The General Car Thread.

[Petrolheadia]

Talking about the car market, my dad's now shopping for a cheap 4x4 that he could use for his DIY stuff - carrying stuff from the hardware store, pulling a wood trailer, etc.

Budget: originally 6-8k PLZ (about $2k), but now we raised it to 8-10k (ca. $2500).

The car: We started looking at the surroundings of Puławy, and our original budget was filled with cars that we found too worn and offroady - 90s Discoveries, Explorers, S10 Blazers, Pajeros.

However, we noticed that by raising the budget a bit, we could find an early CR-V or Forester. And these are the two cars we're choosing between now.

The one that will be at the best price for the fair condition we're looking for will get bought.

[Petrolheadia]

The choice... The choice...

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine it's 1992. You are a Pennsylvanian 47-year-old lawyer, looking for a fun manual car to compliment your 1979 BMW 530 sedan. The new car has to be special and fun to own. The options in your budget are:
- Grey-import 1982 VW Golf GTI 3-door hatchback, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswage ... n_Golf_GTI)

- 1982 Fiat X1/9 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_X1/9 ... ted_States),

- 1981 Triumph TR8 coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR8),

- 1978 BMW 635csi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_6_Series_(E24)),

- 1972 Jaguar E-Type roadster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_E-Type#Series_3),

- 1971 Chevrolet Corvette 454 ci LS6 swap convertible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(C3))

- 1971 Ford Mustang 429 ci Super Cobra Jet hardtop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Must ... generation)),

- 1971 TVR Vixen 2500 coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Vixen),

- 1970 Chevrolet Camaro SS396 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet ... generation)),

- 1969 Plymouth 'Cuda 426 ci "Six-Pack" coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Barracuda),

- 1967 Porsche 911S with an overhauled engine and suspension (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_(classic)),

- 1932 Chevrolet Series BA Confederate hot rod coupe with a 327 ci swap (310 HP), 1st gen Mustang suspension and brakes, and a matte black paintjob (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet ... onfederate).

Which one would you buy? I think I'd get the Porsche.

[Cannot think of a name]

Only four cautions in 24 hours at Daytona. Cadillac, Ford, Lambo top to bottom class.

[Petrolheadia]

Only four cautions in 24 hours at Daytona. Cadillac, Ford, Lambo top to bottom class.

Now, what about 24 Days of Daytona?

[Elwher]

Only four cautions in 24 hours at Daytona. Cadillac, Ford, Lambo top to bottom class.

Now, what about 24 Days of Daytona?

We have gone from race to rally.

[The Two Jerseys]

Only four cautions in 24 hours at Daytona. Cadillac, Ford, Lambo top to bottom class.

Now, what about 24 Days of Daytona?

That's why Speedweeks exists.

[Petrolheadia]

I've been looking at pictures of seized drug dealer cars and noticed that British dealers like Range Rovers, Bentleys, Fords and Minis, while US dealers like GM fullsize SUVs and SUTs, modern muscle cars and Corvettes.

What makes them so reluctant to buy imports?

[Vassenor]

I've been looking at pictures of seized drug dealer cars and noticed that British dealers like Range Rovers, Bentleys, Fords and Minis, while US dealers like GM fullsize SUVs and SUTs, modern muscle cars and Corvettes.

What makes them so reluctant to buy imports?

Because grey-importing a left-hand drive vehicle is a right nightmare? Different ideas about what constitutes a status symbol?

[Petrolheadia]

I've been looking at pictures of seized drug dealer cars and noticed that British dealers like Range Rovers, Bentleys, Fords and Minis, while US dealers like GM fullsize SUVs and SUTs, modern muscle cars and Corvettes.

What makes them so reluctant to buy imports?

Because grey-importing a left-hand drive vehicle is a right nightmare? Different ideas about what constitutes a status symbol?

I was talking about "imports" in the American English sense, in which any car not from your country is an import, even if sold through an official dealership.

[Vassenor]

Because grey-importing a left-hand drive vehicle is a right nightmare? Different ideas about what constitutes a status symbol?

I was talking about "imports" in the American English sense, in which any car not from your country is an import, even if sold through an official dealership.

The high-end SUV market in the UK is pretty small anyway.

[Petrolheadia]

When you see something else besides the gorilla...

[Patridam]

Imagine it's 1992. You are a Pennsylvanian 47-year-old lawyer, looking for a fun manual car to compliment your 1979 BMW 530 sedan. The new car has to be special and fun to own. The options in your budget are:
- Grey-import 1982 VW Golf GTI 3-door hatchback, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswage ... n_Golf_GTI)

- 1982 Fiat X1/9 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_X1/9 ... ted_States),

- 1981 Triumph TR8 coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR8),

- 1978 BMW 635csi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_6_Series_(E24)),

- 1972 Jaguar E-Type roadster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_E-Type#Series_3),

- 1971 Chevrolet Corvette 454 ci LS6 swap convertible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(C3))

- 1971 Ford Mustang 429 ci Super Cobra Jet hardtop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Must ... generation)),

- 1971 TVR Vixen 2500 coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Vixen),

- 1970 Chevrolet Camaro SS396 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet ... generation)),

- 1969 Plymouth 'Cuda 426 ci "Six-Pack" coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Barracuda),

- 1967 Porsche 911S with an overhauled engine and suspension (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_(classic)),

- 1932 Chevrolet Series BA Confederate hot rod coupe with a 327 ci swap (310 HP), 1st gen Mustang suspension and brakes, and a matte black paintjob (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet ... onfederate).

Which one would you buy? I think I'd get the Porsche.

There weren't 530's made in 1979, they stopped after 78'.

But I'd go with the six pack 'Cuda, it balances out the BMW by being obnoxious, straight line, simple & powerful; instead of refined, taut-handling, complex and moderately-powered.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine it's 1992. You are a Pennsylvanian 47-year-old lawyer, looking for a fun manual car to compliment your 1979 BMW 530 sedan. The new car has to be special and fun to own. The options in your budget are:
- Grey-import 1982 VW Golf GTI 3-door hatchback, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswage ... n_Golf_GTI)

- 1982 Fiat X1/9 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_X1/9 ... ted_States),

- 1981 Triumph TR8 coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR8),

- 1978 BMW 635csi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_6_Series_(E24)),

- 1972 Jaguar E-Type roadster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_E-Type#Series_3),

- 1971 Chevrolet Corvette 454 ci LS6 swap convertible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(C3))

- 1971 Ford Mustang 429 ci Super Cobra Jet hardtop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Must ... generation)),

- 1971 TVR Vixen 2500 coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Vixen),

- 1970 Chevrolet Camaro SS396 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet ... generation)),

- 1969 Plymouth 'Cuda 426 ci "Six-Pack" coupe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Barracuda),

- 1967 Porsche 911S with an overhauled engine and suspension (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_(classic)),

- 1932 Chevrolet Series BA Confederate hot rod coupe with a 327 ci swap (310 HP), 1st gen Mustang suspension and brakes, and a matte black paintjob (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet ... onfederate).

Which one would you buy? I think I'd get the Porsche.

There weren't 530's made in 1979, they stopped after 78'.

But I'd go with the six pack 'Cuda, it balances out the BMW by being obnoxious, straight line, simple & powerful; instead of refined, taut-handling, complex and moderately-powered.

Nice you're back.

So, have you bought the GM car you had to get?

[Petrolheadia]

I've just seen the 2017 US car sales statistics - and the sedan is dying.

Crossovers and SUVs took the biggest market share, even though their bestseller, the Toyota RAV4, is at #4, with over 407k sold.

Then we have trucks - and the Big Three models took the whole podium, with Ford F-Series at #1 (over 896k), the Silverado far behind with over 585k sold, and the Ram in #3, barely breaking the half-a-million barrier.

Only in #6 we see a sedan, the Toyota Camry (just above 387k). In #8 there's a compact - the Honda Civic (377,286; 629 units less than the CR-V).

And nothing outside the fullsize truck, compact crossover, midsize sedan and compact segment got into the Top 10 (#1 - F-Series, #2 - Silverado, #3 - Ram, #4 - RAV4, #5 - Rogue, #6 - Camry, #7 - CR-V, #8 - Civic, #9 - Corolla, #10 - Accord).

I think that this might mean the traditional sedan is now where the traditional US fullsize was in the 80s - its position seems solid enough, but don't be surprised if some 20 years from now Toyota and Honda announce the cancellation of the Camry and Accord.

That's what happened to the Euro Accord, and will probably happen to the Avensis soon.

[Auzkhia]

I've just seen the 2017 US car sales statistics - and the sedan is dying.

Crossovers and SUVs took the biggest market share, even though their bestseller, the Toyota RAV4, is at #4, with over 407k sold.

Then we have trucks - and the Big Three models took the whole podium, with Ford F-Series at #1 (over 896k), the Silverado far behind with over 585k sold, and the Ram in #3, barely breaking the half-a-million barrier.

Only in #6 we see a sedan, the Toyota Camry (just above 387k). In #8 there's a compact - the Honda Civic (377,286; 629 units less than the CR-V).

And nothing outside the fullsize truck, compact crossover, midsize sedan and compact segment got into the Top 10 (#1 - F-Series, #2 - Silverado, #3 - Ram, #4 - RAV4, #5 - Rogue, #6 - Camry, #7 - CR-V, #8 - Civic, #9 - Corolla, #10 - Accord).

I think that this might mean the traditional sedan is now where the traditional US fullsize was in the 80s - its position seems solid enough, but don't be surprised if some 20 years from now Toyota and Honda announce the cancellation of the Camry and Accord.

That's what happened to the Euro Accord, and will probably happen to the Avensis soon.

Who needs a Toyota Camry when one can have this soon?

I'd buy that, especially new as a way to vote with my money.

[Petrolheadia]

I've just seen the 2017 US car sales statistics - and the sedan is dying.

Crossovers and SUVs took the biggest market share, even though their bestseller, the Toyota RAV4, is at #4, with over 407k sold.

Then we have trucks - and the Big Three models took the whole podium, with Ford F-Series at #1 (over 896k), the Silverado far behind with over 585k sold, and the Ram in #3, barely breaking the half-a-million barrier.

Only in #6 we see a sedan, the Toyota Camry (just above 387k). In #8 there's a compact - the Honda Civic (377,286; 629 units less than the CR-V).

And nothing outside the fullsize truck, compact crossover, midsize sedan and compact segment got into the Top 10 (#1 - F-Series, #2 - Silverado, #3 - Ram, #4 - RAV4, #5 - Rogue, #6 - Camry, #7 - CR-V, #8 - Civic, #9 - Corolla, #10 - Accord).

I think that this might mean the traditional sedan is now where the traditional US fullsize was in the 80s - its position seems solid enough, but don't be surprised if some 20 years from now Toyota and Honda announce the cancellation of the Camry and Accord.

That's what happened to the Euro Accord, and will probably happen to the Avensis soon.

Who needs a Toyota Camry when one can have this soon?

I'd buy that, especially new as a way to vote with my money.

It's a typical Opel - in other words, a meh car, but not as unlikeably meh as a Mitsubishi.

[Auzkhia]

Who needs a Toyota Camry when one can have this soon?

I'd buy that, especially new as a way to vote with my money.

It's a typical Opel - in other words, a meh car, but not as unlikeably meh as a Mitsubishi.

Except they're making it into a cheap luxury car. Opel/Vauxhall is more like Chevrolet than Buick.

[Costa Fierro]

I've just seen the 2017 US car sales statistics - and the sedan is dying.

Crossovers and SUVs took the biggest market share, even though their bestseller, the Toyota RAV4, is at #4, with over 407k sold.

Then we have trucks - and the Big Three models took the whole podium, with Ford F-Series at #1 (over 896k), the Silverado far behind with over 585k sold, and the Ram in #3, barely breaking the half-a-million barrier.

Only in #6 we see a sedan, the Toyota Camry (just above 387k). In #8 there's a compact - the Honda Civic (377,286; 629 units less than the CR-V).

And nothing outside the fullsize truck, compact crossover, midsize sedan and compact segment got into the Top 10 (#1 - F-Series, #2 - Silverado, #3 - Ram, #4 - RAV4, #5 - Rogue, #6 - Camry, #7 - CR-V, #8 - Civic, #9 - Corolla, #10 - Accord).

I think that this might mean the traditional sedan is now where the traditional US fullsize was in the 80s - its position seems solid enough, but don't be surprised if some 20 years from now Toyota and Honda announce the cancellation of the Camry and Accord.

That's what happened to the Euro Accord, and will probably happen to the Avensis soon.

That's why Ford axed the Falcon and Holden axed the Commodore (well Australian-built ones anyway). Sales were dropping to the point where the Falcon wasn't making it into the top 10 anymore and Commodore sales were only being propped up by fleet buyers.

For the year to October 2017, the top 10 selling vehicles in Australia were, beginning with most sold: Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger, Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3, Hyundai i30, Mazda CX-5, Toyota Camry, Hyundai Tucson, Holden Commodore, and the Mitsubishi Triton.

In New Zealand, 2017 saw the disappearance of a large sedan from the list. In order, the most sold vehicle was the Ford Ranger, followed by the Toyota Hilux, Toyota Corolla, Toyota RAV4, Holden Colorado, Mitsubishi Triton, Kia Sportage, Mazda CX-5, Nissan Navara and the Toyota Hiace.

[Petrolheadia]

It's a typical Opel - in other words, a meh car, but not as unlikeably meh as a Mitsubishi.

Except they're making it into a cheap luxury car. Opel/Vauxhall is more like Chevrolet than Buick.

I don't think they change anything.

Badge engineering FTW!

[Cannot think of a name]

I've just seen the 2017 US car sales statistics - and the sedan is dying.

Crossovers and SUVs took the biggest market share, even though their bestseller, the Toyota RAV4, is at #4, with over 407k sold.

Then we have trucks - and the Big Three models took the whole podium, with Ford F-Series at #1 (over 896k), the Silverado far behind with over 585k sold, and the Ram in #3, barely breaking the half-a-million barrier.

Only in #6 we see a sedan, the Toyota Camry (just above 387k). In #8 there's a compact - the Honda Civic (377,286; 629 units less than the CR-V).

And nothing outside the fullsize truck, compact crossover, midsize sedan and compact segment got into the Top 10 (#1 - F-Series, #2 - Silverado, #3 - Ram, #4 - RAV4, #5 - Rogue, #6 - Camry, #7 - CR-V, #8 - Civic, #9 - Corolla, #10 - Accord).

I think that this might mean the traditional sedan is now where the traditional US fullsize was in the 80s - its position seems solid enough, but don't be surprised if some 20 years from now Toyota and Honda announce the cancellation of the Camry and Accord.

That's what happened to the Euro Accord, and will probably happen to the Avensis soon.

The F-series is a bit of a cheat when it comes to sales. First of all, "F" actually covers a range of models. It's not just engine size, the trucks themselves get bigger as the numbers rise. Then there's all the fleet trucks, not just ones that stay pickups but the ones that become tow trucks and cherry pickers...on and on. So because of that pickups always top out US sales but it doesn't mean that we're all buying F-150s.

[Auzkhia]

Except they're making it into a cheap luxury car. Opel/Vauxhall is more like Chevrolet than Buick.

I don't think they change anything.

Badge engineering FTW!

Not even leather and wood grain count?

I've just seen the 2017 US car sales statistics - and the sedan is dying.

Crossovers and SUVs took the biggest market share, even though their bestseller, the Toyota RAV4, is at #4, with over 407k sold.

Then we have trucks - and the Big Three models took the whole podium, with Ford F-Series at #1 (over 896k), the Silverado far behind with over 585k sold, and the Ram in #3, barely breaking the half-a-million barrier.

Only in #6 we see a sedan, the Toyota Camry (just above 387k). In #8 there's a compact - the Honda Civic (377,286; 629 units less than the CR-V).

And nothing outside the fullsize truck, compact crossover, midsize sedan and compact segment got into the Top 10 (#1 - F-Series, #2 - Silverado, #3 - Ram, #4 - RAV4, #5 - Rogue, #6 - Camry, #7 - CR-V, #8 - Civic, #9 - Corolla, #10 - Accord).

I think that this might mean the traditional sedan is now where the traditional US fullsize was in the 80s - its position seems solid enough, but don't be surprised if some 20 years from now Toyota and Honda announce the cancellation of the Camry and Accord.

That's what happened to the Euro Accord, and will probably happen to the Avensis soon.

The F-series is a bit of a cheat when it comes to sales. First of all, "F" actually covers a range of models. It's not just engine size, the trucks themselves get bigger as the numbers rise. Then there's all the fleet trucks, not just ones that stay pickups but the ones that become tow trucks and cherry pickers...on and on. So because of that pickups always top out US sales but it doesn't mean that we're all buying F-150s.

Yeah, fleet and commercial sales definitely inflate truck sales.

[Petrolheadia]

I don't think they change anything.

Badge engineering FTW!

Not even leather and wood grain count?

Plastic wood? Like in a bargain basement 2001 Hyundai Sonata or Rover 75?

[Cannot think of a name]

Who's up for some 70s weirdness?

Someone had one of these in my hometown that was somehow involved in soccer, because I'd see it during soccer practices.

[Petrolheadia]

Who's up for some 70s weirdness?

Someone had one of these in my hometown that was somehow involved in soccer, because I'd see it during soccer practices.

I remember once seeing a '77 fastback conversion for sale in similar, non-running condition for $1000 somewhere in New England.