Clock kid sues for $15 million

[The Emerald Dawn]

Looks like a dildo to me.

You have very specific sexual fetishes.

I agree.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

At no stage was this clock ever treated like a bomb.

The police are also at fault.

I fail to see what that has to do with anything.

I'm sure that'll make a huge difference if this goes to court.

No it's not.

No it's not.

No it's not.

No it's not.

Millions of dollars seems a perfectly reasonable compensation for having one's civil rights violated, or do you think that the school and city should suffer no negative consequences for violating someone's civil rights? And whether he got support or free stuff is irrelevant to whether he is owed compensation for having his civil rights violated.


Is looking like it's pretty baseless.

You're shitting me.

First off, how is moving to Qatar after everything that happened not essentially giving a finger to the US?

But more importantly, do you have no grasp on proportionality? If a country started handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully arrested by police, that country would be broke. Asking for $15 million right after ditching the country is a huge slap in the face and "fuck you" to America. And how the hell is the school supposed to pay for that? It'd probably end up having to shut down.

I'm sorry, but you're being completely unreasonable here.

It's not giving a middle finger to the U.S. It's going somewhere where they're less likely to be targeted as possible terrorists simply due to their religion.

If the country started handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully arrested by the police, maybe liability insurance would be such an issue that cities would find ways to cut down on the number of wrongful arrests. Also, this wasn't just a wrongful arrest: He was questioned without Miranda warnings, without an attorney present, without a child advocate present, and his father was denied access to him during questioning.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And like I said, that is a valid excuse if you believe My Little Pony and fucking Jack Frost are real.

I reject the terminology of ''excuse,'' no one is expected to have technical knowledge on how a bomb looks like; the only depictions of bombs most of us have seen are in the movies. So if it could appear to be an IED (if at least some people would have thought so) and the people involved say they got that impression, its completely acceptable and understandable.

Everyone should have technical knowledge about a simple circuit.

Fuck, people should have at least a passing knowledge about how a fucking grenade works. Michael Bay has literally made explosions into a successful trope in America.

You can't reasonably sit there and talk about how people shouldn't be expected to have technical knowledge of shit when America is literally addicted to things that go boom.

[Italios]

I'd ask "what is that" instead of jumping to the conclusion that it's a bomb.

A valid arguement. On the other hand, if it had been a bomb, not doing anything could have gotten your students killed. With it not being a bomb the clock was looked at by a professional and the pupil questioned. Seeing as it was not, he was let go. This seems normal to me xD

He was let go? What about that he wasn't allowed to call his parents before the interrogation? What about all the other rights he had that were violated?

Seriously though, jumping to conclusions is the whole reason why this thing ended the way it did. If the teacher has calmly asked him "what is it" instead running around like a headless chicken, none of this would have happened.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'd ask "what is that" instead of jumping to the conclusion that it's a bomb.

A valid arguement. On the other hand, if it had been a bomb, not doing anything could have gotten your students killed. With it not being a bomb the clock was looked at by a professional and the pupil questioned. Seeing as it was not, he was let go. This seems normal to me xD

If you were offended by the suitcase terminology, well... call it briefcase, case, small case... it has a handle do your pencilcases have handles?

Some of them do, yes.

[The Emerald Dawn]

I reject the terminology of ''excuse,'' no one is expected to have technical knowledge on how a bomb looks like; the only depictions of bombs most of us have seen are in the movies. So if it could appear to be an IED (if at least some people would have thought so) and the people involved say they got that impression, its completely acceptable and understandable.

Everyone should have technical knowledge about a simple circuit.

Fuck, people should have at least a passing knowledge about how a fucking grenade works. Michael Bay has literally made explosions into a successful trope in America.

You can't reasonably sit there and talk about how people should have technical knowledge of shit when America is literally addicted to things that go boom.

Fun thought experiment:

You have to put explosives in that pencil case, where exactly do you hide them in the lining? There isn't enough space for sufficient semtex to blow his fucking nose, let alone the room.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Everyone should have technical knowledge about a simple circuit.

Fuck, people should have at least a passing knowledge about how a fucking grenade works. Michael Bay has literally made explosions into a successful trope in America.

You can't reasonably sit there and talk about how people should have technical knowledge of shit when America is literally addicted to things that go boom.

Fun thought experiment:

You have to put explosives in that pencil case, where exactly do you hide them in the lining? There isn't enough space for sufficient semtex to blow his fucking nose, let alone the room.

I didn't really think about hiding them in the lining, but you're right...

[Great Carlistan]

A valid arguement. On the other hand, if it had been a bomb, not doing anything could have gotten your students killed. With it not being a bomb the clock was looked at by a professional and the pupil questioned. Seeing as it was not, he was let go. This seems normal to me xD

He was let go? What about that he wasn't allowed to call his parents before the interrogation? What about all the other rights he had that were violated?

Seriously though, jumping to conclusions is the whole reason why this thing ended the way it did. If the teacher has calmly asked him "what is it" instead running around like a headless chicken, none of this would have happened.

Indeed certain rights are sometimes and mostly unlawfully suspended when dealing with suspected terrorists (I have no idea how far they were with analysing the clock but guess that even American police would not hold him once the confirmation came through it was safe).

On another level I disagree. This entire topic is being made so incredibly important (leading to the 15 million case) due to the fact that many say that the teacher would have calmly asked what the clock was, had Ahmed not been Ahmed but Bob Smith. For this however, we have no proof.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Fun thought experiment:

You have to put explosives in that pencil case, where exactly do you hide them in the lining? There isn't enough space for sufficient semtex to blow his fucking nose, let alone the room.

I didn't really think about hiding them in the lining, but you're right...

Training, I has.

But that's the point, isn't it? I'm just applying critical thinking, something that the school failed to do.

[Great Carlistan]

I didn't really think about hiding them in the lining, but you're right...

Training, I has.

But that's the point, isn't it? I'm just applying critical thinking, something that the school failed to do.

Excactly. Because the teacher saw the - call it pencilcase- with wiring and a timer and did not think further. Why not? Maybe he really did not know better and maybe he was trying to do the thing best for his students. As I said before, had it been a bomb and he had ignored it, he would have been responsible for possible casualties amongst his students.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I didn't really think about hiding them in the lining, but you're right...

Training, I has.

But that's the point, isn't it? I'm just applying critical thinking, something that the school failed to do.

Quite.

[The Alexanderians]

Training, I has.

But that's the point, isn't it? I'm just applying critical thinking, something that the school failed to do.

Excactly. Because the teacher saw the - call it pencilcase- with wiring and a timer and did not think further. Why not? Maybe he really did not know better and maybe he was trying to do the thing best for his students. As I said before, had it been a bomb and he had ignored it, he would have been responsible for possible casualties amongst his students.

Well with (as example) Navel MAs the first thing you do with a suspected bomb is to back off and not touch it, and after getting to a safe distance calling it in. The teacher did the right thing the school not so much,

[Gravlen]

He was let go? What about that he wasn't allowed to call his parents before the interrogation? What about all the other rights he had that were violated?

Seriously though, jumping to conclusions is the whole reason why this thing ended the way it did. If the teacher has calmly asked him "what is it" instead running around like a headless chicken, none of this would have happened.

Indeed certain rights are sometimes and mostly unlawfully suspended when dealing with suspected terrorists (I have no idea how far they were with analysing the clock but guess that even American police would not hold him once the confirmation came through it was safe).

Nope. They arrested him after they knew it was safe.

[Sanctissima]

You're shitting me.

First off, how is moving to Qatar after everything that happened not essentially giving a finger to the US?

But more importantly, do you have no grasp on proportionality? If a country started handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully arrested by police, that country would be broke. Asking for $15 million right after ditching the country is a huge slap in the face and "fuck you" to America. And how the hell is the school supposed to pay for that? It'd probably end up having to shut down.

I'm sorry, but you're being completely unreasonable here.

It's not giving a middle finger to the U.S. It's going somewhere where they're less likely to be targeted as possible terrorists simply due to their religion.

If the country started handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully arrested by the police, maybe liability insurance would be such an issue that cities would find ways to cut down on the number of wrongful arrests. Also, this wasn't just a wrongful arrest: He was questioned without Miranda warnings, without an attorney present, without a child advocate present, and his father was denied access to him during questioning.

Okay, for starters, your first remark is bullshit. If the president of the United States issues a public statement of support for you, then you certainly aren't being targeted as a possible terrorist. And if you're trying to avoid terrorism and religious persecution, one of the last places you go is fucking Qatar (unless you've decided to take a crack at the whole being the persecutor thing).

As for the actions of the police, yes, it was ridiculous. His civil rights were violated, I'm not saying they weren't. That said, your assessment is ridiculous. Handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully accused by the police would completely fuck the US economy over. First off, there's millions of Americans who would be compensated, so it would be one massive class-action lawsuit which would suck the government's money dry. Secondly, at least 10% (although probably more within the vicinity of 25%) of Americans would suddenly become millionaires, which would ultimately lead to major economic collapse. The US dollar would become useless with the flooding of the market, hyperinflation would ensue, and America's economy would be on-par with Zimbabwe's.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Training, I has.

But that's the point, isn't it? I'm just applying critical thinking, something that the school failed to do.

Excactly. Because the teacher saw the - call it pencilcase- with wiring and a timer and did not think further. Why not? Maybe he really did not know better and maybe he was trying to do the thing best for his students. As I said before, had it been a bomb and he had ignored it, he would have been responsible for possible casualties amongst his students.

He didn't think that it was a bomb. Nothing in his subsequent actions would lead anyone to believe that he thought that there was the slightest chance that it was a bomb, and indeed, his actions indicated that he knew that the device was not a bomb.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Training, I has.

But that's the point, isn't it? I'm just applying critical thinking, something that the school failed to do.

Excactly. Because the teacher saw the - call it pencilcase- with wiring and a timer and did not think further. Why not? Maybe he really did not know better and maybe he was trying to do the thing best for his students. As I said before, had it been a bomb and he had ignored it, he would have been responsible for possible casualties amongst his students.

Well, you see, it was easy to determine it wasn't a bomb. Hell, just a first impressions test on my behalf would have told me this was a media project and not a bomb.

To be fair, I would be more suspicious of an unknown stick with a wrapper around it and no markings than I would be about a pencilcase, and not because it could be an explosive, but because there could be some kind of chemical inside it anyways that is hazardous (and trust me, there's perfectly legal yet nasty shit that I wouldn't handle).

[Gravlen]

Training, I has.

But that's the point, isn't it? I'm just applying critical thinking, something that the school failed to do.

Excactly. Because the teacher saw the - call it pencilcase- with wiring and a timer and did not think further. Why not? Maybe he really did not know better and maybe he was trying to do the thing best for his students. As I said before, had it been a bomb and he had ignored it, he would have been responsible for possible casualties amongst his students.

Except she didn't think it was a bomb, after he had asked her if he could show her the clock he had put together at home. If she had thought it was a bomb, she should have taken steps to ensure the safety of her students - which she didn't. She left it at her desk and called the principal. No evacuation happened, she didn't call the police / bomb squad...

[Ifreann]

At no stage was this clock ever treated like a bomb.

The police are also at fault.

I fail to see what that has to do with anything.

I'm sure that'll make a huge difference if this goes to court.

No it's not.

No it's not.

No it's not.

No it's not.

Millions of dollars seems a perfectly reasonable compensation for having one's civil rights violated, or do you think that the school and city should suffer no negative consequences for violating someone's civil rights? And whether he got support or free stuff is irrelevant to whether he is owed compensation for having his civil rights violated.


Is looking like it's pretty baseless.

You're shitting me.

I shit you not, citizen.

First off, how is moving to Qatar after everything that happened not essentially giving a finger to the US?

Because they don't owe the US a damn thing. It's all well and good to cry "Oh but he got so much support". Yeah, he got support after he got suspended from school and arrested over a fucking clock that no one, at any stage, treated like a bomb. He also got given shit in the media, as you yourself noted. So why should this family stay in America and continue to subject themselves and their children to Islamaphobic abuse? The hope of another visit to the White House?

But more importantly, do you have no grasp on proportionality? If a country started handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully arrested by police, that country would be broke.

Then I would suggest the government crack down on police officers wrongfully arresting people. Especially children. And denying them access to either a lawyer or their parents. In contravention of the supreme law of the land.

Asking for $15 million right after ditching the country

Have they actually left yet?

is a huge slap in the face and "fuck you" to America. And how the hell is the school supposed to pay for that?

The school is only being asked to pay $5 million. The city is being asked to pay the other $10 million.

It'd probably end up having to shut down.

The Irving Independent School District's budget in 2014-2015 was $372,646,211. The $5 million they are being asked to pay represents about 1.3% of that.

Plus, you know. Insurance is a thing.

I'm sorry, but you're being completely unreasonable here.

I disagree, obviously.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

It's not giving a middle finger to the U.S. It's going somewhere where they're less likely to be targeted as possible terrorists simply due to their religion.

If the country started handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully arrested by the police, maybe liability insurance would be such an issue that cities would find ways to cut down on the number of wrongful arrests. Also, this wasn't just a wrongful arrest: He was questioned without Miranda warnings, without an attorney present, without a child advocate present, and his father was denied access to him during questioning.

Okay, for starters, your first remark is bullshit. If the president of the United States issues a public statement of support for you, then you certainly aren't being targeted as a possible terrorist. And if you're trying to avoid terrorism and religious persecution, one of the last places you go is fucking Qatar (unless you've decided to take a crack at the whole being the persecutor thing).

As for the actions of the police, yes, it was ridiculous. His civil rights were violated, I'm not saying they weren't. That said, your assessment is ridiculous. Handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully accused by the police would completely fuck the US economy over. First off, there's millions of Americans who would be compensated, so it would be one massive class-action lawsuit which would suck the government's money dry. Secondly, at least 10% (although probably more within the vicinity of 25%) of Americans would suddenly become millionaires, which would ultimately lead to major economic collapse. The US dollar would become useless with the flooding of the market, hyperinflation would ensue, and America's economy would be on-par with Zimbabwe's.

1) Yes, but they didn't live in the White House. They won't be persecuted for being Muslims in Qatar, which is the point: bigotry essentially forced them into a position where they had to go to a homogenous country that tends to be nasty to people who aren't like them in order to escape persecution. I'm also not aware that Qatar is a major target for terrorism, though it is sadly a financer of it.

2) False arrest is one thing. Intentional violation of Constitutional rights is another. An arrest made in good faith that turns out to be wrong is part of police work. Intentionally denying Constitutional rights during that arrest is another. I'm sure that you see the difference.

[Ifreann]

So you see a person with something like that in your classroom and you tell me you admire the wiring?

It's a little sloppy, but I'd give him an A-.

"But Mr. Goofballs, this is Spanish"

---

It's not giving a middle finger to the U.S. It's going somewhere where they're less likely to be targeted as possible terrorists simply due to their religion.

If the country started handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully arrested by the police, maybe liability insurance would be such an issue that cities would find ways to cut down on the number of wrongful arrests. Also, this wasn't just a wrongful arrest: He was questioned without Miranda warnings, without an attorney present, without a child advocate present, and his father was denied access to him during questioning.

Okay, for starters, your first remark is bullshit. If the president of the United States issues a public statement of support for you, then you certainly aren't being targeted as a possible terrorist. And if you're trying to avoid terrorism and religious persecution, one of the last places you go is fucking Qatar (unless you've decided to take a crack at the whole being the persecutor thing).

As for the actions of the police, yes, it was ridiculous. His civil rights were violated, I'm not saying they weren't. That said, your assessment is ridiculous. Handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully accused by the police would completely fuck the US economy over. First off, there's millions of Americans who would be compensated, so it would be one massive class-action lawsuit which would suck the government's money dry. Secondly, at least 10% (although probably more within the vicinity of 25%) of Americans would suddenly become millionaires, which would ultimately lead to major economic collapse. The US dollar would become useless with the flooding of the market, hyperinflation would ensue, and America's economy would be on-par with Zimbabwe's.

If you're saying that millions of Americans have had their civil rights violated by the police, such as by being denied their right to have an attorney present during questioning, then I think you should be more concerned with how your country is some kind of dystopian police state that blatantly disregards its own highest laws than what might happen to your economy if you were to compensate all those people.

[Sanctissima]

Okay, for starters, your first remark is bullshit. If the president of the United States issues a public statement of support for you, then you certainly aren't being targeted as a possible terrorist. And if you're trying to avoid terrorism and religious persecution, one of the last places you go is fucking Qatar (unless you've decided to take a crack at the whole being the persecutor thing).

As for the actions of the police, yes, it was ridiculous. His civil rights were violated, I'm not saying they weren't. That said, your assessment is ridiculous. Handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully accused by the police would completely fuck the US economy over. First off, there's millions of Americans who would be compensated, so it would be one massive class-action lawsuit which would suck the government's money dry. Secondly, at least 10% (although probably more within the vicinity of 25%) of Americans would suddenly become millionaires, which would ultimately lead to major economic collapse. The US dollar would become useless with the flooding of the market, hyperinflation would ensue, and America's economy would be on-par with Zimbabwe's.

1) Yes, but they didn't live in the White House. They won't be persecuted for being Muslims in Qatar, which is the point: bigotry essentially forced them into a position where they had to go to a homogenous country that tends to be nasty to people who aren't like them in order to escape persecution. I'm also not aware that Qatar is a major target for terrorism, though it is sadly a financer of it.

2) False arrest is one thing. Intentional violation of Constitutional rights is another. An arrest made in good faith that turns out to be wrong is part of police work. Intentionally denying Constitutional rights during that arrest is another. I'm sure that you see the difference.

1) My remark was largely in regards to Qatar's financing of terrorism, not it being a target of it. No offence intended, but "being forced to leave the US to escape persecution" is grade-A bullshit. Maybe the family felt that way, but I doubt it. They were getting a lot more support than they were condemnation. I'm pretty sure the scholarship offered by the Qatar Foundation had a lot more to do with it.

2) I do, but I fail to see how this is worth $15 million in reparations.

[Gravlen]

It's not giving a middle finger to the U.S. It's going somewhere where they're less likely to be targeted as possible terrorists simply due to their religion.

If the country started handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully arrested by the police, maybe liability insurance would be such an issue that cities would find ways to cut down on the number of wrongful arrests. Also, this wasn't just a wrongful arrest: He was questioned without Miranda warnings, without an attorney present, without a child advocate present, and his father was denied access to him during questioning.

Okay, for starters, your first remark is bullshit. If the president of the United States issues a public statement of support for you, then you certainly aren't being targeted as a possible terrorist.

He was accused on national television of being a part of "civilization jihad". His adress was tweeted out. He recieved rather unfriendly messages, including memes of his face on bin Laden's body.

As for the actions of the police, yes, it was ridiculous. His civil rights were violated, I'm not saying they weren't. That said, your assessment is ridiculous. Handing out millions of dollars to everyone who's ever been wrongfully accused by the police would completely fuck the US economy over. First off, there's millions of Americans who would be compensated, so it would be one massive class-action lawsuit which would suck the government's money dry. Secondly, at least 10% (although probably more within the vicinity of 25%) of Americans would suddenly become millionaires, which would ultimately lead to major economic collapse. The US dollar would become useless with the flooding of the market, hyperinflation would ensue, and America's economy would be on-par with Zimbabwe's.

Wouldn't it be better to, I don't know, stop violating people's civil rights?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

1) Yes, but they didn't live in the White House. They won't be persecuted for being Muslims in Qatar, which is the point: bigotry essentially forced them into a position where they had to go to a homogenous country that tends to be nasty to people who aren't like them in order to escape persecution. I'm also not aware that Qatar is a major target for terrorism, though it is sadly a financer of it.

2) False arrest is one thing. Intentional violation of Constitutional rights is another. An arrest made in good faith that turns out to be wrong is part of police work. Intentionally denying Constitutional rights during that arrest is another. I'm sure that you see the difference.

1) My remark was largely in regards to Qatar's financing of terrorism, not it being a target of it. No offence intended, but "being forced to leave the US to escape persecution" is grade-A bullshit. Maybe the family felt that way, but I doubt it. They were getting a lot more support than they were condemnation. I'm pretty sure the scholarship offered by the Qatar Foundation had a lot more to do with it.

2) I do, but I fail to see how this is worth $15 million in reparations.

1) They were living in an anti-Muslim town, and were the subject of enormous media attention, which only served to exacerbate the situation. There may have been support, but they were also getting slammed from the left (Maher, Dawkins to some degree) and the right (Fox News) in the media. That's not healthy for a child. In Qatar, they had opportunities, and could start over.

2) How much are your Constitutional rights worth, then? Put a number on it. What number do you think would keep them from doing this again?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

1) Yes, but they didn't live in the White House. They won't be persecuted for being Muslims in Qatar, which is the point: bigotry essentially forced them into a position where they had to go to a homogenous country that tends to be nasty to people who aren't like them in order to escape persecution. I'm also not aware that Qatar is a major target for terrorism, though it is sadly a financer of it.

2) False arrest is one thing. Intentional violation of Constitutional rights is another. An arrest made in good faith that turns out to be wrong is part of police work. Intentionally denying Constitutional rights during that arrest is another. I'm sure that you see the difference.

1) My remark was largely in regards to Qatar's financing of terrorism, not it being a target of it. No offence intended, but "being forced to leave the US to escape persecution" is grade-A bullshit. Maybe the family felt that way, but I doubt it. They were getting a lot more support than they were condemnation. I'm pretty sure the scholarship offered by the Qatar Foundation had a lot more to do with it.

2) I do, but I fail to see how this is worth $15 million in reparations.

As for your first point I don't think it really counts if the people who are within your city (and this is a small town near Houston, so no it isn't some Liberal paradise) are a bunch of bigots.

[Gravlen]

Asking for $15 million right after ditching the country

Have they actually left yet?

Yes, and they now want to come back home to Texas - even if there are armed, masked people demonstrating against their local mosque.