft out of your airspace, and set up an air patrol in the contested nub of your territory to persuade the Russians to stop being dicks, you'd espouse creating an international incident?

That's what Western jets would do, but I imagine Turkey is more minded for displays of force along this border, not professionalism.

Obviously, that's not the best idea... but hopefully we'll get cooperation after this, so no more such incidents happen.

[Constantinopolis]

Did you even look at the radar map?

The Russian jet just clipped a tiny corner of Turkish airspace while obviously in transit from one part of Syria to another part of Syria (located only a few km away).

This wasn't Putin waving his metaphorical genitals around, this was a Russian pilot taking a shortcut or maybe flying a little further north than planned, and Turkey going all "YOU SET ONE FOOT ON MY LAND, I KEEEEL YOU".

Warned ten times in five minutes with no response

Yeah, about that.

Looking at the map, there is absolutely no way that Turkey is telling the truth about BOTH the flight path AND the "ten warnings in five minutes" thing. Look at the scale of the map from the BBC that I just edited into my post above. The total length of the Russian jet's flight path over Turkish airspace was maybe 5-8 kilometers at most, and that's pushing it.

And the Turks are saying it took an Su-24 five whole minutes to fly that distance? That would imply it was flying slower than the average speed of a car on the highway.

[Conserative Morality]

So, rather than be professional, escort the aircraft out of your airspace, and set up an air patrol in the contested nub of your territory to persuade the Russians to stop being dicks, you'd espouse creating an international incident?

Would I? No. If this was an American incident I'd say it was crazy. But if Turkey announces its attention to be 'unprofessional' and not tolerate any violations of Turkish airspace, proves it by downing multiple aircraft that violated its airspace, and then finds some jet heading north over the Turkish border (and again, ten warnings, no response), I really can't say I've a lot of sympathy for the Russian jet barring technical failure.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Warned ten times in five minutes with no response

Yeah, about that.

Looking at the map, there is absolutely no way that Turkey is telling the truth about BOTH the flight path AND the "ten warnings in five minutes" thing. Look at the scale of the map from the BBC that I just edited into my post above. The total length of the Russian jet's flight path over Turkish airspace was maybe 5-8 kilometers at most, and that's pushing it.

And the Turks are saying it took an Su-24 five whole minutes to fly that distance? That would imply it was flying slower than the average speed of a car on the highway.

If you follow the plot, it's azimuth was taking it further into Turkey before it changed direction to head back south, then changed direction again to head west.

Yeah, I'd buy the timeline for the response.

Warning that it is approaching Turkey's airspace, warning that it has violated Turkey's airspace, warning that a response has been activated.

Ten minutes or so is about right.

[Conserative Morality]

Yeah, about that.

Looking at the map, there is absolutely no way that Turkey is telling the truth about BOTH the flight path AND the "ten warnings in five minutes" thing. Look at the scale of the map from the BBC that I just edited into my post above. The total length of the Russian jet's flight path over Turkish airspace was maybe 5-8 kilometers at most, and that's pushing it.

And the Turks are saying it took an Su-24 five whole minutes to fly that distance? That would imply it was flying slower than the average speed of a car on the highway.

The Beeb is saying that the US coalition leader against ISIS in the area has confirmed the ten warnings, but not the flight path.

[Neoconstantius]

Turkey is absolutely a terrorist-accomplice state with well documented covert and overt support of ISIS and jihadist militias in Syria. Their conduct is completely unacceptable for a NATO member. NATO better take strong action to censure Turkey or risk jeopardizing any kind of working military relationship with Russia in the ME.

Armenian Genocide, Assyrian Genocide, Pontic Genocide, illegal occupation of Cyprus. When will Turkey stop being rewarded and be held accountable for its actions?

[Novus America]

While the metaphor is far from perfect, Putin needs to be more careful waving his metaphorical dick around and sticking it in everyone's face.

Did you even look at the radar map?



The Russian jet only just clipped a tiny corner of Turkish airspace while obviously in transit from one part of Syria to another part of Syria (located only a few km away).

This wasn't Putin waving his metaphorical genitals around, this was a Russian pilot taking a shortcut or maybe flying a little further north than planned, and Turkey going all "YOU SET ONE FOOT ON MY LAND, I KEEEEL YOU".

I did. It was not the first time. If Russia did not do this shit all the time if multiple countries you might have an argumment.

Multiple violations with warnings is not a mistake.

And yeah. Be careful. Which is why you do not fly that close unless you want to be very careful.

[Neoconstantius]

Did you even look at the radar map?



The Russian jet only just clipped a tiny corner of Turkish airspace while obviously in transit from one part of Syria to another part of Syria (located only a few km away).

This wasn't Putin waving his metaphorical genitals around, this was a Russian pilot taking a shortcut or maybe flying a little further north than planned, and Turkey going all "YOU SET ONE FOOT ON MY LAND, I KEEEEL YOU".

I did. It was not the first time. If Russia did not do this shit all the time if multiple countries you might have an argumment.

Multiple violations with warnings is not a mistake.

And yeah. Be careful. Which is why you do not fly that close unless you want to be very careful.

Turkey does this shit all the time to Cyprus and Greece. That doesn't justify a shoot-down. That's an act of war.

[Lipnitia]

Well, Nostradamus did predict unrest from 20-30 November, especially in the south of Europe.

[Mike from Progressive]

Well, Nostradamus did predict unrest from 20-30 November, especially in the south of Europe.

Please don't...

[Lipnitia]

Well, Nostradamus did predict unrest from 20-30 November, especially in the south of Europe.

Please don't...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/598 ... Hitler-war

[Valaran]

Please don't...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/598 ... Hitler-war

Oh, come on.

[Napkiraly]

Did you even look at the radar map?

The Russian jet just clipped a tiny corner of Turkish airspace while obviously in transit from one part of Syria to another part of Syria (located only a few km away).

This wasn't Putin waving his metaphorical genitals around, this was a Russian pilot taking a shortcut or maybe flying a little further north than planned, and Turkey going all "YOU SET ONE FOOT ON MY LAND, I KEEEEL YOU".

Warned ten times in five minutes with no response and a flight path that did not immediately suggest evacuation from the area and transit. Hightailing it once they realize they've pushed their luck too far does not an excuse make.

If Turkey is telling the truth, they may be accused of being trigger-happy, but hardly in the wrong considering every announced policy of the Turkish government for the past year or so.

Also iirc they changed their engagement policy over matters such as this after one of their planes was shot down in 2012 or 2013 by the Syrian regime iirc.