NationStates

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
To engage in socially acceptable transphobia. I'm not the biggest fan of Caitlyn myself, but I suspect that a good chunk of the people complaining about her aren't doing it because she isn't a good advocate for trans people.

I also think that many people saying that she doesn't deserve the award probably haven't even heard of the award until now.

I've heard and follow it every year. I am not sure how not agreeing with Jenner receiving it and stating why amounts to casual transphobia. At least not in my part. *shrug*

My criticism doesn't apply to you, seeing as how you actually care about trans issues.

Ifreann wrote:Oh no, this award from a fashion magazine has been tarnished forever by being given to someone rich and famous who lives in a "rich and famous people" bubble. I'm sure Britney Spears will be next to return her award.

I will make a funny hat and win.

And to be fair, even through just that, I'd be more of an activist than she is

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Val Halla wrote:I think surviving the Kardashians should be an award given to the general public

Eh, all you have to do to survive them is ignore them.

Or watch Seth Rogen and James Franco Bound 3......

Ashlak wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I've heard and follow it every year. I am not sure how not agreeing with Jenner receiving it and stating why amounts to casual transphobia. At least not in my part. *shrug*

My criticism doesn't apply to you, seeing as how you actually care about trans issues.

I do agree with Laverne Cox's recognition for the same award from Glamour last year. Now Cox is an advocate and, as a woman, deserves all the recognition she got for her activism in the transgender community. But Jenner? In my estimation, no.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
My criticism doesn't apply to you, seeing as how you actually care about trans issues.

I do agree with Laverne Cox's recognition for the same award from Glamour last year. Now Cox is an advocate and, as a woman, deserves all the recognition she got for her activism in the transgender community. But Jenner? In my estimation, no.

Let me just list all the things she has done for trans people


List done.

Val Halla wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I do agree with Laverne Cox's recognition for the same award from Glamour last year. Now Cox is an advocate and, as a woman, deserves all the recognition she got for her activism in the transgender community. But Jenner? In my estimation, no.

Let me just list all the things she has done for trans people


List done.

Who are you talking about, Jenner or Cox?

Napkiraly wrote:

Ethel mermania wrote:Survive being a kardashian. If that doesn't deserve an award, I don't know what does.

Escape being a Kardashian?

Same thing. Look at poor khloe, lamar threw her out of his hospital room

The horror... the horror.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Val Halla wrote:Let me just list all the things she has done for trans people


List done.

Who are yyou talking about, Jenner or Cox?

I think it's fairly obvious I am talking about Jenner. Cox is probably the best known trans activist. I would be one myself if I weren't a journalist

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
My criticism doesn't apply to you, seeing as how you actually care about trans issues.

I do agree with Laverne Cox's recognition for the same award from Glamour last year. Now Cox is an advocate and, as a woman, deserves all the recognition she got for her activism in the transgender community. But Jenner? In my estimation, no.

And that's an understandable view. My point is, many (not all) people criticizing her aren't doing it on behalf of trans people, but are doing it to imply that trans women in general aren't women.

And honestly, I don't understand why the trans community focuses on her when she says stupid things. I could understand it if Janet Mock or Laverne Cox said something, but that's because they're serious advocates. Caitlyn is just a celebrity who happens to be trans. No offense to her, but she's not all that consequential over all. I don't see how exactly she's consequential in comparison to serious advocates.

Val Halla wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Who are yyou talking about, Jenner or Cox?

I think it's fairly obvious I am talking about Jenner. Cox is probably the best known trans activist. I would be one myself if I weren't a journalist

Wait, you are a journalist? I never knew this. Couldn't you technically be both!

Ethel mermania wrote:

Napkiraly wrote:Escape being a Kardashian?

Same thing. Look at poor khloe, lamar threw her out of his hospital room

The horror... the horror.

$10 that Kim's naming her next kid Wild West.

Ifreann wrote:Oh no, this award from a fashion magazine has been tarnished forever by being given to someone rich and famous who lives in a "rich and famous people" bubble. I'm sure Britney Spears will be next to return her award.

Oh ass to that. I know more than one trans woman who's offended that a trans woman who in the great scheme of things had it super easy and then killed someone with their car gets and award for advancing the trans cause by doing nothing other than simply existing.

Ashlak wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I do agree with Laverne Cox's recognition for the same award from Glamour last year. Now Cox is an advocate and, as a woman, deserves all the recognition she got for her activism in the transgender community. But Jenner? In my estimation, no.

And that's an understandable view. My point is, many (not all) people criticizing her aren't doing it on behalf of trans people, but are doing it to imply that trans women in general aren't women.

And honestly, I don't understand why the trans community focuses on her when she says stupid things. I could understand it if Janet Mock or Laverne Cox said something, but that's because they're serious advocates. Caitlyn is just a celebrity who happens to be trans. I don't see how exactly she's consequential in comparison to serious advocates.

I'll be incredibly honest, I do not know how she's come to represent, Jenner, the transgender community. Not when there are so many other transgender activists out there, who are actually doing something.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
And that's an understandable view. My point is, many (not all) people criticizing her aren't doing it on behalf of trans people, but are doing it to imply that trans women in general aren't women.

And honestly, I don't understand why the trans community focuses on her when she says stupid things. I could understand it if Janet Mock or Laverne Cox said something, but that's because they're serious advocates. Caitlyn is just a celebrity who happens to be trans. I don't see how exactly she's consequential in comparison to serious advocates.

I'll be incredibly honest, I do not know how she's come to represent, Jenner, the transgender community. Not when there are so many other transgender activists out there, who are actually doing something.

I don't think she does, that's my point. People are hyperfocusing on her for no real reason. The attention paid to her by the trans community should have ended after her Vanity Fair cover.

Ashlak wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I'll be incredibly honest, I do not know how she's come to represent, Jenner, the transgender community. Not when there are so many other transgender activists out there, who are actually doing something.

I don't think she does, that's my point. People are hyperfocusing on her for no real reason. The attention paid to her by the trans community should have ended after her Vanity Fair cover.

Or after the Halloween costume controversy because the mocking was uncalled for. But there's nothing else of note from her.

Like you said the other day, it is good that she was able to transition and that she is happy with herself, but lets not kid ourselves.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
I don't think she does, that's my point. People are hyperfocusing on her for no real reason. The attention paid to her by the trans community should have ended after her Vanity Fair cover.

Or after the Halloween costume controversy because the mocking was uncalled for. But there's nothing else of note from her.

Like you said the other day, it is good that she was able to transition and that she is happy with herself, but lets not kid ourselves.

I agree. There's more things at stake than Caitlyn saying dumb things.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
My criticism doesn't apply to you, seeing as how you actually care about trans issues.

I do agree with Laverne Cox's recognition for the same award from Glamour last year. Now Cox is an advocate and, as a woman, deserves all the recognition she got for her activism in the transgender community. But Jenner? In my estimation, no.

I agree in full, the issue here isn't transgender for a lot of people it's Jenner.

Ashlak wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Or after the Halloween costume controversy because the mocking was uncalled for. But there's nothing else of note from her.

Like you said the other day, it is good that she was able to transition and that she is happy with herself, but lets not kid ourselves.

I agree. There's more things at stake than Caitlyn saying dumb things.

And there are so many other women and men in the trans community who, in my estimation, deserve such recognition, and more, because they do make a difference. I've met quite a few transgender volunteers who man crisis lines and centers, who put themselves out there, who truly go to the streets to advocate for trans rights, who knock on the doors of politicians and fight this battle. Jeebus, eternal respect, because these men and women do roll their sleeves up and strive to accomplish something.

Now those are the true heroes of the transgender community. Those are the men and women who deserve recognition. Not Jenner.

The Alexanderians wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I do agree with Laverne Cox's recognition for the same award from Glamour last year. Now Cox is an advocate and, as a woman, deserves all the recognition she got for her activism in the transgender community. But Jenner? In my estimation, no.

I agree in full, the issue here isn't transgender for a lot of people it's Jenner.

And people like to tie them together. You, Nana, and others are arguing on behalf of trans people in good faith, but many others are not.

Italios wrote:

Val Halla wrote:I think it's fairly obvious I am talking about Jenner. Cox is probably the best known trans activist. I would be one myself if I weren't a journalist

Wait, you are a journalist? I never knew this. Couldn't you technically be both!

Ethel mermania wrote:Same thing. Look at poor khloe, lamar threw her out of his hospital room

The horror... the horror.

$10 that Kim's naming her next kid Wild West.

Or after spending time in Texas, South by South West.

Ashlak wrote:

The Alexanderians wrote:I agree in full, the issue here isn't transgender for a lot of people it's Jenner.

And people like to tie them together. You, Nana, and others are arguing on behalf of trans people in good faith, but many others are not.

Oh don't worry I'm aware. I decided not to use "most" for that reason. In any case I would hop the fence and take up a shield were it literally any other transwoman. Jenner is deserving of dirt and nothing more. Hell I can name transgender pornstars that are saints by compare to Jenner.

The Alexanderians wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
And people like to tie them together. You, Nana, and others are arguing on behalf of trans people in good faith, but many others are not.

Oh don't worry I'm aware. I decided not to use "most" for that reason. In any case I would hop the fence and take up a shield were it literally any other transwoman. Jenner is deserving of dirt and nothing more. Hell I can name transgender pornstars that are saints by compare to Jenner.

Kardassians are like leprosy. Hang around them long enough and you start showing signs of decay too.

The Alexanderians wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
And people like to tie them together. You, Nana, and others are arguing on behalf of trans people in good faith, but many others are not.

Oh don't worry I'm aware. I decided not to use "most" for that reason. In any case I would hop the fence and take up a shield were it literally any other transwoman. Jenner is deserving of dirt and nothing more. Hell I can name transgender pornstars that are saints by compare to Jenner.

Um, look, Caitlyn is far from a good advocate, but she isn't exactly tranny Hitler.

Ashlak wrote:

The Alexanderians wrote:Oh don't worry I'm aware. I decided not to use "most" for that reason. In any case I would hop the fence and take up a shield were it literally any other transwoman. Jenner is deserving of dirt and nothing more. Hell I can name transgender pornstars that are saints by compare to Jenner.

Um, look, Caitlyn is far from a good advocate, but she isn't exactly transgender Hitler.

Ftfy

No I'm not saying she's worthy of that compare, she is however a terrible person undeserving of any kind of fame not related to her actually deserved award. (Olympics)

The Alexanderians wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
Um, look, Caitlyn is far from a good advocate, but she isn't exactly transgender Hitler.

Ftfy

No I'm not saying she's worthy of that compare, she is however a terrible person undeserving of any kind of fame not related to her actually deserved award. (Olympics)

Someone'll take that as "The only real accomplishments were made as a man." Internet, yo.

The Alexanderians wrote:

Ashlak wrote:
Um, look, Caitlyn is far from a good advocate, but she isn't exactly transgender Hitler.

Ftfy

No I'm not saying she's worthy of that compare, she is however a terrible person undeserving of any kind of fame not related to her actually deserved award.

Aw, I don't get t-word privileges?

Having dumb opinions doesn't necessarily make someone a terrible person.