The General Car Thread.

[Petrolheadia]

That statement has been completely wrong for the last 50 years.

Lol i wouldn't go so far as saying ALL automatics in the last 50 years have had paddles shifters / tiptronic-style shifting


however, nowadays high-performance automatics are better than manuals in every possible way except for maybe cost, reliability and cost to maintain/repair. a modern high performance automatic transmission esp. dual-clutch type can shift quicker than a human can and more and more it can shift more economically.

Apparently, reliability problems only start to arise at the 100-150k mile mark.

[The Two Jerseys]

That statement has been completely wrong for the last 50 years.

Lol i wouldn't go so far as saying ALL automatics in the last 50 years have had paddles shifters / tiptronic-style shifting


however, nowadays high-performance automatics are better than manuals in every possible way except for maybe cost, reliability and cost to maintain/repair. a modern high performance automatic transmission esp. dual-clutch type can shift quicker than a human can and more and more it can shift more economically.

You don't even need paddles. I can row through the lower ranges with the shifter, my 4T40 will hold the gear.

[Petrolheadia]

Lol i wouldn't go so far as saying ALL automatics in the last 50 years have had paddles shifters / tiptronic-style shifting


however, nowadays high-performance automatics are better than manuals in every possible way except for maybe cost, reliability and cost to maintain/repair. a modern high performance automatic transmission esp. dual-clutch type can shift quicker than a human can and more and more it can shift more economically.

You don't even need paddles. I can row through the lower ranges with the shifter, my 4T40 will hold the gear.

Wait, you have 1st and 2nd, but it still can only change automatically between 3rd and 4th, amirite?

[The Two Jerseys]

You don't even need paddles. I can row through the lower ranges with the shifter, my 4T40 will hold the gear.

Wait, you have 1st and 2nd, but it still can only change automatically between 3rd and 4th, amirite?

Nope, it's a PRND321 pattern.

[Petrolheadia]

Wait, you have 1st and 2nd, but it still can only change automatically between 3rd and 4th, amirite?

Nope, it's a PRND321 pattern.

Isn't it forbidden to switch between modes while the car is moving?

[The Two Jerseys]

Nope, it's a PRND321 pattern.

Isn't it forbidden to switch between modes while the car is moving?

Park and Reverse have lockouts. Everything else I can row through with no problem.

[Petrolheadia]

Isn't it forbidden to switch between modes while the car is moving?

Park and Reverse have lockouts. Everything else I can row through with no problem.

I'm talking about user manual warnings.

[The Two Jerseys]

Park and Reverse have lockouts. Everything else I can row through with no problem.

I'm talking about user manual warnings.

People read those?

[Petrolheadia]

I'm talking about user manual warnings.

People read those?

Knowing life, mechanics dealing with warranty claims have memorized them.

[Auzkhia]

Nope, it's a PRND321 pattern.

Isn't it forbidden to switch between modes while the car is moving?

It isn't, and in some cases you have to use it for engine braking It's more useful in trucks though, on downhill roads, trucks reduce gear. If I put my car, into "4" out of the PRND4321, I don't have to ride my brakes, but in my Dad's GMC Envoy, he sometimes puts into 3 out of the PRND321.

I'm talking about user manual warnings.

People read those?

I leafed through owner's manuals, and never read a thing about forbading you from shifting into numbers, there are lockouts, you have to press the brake pedal to disengage park or to shift into neutral or reverse, in an auto.

[The Two Jerseys]

Isn't it forbidden to switch between modes while the car is moving?

It isn't, and in some cases you have to use it for engine braking It's more useful in trucks though, on downhill roads, trucks reduce gear. If I put my car, into "4" out of the PRND4321, I don't have to ride my brakes, but in my Dad's GMC Envoy, he sometimes puts into 3 out of the PRND321.

People read those?

I leafed through owner's manuals, and never read a thing about forbading you from shifting into numbers, there are lockouts, you have to press the brake pedal to disengage park or to shift into neutral or reverse, in an auto.

I only read the manual to find out what replacement bulbs I need...

[Petrolheadia]

Isn't it forbidden to switch between modes while the car is moving?

It isn't, and in some cases you have to use it for engine braking It's more useful in trucks though, on downhill roads, trucks reduce gear. If I put my car, into "4" out of the PRND4321, I don't have to ride my brakes, but in my Dad's GMC Envoy, he sometimes puts into 3 out of the PRND321.

People read those?

I leafed through owner's manuals, and never read a thing about forbading you from shifting into numbers, there are lockouts, you have to press the brake pedal to disengage park or to shift into neutral or reverse, in an auto.

OK.

Then why buy manual?

[Auzkhia]

It isn't, and in some cases you have to use it for engine braking It's more useful in trucks though, on downhill roads, trucks reduce gear. If I put my car, into "4" out of the PRND4321, I don't have to ride my brakes, but in my Dad's GMC Envoy, he sometimes puts into 3 out of the PRND321.

I leafed through owner's manuals, and never read a thing about forbading you from shifting into numbers, there are lockouts, you have to press the brake pedal to disengage park or to shift into neutral or reverse, in an auto.

OK.

Then why buy manual?

For the experience, if that's you're into, and of course, give you something do besides just steering.

Personally, I don't like the clutch pedal, or at least Audi's clutch. But, it's a good skill to know. Since there are some good cars that are manual only, like the Focus RS.

[Petrolheadia]

OK.

Then why buy manual?

For the experience, if that's you're into.

Personally, I don't like the clutch pedal, or at least Audi's clutch. But, it's a good skill to know. Since there are some good cars that are manual only, like the Focus RS.

Then it's not a good car.

[The Two Jerseys]

OK.

Then why buy manual?

For the experience, if that's you're into, and of course, give you something do besides just steering.

Personally, I don't like the clutch pedal, or at least Audi's clutch. But, it's a good skill to know. Since there are some good cars that are manual only, like the Focus RS.

Also, just because you can shift an automatic manually, that doesn't mean it's particularly good at being shifted manually.

[Auzkhia]

For the experience, if that's you're into.

Personally, I don't like the clutch pedal, or at least Audi's clutch. But, it's a good skill to know. Since there are some good cars that are manual only, like the Focus RS.

Then it's not a good car.

I disagree for two reasons.
1: A perfect design should have a character flaw (Conversely some good cars never had a manual, such as: Buick Regal Grand National or Mercedes Benz E63 AMG)
2: It's a hot hatch, it's supposed to be basic and simple, and about providing the experience of a sports car in a practical body. Manuals, nowadays, are just a toy, all practical differences have been erased, as both types of gearboxes will do you fine in the real world. Thus, the manual vs auto war has lost any objective meaning, and the whole debate has been rendered superficial. In other words, get what you prefer.

Although, maybe an auto/dct version might needed if you only have one arm, or one leg, so you could make the case of how manual-exclusive cars are a bit ableist. But that's a topic for a different time.

[Auzkhia]

For the experience, if that's you're into, and of course, give you something do besides just steering.

Personally, I don't like the clutch pedal, or at least Audi's clutch. But, it's a good skill to know. Since there are some good cars that are manual only, like the Focus RS.

Also, just because you can shift an automatic manually, that doesn't mean it's particularly good at being shifted manually.

True, the lever of manual feels a lot different than tipping an electronic shifter or flapping a paddle.

It's all about the sensation.

[The Two Jerseys]

Also, just because you can shift an automatic manually, that doesn't mean it's particularly good at being shifted manually.

True, the lever of manual feels a lot different than tipping an electronic shifter or flapping a paddle.

It's all about the sensation.

Or it it's like the GM 6-speed autos:

*push paddle*

Wait for it...

*shift*

[Novus America]

Then it's not a good car.

I disagree for two reasons.
1: A perfect design should have a character flaw (Conversely some good cars never had a manual, such as: Buick Regal Grand National or Mercedes Benz E63 AMG)
2: It's a hot hatch, it's supposed to be basic and simple, and about providing the experience of a sports car in a practical body. Manuals, nowadays, are just a toy, all practical differences have been erased, as both types of gearboxes will do you fine in the real world. Thus, the manual vs auto war has lost any objective meaning, and the whole debate has been rendered superficial. In other words, get what you prefer.

Although, maybe an auto/dct version might needed if you only have one arm, or one leg, so you could make the case of how manual-exclusive cars are a bit ableist. But that's a topic for a different time.

Exactly. Mannuals no longer offer practical benefits, but still might be a fun toy for some. The Focus RS is not a utilitarian vehicle. It is a toy. Not everyone is driven by practicality.

[Auzkhia]

I disagree for two reasons.
1: A perfect design should have a character flaw (Conversely some good cars never had a manual, such as: Buick Regal Grand National or Mercedes Benz E63 AMG)
2: It's a hot hatch, it's supposed to be basic and simple, and about providing the experience of a sports car in a practical body. Manuals, nowadays, are just a toy, all practical differences have been erased, as both types of gearboxes will do you fine in the real world. Thus, the manual vs auto war has lost any objective meaning, and the whole debate has been rendered superficial. In other words, get what you prefer.

Although, maybe an auto/dct version might needed if you only have one arm, or one leg, so you could make the case of how manual-exclusive cars are a bit ableist. But that's a topic for a different time.

Exactly. Mannuals no longer offer practical benefits, but still might be a fun toy for some. The Focus RS is not a utilitarian vehicle. It is a toy. Not everyone is driven by practicality.

Well, it's less of a toy than, let's say, an Ariel Atom (I said Miata, but you can daily one), it can seat more people and has a bigger trunk, it's a hot hatch, after all. If you could only have one car, and you want to go to the track, a hot hatch is good. Same thing with Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Golf GTI, and Civic Type R.

[The Two Jerseys]

So I just tried playing around with shifting my automatic manually, and apparently I was wrong about my 4T40: it's really a 3-speed + overdrive, because it shifts through the first three gears automatically in "3".

At least my pickup with the TH700R4 labels the shifter correctly as PRN[D]D21, although if I remember correctly the Hydramatic won't actually hold 2nd gear...

[Costa Fierro]

It isn't, and in some cases you have to use it for engine braking It's more useful in trucks though, on downhill roads, trucks reduce gear. If I put my car, into "4" out of the PRND4321, I don't have to ride my brakes, but in my Dad's GMC Envoy, he sometimes puts into 3 out of the PRND321.

I leafed through owner's manuals, and never read a thing about forbading you from shifting into numbers, there are lockouts, you have to press the brake pedal to disengage park or to shift into neutral or reverse, in an auto.

OK.

Then why buy manual?

Cost, really. Manual transmissions are almost universally found in base specification vehicle models these days. And cost is one of the main factors especially if you're buying fleet vehicles.

[Novus America]

OK.

Then why buy manual?

Cost, really. Manual transmissions are almost universally found in base specification vehicle models these days. And cost is one of the main factors especially if you're buying fleet vehicles.

Depends. Manuals are not always cheaper anymore. Usually the mannual, if available is an option, automatic the standard. Also especially with fleet vehicles any cost savings is offset by the extra training and the need to have a free hand to operate communications equipment.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It isn't, and in some cases you have to use it for engine braking It's more useful in trucks though, on downhill roads, trucks reduce gear. If I put my car, into "4" out of the PRND4321, I don't have to ride my brakes, but in my Dad's GMC Envoy, he sometimes puts into 3 out of the PRND321.

I leafed through owner's manuals, and never read a thing about forbading you from shifting into numbers, there are lockouts, you have to press the brake pedal to disengage park or to shift into neutral or reverse, in an auto.

OK.

Then why buy manual?

Many people still buy manuals for the experience. And it's always a useful skill to have in the case of an emergency.

[Elwher]

Lol i wouldn't go so far as saying ALL automatics in the last 50 years have had paddles shifters / tiptronic-style shifting


however, nowadays high-performance automatics are better than manuals in every possible way except for maybe cost, reliability and cost to maintain/repair. a modern high performance automatic transmission esp. dual-clutch type can shift quicker than a human can and more and more it can shift more economically.

Apparently, reliability problems only start to arise at the 100-150k mile mark.

Admittedly not a new car, but there are only two types of Ford Probes with 80-120K miles and automatic trannys. Either it has been replaced or it is about to fail. The standard was the only way to get over 120K without an expensive repair.