The Christian Discussion Thread VI

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

Donations, any number of sources. Alucard puts it colorfully.

At least Alucard didn't gamble away money meant to help refugees. God have mercy on this idiot's soul...

who's this Alucard fellow

I'm suspicious, his name is Dracula backwards

[Luminesa]

You sir. You sir.

Strip this punk of his duties immediately. If he wants to be a Good Time Charlie, he can go do that without a collar.

Also. How the flip did a parish priest get a hold of half a million dollars?! O.o

That's easy.

What's hard to believe is how come nobody really keeps checks on its priests to prevent this?

This is why I'm not too warm of church authority anymore (or giving tithes, for that matter). Small churches founded by independent religious people also do this.

Normally, priests get a fixed income. And it's not much. Which is what confuses me: I still want to know how he managed to get all that money? Like, how did he manage to get a hold of that much money without anyone noticing?

[Salus Maior]

Exactly. Better to gamble one's own money away and enjoy than to tithe it and risk it being wasted in this case.

Yeah, never donate to charities, it could be wasted ;P

[Salus Maior]

Well, in the First Crusade specifically, the Church condemned the "people's crusade" which had committed the atrocities on the European Jews. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland ... h_response

Not for the Jews, but since they were too busy killing Jews they weren't getting their job done.

Partially true, but some Catholics did give their lives to protect them.

[Athartha]

It is entirely possible he will only be suspended for some time (unless the article indicates the Bishop has already made a decision on the matter, I did not read it thoroughly). Personally, I think a suspension is not appropriate if the allegations are true. At the very least he should be laicised. Now, with the amount of money allegedly lost (and the purpose that money was for), I could also see an excommunication in the future.

Why should he be reduced to the lay state?

Furthermore, excommunication is excessive and unnecessary, especially if he regrets what he had done. Recall that excommunication is not an expiatory or vindictive punishment, but rather, it is a medicinal measure intended to bring someone back to the Church by momentarily depriving him of the benefits thereof.

I can understand how degradation might be an appropriate punishment if he is found guilty of what he is accused, but excommunication would not be appropriate, assuming he is contrite.

I have seen clergy be laicised (most outside of the RCC call this defrocking) for gambling excessively with their own money after being warned the first time. Gambling away money that isn't yours, let alone such a large amount? If he is not laicised, he has a more lenient bishop than I.

I am well aware what excommunication is as well; when it comes to clergy if they are unrepentant they may be excommunicated conversely with their laicisation - and depending on how things go in this instance, that very well could occur leading to a temporary excommunication. I think that is going to far, especially for an addiction, but if he does not show remorse for his actions it is in the realm of possibilities.

Fr. Mike +

[Muinordgrad]

1.) Here is Alexandria.

2.) Everything below Alexandria is Cajun.

Reminds me of Georgia: anyone to the East and North of I-16 are generally your cultured Sothorn folk and are actually better than most places in the south. To the west and south, however... you better pack enough guns to fight off a small army. Like, there are rumors of Confederate holdouts down in that crap.

Alexandria? Georgia? I'm so confused.

I mean, I wish I lived in the Caucasian Georgia, place looks fantastic, and with the same amount of burning racial tension as US Georgia!

[Muinordgrad]

That's easy.

What's hard to believe is how come nobody really keeps checks on its priests to prevent this?

This is why I'm not too warm of church authority anymore (or giving tithes, for that matter). Small churches founded by independent religious people also do this.

Normally, priests get a fixed income. And it's not much. Which is what confuses me: I still want to know how he managed to get all that money? Like, how did he manage to get a hold of that much money without anyone noticing?

That's my question. I know that there are some... sizable differences between your average SB and Catholic churches, but at least in some of the smaller SB churches, Pastors get paid as if manna rains down on them from the heavens so they don't have to pay to eat. How did this dude get all that cash without anyone noticing?

[Athartha]

Normally, priests get a fixed income. And it's not much. Which is what confuses me: I still want to know how he managed to get all that money? Like, how did he manage to get a hold of that much money without anyone noticing?

That's my question. I know that there are some... sizable differences between your average SB and Catholic churches, but at least in some of the smaller SB churches, Pastors get paid as if manna rains down on them from the heavens so they don't have to pay to eat. How did this dude get all that cash without anyone noticing?

I'm not sure how universal this is, but at my parish I have access to our bank account. I'm the one who deposits money into it weekly. It's entirely possible he had access for the same reason. And we don't really check the balance all that often since we typically know at the start of the month it had X in it, and we've added X to it since the month began and we've taken X out of it for these expenses. We seldom of have reason to think of checking it/monitoring it more closely.

[Grenartia]

That's my question. I know that there are some... sizable differences between your average SB and Catholic churches, but at least in some of the smaller SB churches, Pastors get paid as if manna rains down on them from the heavens so they don't have to pay to eat. How did this dude get all that cash without anyone noticing?

I'm not sure how universal this is, but at my parish I have access to our bank account. I'm the one who deposits money into it weekly. It's entirely possible he had access for the same reason. And we don't really check the balance all that often since we typically know at the start of the month it had X in it, and we've added X to it since the month began and we've taken X out of it for these expenses. We seldom of have reason to think of checking it/monitoring it more closely.

What about interest?

[Diopolis]

What people from outside Louisiana think about Louisiana:

1.) Everything is New Orleans or swamp.

2.) Everything is Cajun.

3.) Everyone knows voodoo.

4.) Everyone is French.

5.) All of the above.

What you actually need to know about Louisiana:

1.) Here is Alexandria.

2.) Everything below Alexandria is Cajun.

3.) Everything above it is Texiana.

4.) And most people here still don't know voodoo. XD

I always just said everything above Alexandria is redneck; Texan, Arkansas, and Mississippi

My relatives in Louisiana always said it was southern Arkansas.

[Diopolis]

That's easy.

What's hard to believe is how come nobody really keeps checks on its priests to prevent this?

This is why I'm not too warm of church authority anymore (or giving tithes, for that matter). Small churches founded by independent religious people also do this.

Normally, priests get a fixed income. And it's not much. Which is what confuses me: I still want to know how he managed to get all that money? Like, how did he manage to get a hold of that much money without anyone noticing?

A decent sized parish can have a massive budget, so he probably just embezzled it. He got caught, but he'll probably never be allowed to pastor again, assuming he's not just permanently laicized.
When I began the discernment process, the book my diocese recommended mentioned this; any previous gambling problems excludes you automatically from consideration for the diocesan priesthood because of the potential for something like this. I would imagine that the actual enforcement of that rule varies from diocese to diocese and bishop to bishop, but it's a real possibility that they are alert for.

[Cill Airne]

Normally, priests get a fixed income. And it's not much. Which is what confuses me: I still want to know how he managed to get all that money? Like, how did he manage to get a hold of that much money without anyone noticing?

A decent sized parish can have a massive budget, so he probably just embezzled it. He got caught, but he'll probably never be allowed to pastor again, assuming he's not just permanently laicized.
When I began the discernment process, the book my diocese recommended mentioned this; any previous gambling problems excludes you automatically from consideration for the diocesan priesthood because of the potential for something like this. I would imagine that the actual enforcement of that rule varies from diocese to diocese and bishop to bishop, but it's a real possibility that they are alert for.

Whilst I am sure it does not happen often (I should like to think it is a very rare occurrence), I feel it happens more than we realise. My own parish had problems with something similar, three rectors ago. He had embezzled money from the parish over three decades, and it was finally brought to court. In total, he'd taken well over a million pounds from the parish.

I do, however, think defrocking / laicisation is an appropriate response for something like this.

[Grenartia]

I always just said everything above Alexandria is redneck; Texan, Arkansas, and Mississippi

My relatives in Louisiana always said it was southern Arkansas.

What part of Louisiana?

[Diopolis]

A decent sized parish can have a massive budget, so he probably just embezzled it. He got caught, but he'll probably never be allowed to pastor again, assuming he's not just permanently laicized.
When I began the discernment process, the book my diocese recommended mentioned this; any previous gambling problems excludes you automatically from consideration for the diocesan priesthood because of the potential for something like this. I would imagine that the actual enforcement of that rule varies from diocese to diocese and bishop to bishop, but it's a real possibility that they are alert for.

Whilst I am sure it does not happen often (I should like to think it is a very rare occurrence), I feel it happens more than we realise. My own parish had problems with something similar, three rectors ago. He had embezzled money from the parish over three decades, and it was finally brought to court. In total, he'd taken well over a million pounds from the parish.

I do, however, think defrocking / laicisation is an appropriate response for something like this.

I can't blame a man for gambling. Cards aren't my cup of tea(although I do appreciate the lottery and an occasional dice game), but there's nothing inherently wrong with it.
I do however see a reason for caution. Parish budgets can be huge, and priests have a fair amount of latitude in spending it, and as Fr. Mike explained there aren't very many audits.

[Diopolis]

My relatives in Louisiana always said it was southern Arkansas.

What part of Louisiana?

South of Lafayette. I'm cajun on my mother's side.

[Grenartia]

What part of Louisiana?

South of Lafayette. I'm cajun on my mother's side.

I've only been out there once, on a trip to San Antonio.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Whilst I am sure it does not happen often (I should like to think it is a very rare occurrence), I feel it happens more than we realise. My own parish had problems with something similar, three rectors ago. He had embezzled money from the parish over three decades, and it was finally brought to court. In total, he'd taken well over a million pounds from the parish.

I do, however, think defrocking / laicisation is an appropriate response for something like this.

I can't blame a man for gambling. Cards aren't my cup of tea(although I do appreciate the lottery and an occasional dice game), but there's nothing inherently wrong with it.
I do however see a reason for caution. Parish budgets can be huge, and priests have a fair amount of latitude in spending it, and as Fr. Mike explained there aren't very many audits.

Dice are dangerous. My first roll ever, I rolled for about 25 minutes straight. Made everybody at the table rich except me cause I hadn't figure out how to bet yet. Haven't caught anything close to that luck since, but It is mighty tempting to try. I mainly stick to Poker. It's less a gambling game, more one of patience and skill, so i feel less guilty about it too.

[Herskerstad]

I am no expert on chaldean administrative matters, but, short of him lying about the utilizations of the withdrawals the system itself would probably need something of a revision.

As little as my own opinion may matter on the subject. I think it merits a defrocking which is not to say that he should be cast out of the community, church or in any way ostracised, but this was not a simple case of having ones hand stuck in a cookie jar and being caught nor just a personal vice. This was theft from the poor pure and simple even if there is an element of addiction.

[Diopolis]

I can't blame a man for gambling. Cards aren't my cup of tea(although I do appreciate the lottery and an occasional dice game), but there's nothing inherently wrong with it.
I do however see a reason for caution. Parish budgets can be huge, and priests have a fair amount of latitude in spending it, and as Fr. Mike explained there aren't very many audits.

Dice are dangerous. My first roll ever, I rolled for about 25 minutes straight. Made everybody at the table rich except me cause I hadn't figure out how to bet yet. Haven't caught anything close to that luck since, but It is mighty tempting to try. I mainly stick to Poker. It's less a gambling game, more one of patience and skill, so i feel less guilty about it too.

See, I don't gamble often enough to have any skill, so I try to stick to games of chance.
As for losing, I wouldn't expect to keep any money I'd gamble with.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I think we're all forgetting that he confessed his sin, (albeit he didn't have much of a choice) and is getting treatment for said addiction during his suspension.

[Herskerstad]

Dice are dangerous. My first roll ever, I rolled for about 25 minutes straight. Made everybody at the table rich except me cause I hadn't figure out how to bet yet. Haven't caught anything close to that luck since, but It is mighty tempting to try. I mainly stick to Poker. It's less a gambling game, more one of patience and skill, so i feel less guilty about it too.

See, I don't gamble often enough to have any skill, so I try to stick to games of chance.
As for losing, I wouldn't expect to keep any money I'd gamble with.

I don't gamble often, I mean I used to do it more with pokers and the casino and could make a pretty penny out of it too, but you'd not see me on any major tournament.

I treat the casino as essentially an expensive theme park for adults. I don't expect to come home with huge winnings and expect to lose more than I win, but I bring enough to have a good time which is my end goal when I do frequent it in Sweden.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Dice are dangerous. My first roll ever, I rolled for about 25 minutes straight. Made everybody at the table rich except me cause I hadn't figure out how to bet yet. Haven't caught anything close to that luck since, but It is mighty tempting to try. I mainly stick to Poker. It's less a gambling game, more one of patience and skill, so i feel less guilty about it too.

See, I don't gamble often enough to have any skill, so I try to stick to games of chance.
As for losing, I wouldn't expect to keep any money I'd gamble with.

I picked it up in the Marines. The circumstances of my station, made it so every late October through early December, I pretty much had an all expenses paid trip to Las Vegas every weekend. And several week long recruiting trips there during the summers.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

See, I don't gamble often enough to have any skill, so I try to stick to games of chance.
As for losing, I wouldn't expect to keep any money I'd gamble with.

I don't gamble often, I mean I used to do it more with pokers and the casino and could make a pretty penny out of it too, but you'd not see me on any major tournament.

I treat the casino as essentially an expensive theme park for adults. I don't expect to come home with huge winnings and expect to lose more than I win, but I bring enough to have a good time which is my end goal when I do frequent it in Sweden.

Let's be honest, we all just sit down for the free booze.

[Wallenburg]

A staunch Calvinist dies one day and goes to the Pearly Gates. There, he sees two lines. Hanging over the end of one line is a sign that says "Free Will" and over the other says "Pre-Determined". Being a staunch Calvinist, he gets into the "Pre-Determined" line.

An angel with a clipboard comes along after a bit and asks him, "Why are you in this line?" He answers "Well, because I picked this one I guess." The angel glares over its glasses for a moment and then admonishes him, "You picked it? You're supposed to be in the other one then, dummy!"

The Calvinist switches lines. Eventually, another angel with another clipboard happens upon him and asks him why he's in this line.

Our hero replies, "Well, some guy told me I'm supposed to be in this one!"

Free will and pre-determination are compatible concepts.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

A staunch Calvinist dies one day and goes to the Pearly Gates. There, he sees two lines. Hanging over the end of one line is a sign that says "Free Will" and over the other says "Pre-Determined". Being a staunch Calvinist, he gets into the "Pre-Determined" line.

An angel with a clipboard comes along after a bit and asks him, "Why are you in this line?" He answers "Well, because I picked this one I guess." The angel glares over its glasses for a moment and then admonishes him, "You picked it? You're supposed to be in the other one then, dummy!"

The Calvinist switches lines. Eventually, another angel with another clipboard happens upon him and asks him why he's in this line.

Our hero replies, "Well, some guy told me I'm supposed to be in this one!"

Free will and pre-determination are compatible concepts.

To an extent. I suppose we're technically free to pick the paths already pre-determined for us. But the Calvinists will hear none of that.