The General Car Thread.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine it's late 1977 ('78 model year). You are a 45-year-old structural engineer from Maine, living with a wife, a 17-year-old daughter who has her own car, a 13-year-old son and a 7-year-old son. You want to replace your '75 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser with a newer automatic fullsize American wagon. The options are:
- Buick Estate 350 ci,
- Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser 350 ci,
- Pontiac Grand Safari 350 ci,
- Mercury Colony Park 351 ci.

Which one would you buy? I'd choose the Buick.

[Auzkhia]

GM had a 4.2 liter I6 that was used in the Chevy Trail Blazer, GMC Envoy, Oldsmobile Bravada, and Buick Rainier. It was forgotten, but often used in engine swaps of older cars.

[Auzkhia]

Here's my idea for the auto market.

Special order any engine they have in the factory, and put in your car, if it fits, it can go into your car. We need more customization in the new car market.

[Petrolheadia]

Here's my idea for the auto market.

Special order any engine they have in the factory, and put in your car, if it fits, it can go into your car. We need more customization in the new car market.

Guess what? With over 130 years of motoring, somebody had probably thought of that.

If it still does not exist,,it probably should not.

[Auzkhia]

Here's my idea for the auto market.

Special order any engine they have in the factory, and put in your car, if it fits, it can go into your car. We need more customization in the new car market.

Guess what? With over 130 years of motoring, somebody had probably thought of that.

If it still does not exist,,it probably should not.

You could at one point, go to a dealer, get a spec sheet, and mark it with whatever options you wanted. But, Americans are too impatient for factory orders, so they just go to a dealer, buy the car, and drive off of the lot with the car. It was common in like the 50s.

It's more like bringing back an old art., but with more flexibility than the current online configurator. Let's say I want a specific engine, or a specific color, or specific gadget that may not be normally offered for the model, but they have it ready in other models. I could just request those features, and have my factory custom car. If I have the means, the money, I should buy what I want.

[Petrolheadia]

Guess what? With over 130 years of motoring, somebody had probably thought of that.

If it still does not exist,,it probably should not.

You could at one point, go to a dealer, get a spec sheet, and mark it with whatever options you wanted. But, Americans are too impatient for factory orders, so they just go to a dealer, buy the car, and drive off of the lot with the car. It was common in like the 50s.

It's more like bringing back an old art., but with more flexibility than the current online configurator. Let's say I want a specific engine, or a specific color, or specific gadget that may not be normally offered for the model, but they have it ready in other models. I could just request those features, and have my factory custom car. If I have the means, the money, I should buy what I want.

Except that now we run into a multum of problems: car lineups are now more diverse than in the 50s, more thought gets into handling with the enignes the car was built for, a lot of the equipment is proprietary to a certain model...

[Auzkhia]

You could at one point, go to a dealer, get a spec sheet, and mark it with whatever options you wanted. But, Americans are too impatient for factory orders, so they just go to a dealer, buy the car, and drive off of the lot with the car. It was common in like the 50s.

It's more like bringing back an old art., but with more flexibility than the current online configurator. Let's say I want a specific engine, or a specific color, or specific gadget that may not be normally offered for the model, but they have it ready in other models. I could just request those features, and have my factory custom car. If I have the means, the money, I should buy what I want.

Except that now we run into a multum of problems: car lineups are now more diverse than in the 50s, more thought gets into handling with the enignes the car was built for, a lot of the equipment is proprietary to a certain model...

Still, if I asked, should I be able to have which ever engine that can fit, into a certain, or even blue leather interior, or even something as bold as orange?

I think they don't really bother, because of demand, which there isn't, just make cars, and people will buy whatever is close enough, and factories are mostly automated, but still, I guess it's easier for Rolls Royce to do it, but at least have more options. I guess, that requires actual human labor to respond to. I think it is possible, just that, no one has either attempted it, still, it makes sense for super luxurious cars, but who is going to ask for a custom made Ford Fiesta? Still, maybe one day I'll try to write to a maker requesting custom made cars, but from a regular economy car, and see what happens.

I rather not resort to project cars, and just have it perfect from the factory.

[Petrolheadia]

Except that now we run into a multum of problems: car lineups are now more diverse than in the 50s, more thought gets into handling with the enignes the car was built for, a lot of the equipment is proprietary to a certain model...

Still, if I asked, should I be able to have which ever engine that can fit, into a certain, or even blue leather interior, or even something as bold as orange?

I think they don't really bother, because of demand, which there isn't, just make cars, and people will buy whatever is close enough, and factories are mostly automated, but still, I guess it's easier for Rolls Royce to do it, but at least have more options. I guess, that requires actual human labor to respond to. I think it is possible, just that, no one has either attempted it, still, it makes sense for super luxurious cars, but who is going to ask for a custom made Ford Fiesta? Still, maybe one day I'll try to write to a maker requesting custom made cars, but from a regular economy car, and see what happens.

I rather not resort to project cars, and just have it perfect from the factory.

Then again, why would anybody buy a Fiesta with handling botched by a Focus RS motor, if you could probably buy a real RS, or at least a slightly used one, for the same money?

[Auzkhia]

Still, if I asked, should I be able to have which ever engine that can fit, into a certain, or even blue leather interior, or even something as bold as orange?

I think they don't really bother, because of demand, which there isn't, just make cars, and people will buy whatever is close enough, and factories are mostly automated, but still, I guess it's easier for Rolls Royce to do it, but at least have more options. I guess, that requires actual human labor to respond to. I think it is possible, just that, no one has either attempted it, still, it makes sense for super luxurious cars, but who is going to ask for a custom made Ford Fiesta? Still, maybe one day I'll try to write to a maker requesting custom made cars, but from a regular economy car, and see what happens.

I rather not resort to project cars, and just have it perfect from the factory.

Then again, why would anybody buy a Fiesta with handling botched by a Focus RS motor, if you could probably buy a real RS, or at least a slightly used one, for the same money?

Fiesta RS? It'd be easier to upgrade a Fiesta ST, or put awd on that.
Size perhaps, but I wasn't thinking like that. More like something more of the wall, like a diesel Mustang, they just plop the V8 powerstroke from a F250 pickup truck, or even getting a some features you wouldn't normally see or colors that are not normally offered.

[Petrolheadia]

Then again, why would anybody buy a Fiesta with handling botched by a Focus RS motor, if you could probably buy a real RS, or at least a slightly used one, for the same money?

Fiesta RS? It'd be easier to upgrade a Fiesta ST, or put awd on that.
Size perhaps, but I wasn't thinking like that. More like something more of the wall, like a diesel Mustang, they just plop the V8 powerstroke from a F250 pickup truck, or even getting a some features you wouldn't normally see or colors that are not normally offered.

Again, problems.

The tech of an e.g. Lincoln Navigator is often built just for the Navigator and similar SUVs, and the Powerstroke would cause problems related to weight distribution and too much torque.

[Auzkhia]

Fiesta RS? It'd be easier to upgrade a Fiesta ST, or put awd on that.
Size perhaps, but I wasn't thinking like that. More like something more of the wall, like a diesel Mustang, they just plop the V8 powerstroke from a F250 pickup truck, or even getting a some features you wouldn't normally see or colors that are not normally offered.

Again, problems.

The tech of an e.g. Lincoln Navigator is often built just for the Navigator and similar SUVs, and the Powerstroke would cause problems related to weight distribution and too much torque.

It's doable, people have put various diesel truck engines in Mustangs, Camaros, and Chargers. So, I see no reason why the professional can't do, aside from the issue of demand. They have the means, they're just not applying it.

[Elwher]

Again, problems.

The tech of an e.g. Lincoln Navigator is often built just for the Navigator and similar SUVs, and the Powerstroke would cause problems related to weight distribution and too much torque.

It's doable, people have put various diesel truck engines in Mustangs, Camaros, and Chargers. So, I see no reason why the professional can't do, aside from the issue of demand. They have the means, they're just not applying it.

You have answered your own question, sir, it is entirely a question of demand. While I understand your point, most people would rather just pick a car on the lot rather than wait for a custom build. Also, with the availability of other dealer's inventory on the internet, there is a wide choice to draw from.

Professionals will do that for you, it's called custom shops. For the manufacturer to set up their assembly lines to accept that kind of cross product constructions would be much more expensive that the small demand would warrant.

[Petrolheadia]

Again, problems.

The tech of an e.g. Lincoln Navigator is often built just for the Navigator and similar SUVs, and the Powerstroke would cause problems related to weight distribution and too much torque.

It's doable, people have put various diesel truck engines in Mustangs, Camaros, and Chargers. So, I see no reason why the professional can't do, aside from the issue of demand. They have the means, they're just not applying it.

Because it would cost to redo the weight balance to accomodate a megadiesel.

[Auzkhia]

It's doable, people have put various diesel truck engines in Mustangs, Camaros, and Chargers. So, I see no reason why the professional can't do, aside from the issue of demand. They have the means, they're just not applying it.

You have answered your own question, sir, it is entirely a question of demand. While I understand your point, most people would rather just pick a car on the lot rather than wait for a custom build. Also, with the availability of other dealer's inventory on the internet, there is a wide choice to draw from.

Professionals will do that for you, it's called custom shops. For the manufacturer to set up their assembly lines to accept that kind of cross product constructions would be much more expensive that the small demand would warrant.

I suppose, but I rather have the middleman cut out, and just have it perfect when sets off from the factory. Still, I guess, custom shops are the only way it can be done.

This is why I don't really have a dream car, because doesn't actually exist as is. One day, I might do a build, when I say that, I mean hire a guy with a garage. I plan on doing this to my current car, when I will have bought a dedicated daily driver.

[Patridam]

It's doable, people have put various diesel truck engines in Mustangs, Camaros, and Chargers. So, I see no reason why the professional can't do, aside from the issue of demand. They have the means, they're just not applying it.

Because it would cost to redo the weight balance to accomodate a megadiesel.

It's 500 pounds difference. That's as easy as a new set of front springs.

[GreatestBanks]

Again, problems.

The tech of an e.g. Lincoln Navigator is often built just for the Navigator and similar SUVs, and the Powerstroke would cause problems related to weight distribution and too much torque.

It's doable, people have put various diesel truck engines in Mustangs, Camaros, and Chargers. So, I see no reason why the professional can't do, aside from the issue of demand. They have the means, they're just not applying it.

Boeing also has the means to create airplanes painted yellow on the inside and filled with oranges. Why don't they? Because there's just no demand. Not enough people want to buy custom engines and not enough people care about it.

[Petrolheadia]

Because it would cost to redo the weight balance to accomodate a megadiesel.

It's 500 pounds difference. That's as easy as a new set of front springs.

Which the Mustang does not have, and won't have just for a single guy.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine it's 1986 ('87 model year). You are a 54-year-old civil engineer from Maine and as the last of your kids, your 16-year-old son, now has a car (your hand-me-down 1983 Buick Electra Estate), you're buying an American personal luxury car. The options you can afford are:
- Lincoln Mark VII 5.0 (non-LSC),
- Mercury Cougar 5.0,
- Cadillac Eldorado 4.1,
- Buick Riviera 3.8,
- Oldsmobile Toronado 3.8.

Which one would you buy? I'd get the Lincoln.

[Patridam]

It's 500 pounds difference. That's as easy as a new set of front springs.

Which the Mustang does not have, and won't have just for a single guy.

It's a matter of a few hundred dollars to make firmer front coil springs. Hell, they could buy aftermarket ones.

[Petrolheadia]

Which the Mustang does not have, and won't have just for a single guy.

It's a matter of a few hundred dollars to make firmer front coil springs. Hell, they could buy aftermarket ones.

Even without the spring debacle, will a heavy duty tranny from the diesel fit a Mustang?

[Auzkhia]

Automotive journalism round-up post.

It's basically a diesel M5 wagon, and I want, but I can only have it if I move to Germany. The Germans always save the best for Europe.

---

Not a personal luxury car, but the last American muscle car.

This looks absolutely ridiculous at face value, but consider the final points of assembly and who really owns Chrysler, it makes sense. However, this begs the question, is a naturally aspirated big V8 really mandatory for the muscle car?

[Petrolheadia]

Automotive journalism round-up post.

It's basically a diesel M5 wagon, and I want, but I can only have it if I move to Germany. The Germans always save the best for Europe.

---

Not a personal luxury car, but the last American muscle car.

This looks absolutely ridiculous at face value, but consider the final points of assembly and who really owns Chrysler, it makes sense. However, this begs the question, is a naturally aspirated big V8 really mandatory for the muscle car?

I know a bit about these modern modular BMW straight-3/4/6s. They fall apart faster than a Lancia washed with seawater, especially in such high-performance trims as the 50d.

Also, the Accord is not a muscle car, it's personal luxury. Personal luxury can be fast, the GTO was still distinguishable from the normal Tempest, and the V8 Challengers, Mustangs and Camaros don't look that easily distinguishable from normal rental car I4s and V6s

[Auzkhia]

Automotive journalism round-up post.

It's basically a diesel M5 wagon, and I want, but I can only have it if I move to Germany. The Germans always save the best for Europe.

---

Not a personal luxury car, but the last American muscle car.

This looks absolutely ridiculous at face value, but consider the final points of assembly and who really owns Chrysler, it makes sense. However, this begs the question, is a naturally aspirated big V8 really mandatory for the muscle car?

I know a bit about these modern modular BMW straight-3/4/6s. They fall apart faster than a Lancia washed with seawater, especially in such high-performance trims as the 50d.

Also, the Accord is not a muscle car, it's personal luxury. Personal luxury can be fast, the GTO was still distinguishable from the normal Tempest, and the V8 Challengers, Mustangs and Camaros don't look that easily distinguishable from normal rental car I4s and V6s

Still, It'd be nice if the USDM had more wagons, especially diesel wagons..

It makes sense if muscle car is a regular two door sedan with the biggest engine and manual transmission, which was the Pontiac GTO in 1964, it had 4 on the floor and the biggest engine. But, people insist muscle cars have to have RWD and V8, which would exclude the Accord 2 door V6, and like old muscle cars, the Accord doesn't have that good handling due in part to the biggest engine in Honda's car fleet.

[Petrolheadia]

I know a bit about these modern modular BMW straight-3/4/6s. They fall apart faster than a Lancia washed with seawater, especially in such high-performance trims as the 50d.

Also, the Accord is not a muscle car, it's personal luxury. Personal luxury can be fast, the GTO was still distinguishable from the normal Tempest, and the V8 Challengers, Mustangs and Camaros don't look that easily distinguishable from normal rental car I4s and V6s

Still, It'd be nice if the USDM had more wagons, especially diesel wagons..

It makes sense if muscle car is a regular two door sedan with the biggest engine and manual transmission, which was the Pontiac GTO in 1964, it had 4 on the floor and the biggest engine. But, people insist muscle cars have to have RWD and V8, which would exclude the Accord 2 door V6, and like old muscle cars, the Accord doesn't have that good handling due in part to the biggest engine in Honda's car fleet.

Why do you need wagons? Crossovers do the job even better, with easier entry and bigger windows. Wagons are justifiable in high-performance specs, but these usually make up less than 5% of sales.

And diesels are even worse. Auto, Motor und Sport recently did a test to check how long does it take for a diesel to break even, and it's about 100k miles, not counting the likely cost of failures of expensive diesel equipment, like DPFs, high-pressure injectors, etc.

[Auzkhia]

Still, It'd be nice if the USDM had more wagons, especially diesel wagons..

It makes sense if muscle car is a regular two door sedan with the biggest engine and manual transmission, which was the Pontiac GTO in 1964, it had 4 on the floor and the biggest engine. But, people insist muscle cars have to have RWD and V8, which would exclude the Accord 2 door V6, and like old muscle cars, the Accord doesn't have that good handling due in part to the biggest engine in Honda's car fleet.

Why do you need wagons? Crossovers do the job even better, with easier entry and bigger windows. Wagons are justifiable in high-performance specs, but these usually make up less than 5% of sales.

And diesels are even worse. Auto, Motor und Sport recently did a test to check how long does it take for a diesel to break even, and it's about 100k miles, not counting the likely cost of failures of expensive diesel equipment, like DPFs, high-pressure injectors, etc.

Wagons drive better, look better, and still have the similar capacity. I have no problem entering cars, so wagons work well for me. Just wish more Americans could see the benefits, only crazy car guys do, and they're a minority.