Reports: Turkish F-16s shoot down Russian Su-24

[Clande]

What do you mean? Russia isn't going to go to war with Turkey over this. If anything, Turkish officials might be summoned to Moscow for a "please explain", Turkey will repeat that it was within its rights to protect its airspace and Russia will deny this. It's not the first time the Russian military has accidentally wandered into another country uninvited.

If the Turkish Air Force had to warn the pilots of the Su-24 for 10 minutes saying "cross this imaginary line and we'll shoot you" and the Russians didn't listen, Moscow has got no one else but its own pilots to blame.

I really doubt that Russia's jet crossed Turkish territory. We'll find out the truth in the coming days, but I'm actually going to back Russia's side of the argument here (something I never thought I'd say, considering my "Russophobia"), that the jet was above Syrian territory the entire time.

No Russia won't invade Turkey, but it's pretty obvious that Turkey isolating themselves even further with this move. Turkey has no friends.

Well, Turkey is supported by NATO countries and, If I am not wrong, other anti Assad countries such as the Saudi.

[Dakini]

Turkey and Russia are not at war so no need to have done this. Like I posted before, the Turks are just angry because the Syrians and Russians are hitting the Turkmen Syrian rebels. Turkey consider themselves the protectors of all ethnic Turks. They could care less about Kurds, Armenian, Arab Syrian Arab but you better not lay a hand on any ethnic Turk.

It's sort of funny because this is the sort of reason that Russia used to justify hopping right into Crimea (except that Ukraine wasn't attacking Russian Crimeans... and also Russia has been ignoring Turkey's airspace for a while).

[Kanaria]

It's a dick move. I've seen pictures of the apparent flight path of the SU-24, and they couldn't have clipped Turkey for more than a minute.
Why shoot the plane down, though?

>advanced SU-24 GPS.
https://gyazo.com/9baa466404880516f80dfd294470f3e2

This is the funniest thing i have ever seen.

What kinda fighter-jet company fails to install a fucking GPS in the fucking plane?
Seriously, Sukhoi...

[Fartsniffage]

It's a dick move. I've seen pictures of the apparent flight path of the SU-24, and they couldn't have clipped Turkey for more than a minute.
Why shoot the plane down, though?

>advanced SU-24 GPS.
https://gyazo.com/9baa466404880516f80dfd294470f3e2

This is the funniest thing i have ever seen.

What kinda fighter-jet company fails to install a fucking GPS in the fucking plane?
Seriously, Sukhoi...

The kind that built the planes before GPS was a thing?

Also, why would a plane manufacturer building airframes designed to fight the people who control GPS rely on it?

[The balkens]

It's a dick move. I've seen pictures of the apparent flight path of the SU-24, and they couldn't have clipped Turkey for more than a minute.
Why shoot the plane down, though?

>advanced SU-24 GPS.
https://gyazo.com/9baa466404880516f80dfd294470f3e2

This is the funniest thing i have ever seen.

What kinda fighter-jet company fails to install a fucking GPS in the fucking plane?
Seriously, Sukhoi...

a Garmin GPS.

Russias halfassed Radar/GPS probably got these men killed.

[The balkens]

It's a dick move. I've seen pictures of the apparent flight path of the SU-24, and they couldn't have clipped Turkey for more than a minute.
Why shoot the plane down, though?

What kinda fighter-jet company fails to install a fucking GPS in the fucking plane?
Seriously, Sukhoi...

The kind that built the planes before GPS was a thing?

Also, why would a plane manufacturer building airframes designed to fight the people who control GPS rely on it?

What kind of Company doesnt offer a Package to modernize them?

[Fartsniffage]

The kind that built the planes before GPS was a thing?

Also, why would a plane manufacturer building airframes designed to fight the people who control GPS rely on it?

What kind of Company doesnt offer a Package to modernize them?

It has. Not all airframes have been upgraded. The majority haven't in fact.

[The balkens]

What kind of Company doesnt offer a Package to modernize them?

It has. Not all airframes have been upgraded. The majority haven't in fact.

Gee i wonder why Russia hasnt upgraded the rest? And why are they sending old airframes into Combat where the SU-25,34 could probably do just fine?

[New Carloso]

Yeah, I hope people realise that the variant of the Sukhoi Su-24 that Russia operates are equipped with GLONASS, the Russian equivalent of GPS, in this case the subvariants of the Su-24M.

[Fartsniffage]

Yeah, I hope people realise that the variant of the Sukhoi Su-24 that Russia operates are equipped with GLONASS, the Russian equivalent of GPS, in this case the subvariants of the Su-24M.

Some of them are. The majority received their last upgrade in the 70's and I'm pretty sure GLONASS wasn't a thing then...

[Rio Cana]

Turkey and Russia are not at war so no need to have done this. Like I posted before, the Turks are just angry because the Syrians and Russians are hitting the Turkmen Syrian rebels. Turkey consider themselves the protectors of all ethnic Turks. They could care less about Kurds, Armenian, Arab Syrian Arab but you better not lay a hand on any ethnic Turk.

It's sort of funny because this is the sort of reason that Russia used to justify hopping right into Crimea (except that Ukraine wasn't attacking Russian Crimeans... and also Russia has been ignoring Turkey's airspace for a while).

But the Crimea is full of Russians. Historically, it has been Russian since it was annexed to Imperial Russia. When Soviet premier Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, ceded Crimea from Soviet Russia to Soviet Ukraine he did it without even holding a referendum. Khrushchev must have known that it did not really matter if Crimea was part of Soviet Ukraine or Soviet Russia since in the end it would still be under the Soviet flag. But this all changed when Ukraine decided to separate. No longer would the Russians have any control over Crimea.

For what its worth, at least the Russians had a referendum.

[Prussoslavia]

RT has been called a propaganda outlet for the Russian government[10][11][12] and its foreign policy[10][11][13][14] by former Russian officials[15] and by news reporters,[16] including former RT reporters.[17][18][19] It has also been accused of spreading disinformation.[20][21][22] The United Kingdom media regulator Ofcom has threatened RT with sanctions because of repeated violations of its rules on impartiality.[23] The network states that it offers a "Russian perspective" on global events.[24]

Yeah, of course, Wiki never lie.
And who claim this? See the links: BBC, CNN etc.
It's really bias and unconvincing. Especially [15].

[Planita]

Yeah, of course, Wiki never lie.
And who claim this? See the links: BBC, CNN etc.
It's really bias and unconvincing. Especially [15].

RT is only the true source *nods*

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Fucking Turkey.

I'm not a fan of either of them, but Turkey seriously fucked up on this one. I won't shed any tears if Russia smacks that Salafist-sympathizing country around a bit either.

[Alvecia]

Yeah, of course, Wiki never lie.
And who claim this? See the links: BBC, CNN etc.
It's really bias and unconvincing. Especially [15].

All sources, 10-23, are:

10- http://www.cjr.org/feature/what_is_russ ... p?page=all
11- http://www.spiegel.de/international/bus ... 16162.html
12- http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-new ... 1-12-2005/
13- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/d ... a-ad-blitz
14- http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/busin ... anted=all&
15- http://www.aim.org/aim-column/kgb-tv-to ... arine-vet/
16- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26546083
17- http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/j ... n-malaysia
18- http://edition.cnn.com/videos/bestoftv/ ... -chaos.cnn
19- http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/how-t ... .yhMWZ0eWL
20- http://www.businessinsider.com/state-de ... R=T#!HDahV
21- http://time.com/84843/vladimir-putin-russia-propaganda/
22- http://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/ukrai ... 4_1_en.htm
23- http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/n ... e-coverage

Admittedly, some are questionable, however all of them together from a wide variety of sources present a reasonable case against RT.
If you wish to discredit the claim, first discredit every article here.

Minus the buzzfeed one. That one I'll concede without question.

[Tmutarakhan]

I'm not seeing any Daesh flags, so...

There are islamistic paroles on the flags. Also, there is no difference between the "moderate opposition" and Daesh. They all need to be destroyed.

Of course, Daesh invented the Arabic script, and nobody else has ever used it.

[Prussoslavia]

Yeah, of course, Wiki never lie.
And who claim this? See the links: BBC, CNN etc.
It's really bias and unconvincing. Especially [15].

RT is only the true source *nods*

Not only. But I've seen enough to be convinced of the falsity of the most part of foreign media.

[Tmutarakhan]

It's sort of funny because this is the sort of reason that Russia used to justify hopping right into Crimea (except that Ukraine wasn't attacking Russian Crimeans... and also Russia has been ignoring Turkey's airspace for a while).

But the Crimea is full of Russians. Historically, it has been Russian since it was annexed to Imperial Russia. When Soviet premier Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, ceded Crimea from Soviet Russia to Soviet Ukraine he did it without even holding a referendum. Khrushchev must have known that it did not really matter if Crimea was part of Soviet Ukraine or Soviet Russia since in the end it would still be under the Soviet flag. But this all changed when Ukraine decided to separate. No longer would the Russians have any control over Crimea.

For what its worth, at least the Russians had a referendum.

When Ukraine became independent, Russia agreed to recognize its existing borders in return for Ukraine surrendering all the nuclear weaponry it inherited from the USSR. By annexing Crimea, Russia violated this agreement and has no grounds for complaint if Ukraine builds or purchases nukes now.

[Videssos]

Yeah, of course, Wiki never lie.
And who claim this? See the links: BBC, CNN etc.
It's really bias and unconvincing. Especially [15].

RT is only the true source *nods*

Indeed.

In regards to the BBC, I tend not to trust them, and I live in England, so I end up seeing a lot of that biased reporting pretty much most of the time I care to turn the TV on in the morning.
On a related note regarding the BBC, I found this.

[Prussoslavia]

But the Crimea is full of Russians. Historically, it has been Russian since it was annexed to Imperial Russia. When Soviet premier Khrushchev, a Ukrainian, ceded Crimea from Soviet Russia to Soviet Ukraine he did it without even holding a referendum. Khrushchev must have known that it did not really matter if Crimea was part of Soviet Ukraine or Soviet Russia since in the end it would still be under the Soviet flag. But this all changed when Ukraine decided to separate. No longer would the Russians have any control over Crimea.

For what its worth, at least the Russians had a referendum.

When Ukraine became independent, Russia agreed to recognize its existing borders in return for Ukraine surrendering all the nuclear weaponry it inherited from the USSR. By annexing Crimea, Russia violated this agreement and has no grounds for complaint if Ukraine builds or purchases nukes now.

But what about referendum and the right of peoples to self-determination?

[Liberty and Linguistics]

Fucking Turkey.

I'm not a fan of either of them, but Turkey seriously fucked up on this one. I won't shed any tears if Russia smacks that Salafist-sympathizing country around a bit either.

God dammit, I just agreed with Pruss.

Next thing you know, pigs will fly, and Nick Cage will star in a fantastic movie.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Fucking Turkey.

I'm not a fan of either of them, but Turkey seriously fucked up on this one. I won't shed any tears if Russia smacks that Salafist-sympathizing country around a bit either.

God dammit, I just agreed with Pruss.

Next thing you know, pigs will fly, and Nick Cage will star in a fantastic movie.

I'm still working on the first one, but The Rock is quite good.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Yeah, of course, Wiki never lie.
And who claim this? See the links: BBC, CNN etc.
It's really bias and unconvincing. Especially [15].

All sources, 10-23, are:

10- http://www.cjr.org/feature/what_is_russ ... p?page=all
11- http://www.spiegel.de/international/bus ... 16162.html
12- http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-new ... 1-12-2005/
13- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/d ... a-ad-blitz
14- http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/busin ... anted=all&
15- http://www.aim.org/aim-column/kgb-tv-to ... arine-vet/
16- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26546083
17- http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/j ... n-malaysia
18- http://edition.cnn.com/videos/bestoftv/ ... -chaos.cnn
19- http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/how-t ... .yhMWZ0eWL
20- http://www.businessinsider.com/state-de ... R=T#!HDahV
21- http://time.com/84843/vladimir-putin-russia-propaganda/
22- http://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/ukrai ... 4_1_en.htm
23- http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/n ... e-coverage

Admittedly, some are questionable, however all of them together from a wide variety of sources present a reasonable case against RT.
If you wish to discredit the claim, first discredit every article here.

Minus the buzzfeed one. That one I'll concede without question.

Heh, Buzzfeed.

[Prussoslavia]

RT is only the true source *nods*

Indeed.

In regards to the BBC, I tend not to trust them, and I live in England, so I end up seeing a lot of that biased reporting pretty much most of the time I care to turn the TV on in the morning.
On a related note regarding the BBC, I found this.

[Alvecia]

RT is only the true source *nods*

Not only. But I've seen enough to be convinced of the falsity of the most part of foreign media.

Yet stubbornly cling to the idea that a state-funded new organisation with a history of twisting the facts is completely reliable. Your bias is showing.