The Christian Discussion Thread VI

[The Flutterlands]

Yes I meant it, although I was exaggerating a bit

Dull undecorated Churches are not worthy of God's greatness.

So unless a church decorates itself the way you want it, its ungodly?

Yeah, I'm with Calvert on this one. The decorations doesn't matter as much as the worship and devotion to God.

[Luminesa]

Have you discussed this with a pastor or a spiritual director? You know, because you're becoming Catholic on Easter, right? I think.

Oh, goodness no. I'm being confirmed in the Church of England at Easter. Anglicans also receive the Creed before confirmation. Whilst I admire the Roman Catholic Church a great deal, I don't think my views would quite be accepted there.

OHHHHHHH. Okay. Confusion. Sorry. Well, that's still awesome that you're entering the Anglican Church! Coolz!

[Luminesa]

So unless a church decorates itself the way you want it, its ungodly?

Yeah, I'm with Calvert on this one. The decorations doesn't matter as much as the worship and devotion to God.

I mean, if you have the resources to make it beautiful, then by all means do so. If you don't, that's understandable. My reasoning is God is great and beautiful, so we should make great and beautiful buildings to worship Him in.

Definitely at the center of it is the Mass. No doubt about that. But it does help when there's lots of pretty stained glass and whatnot to help lift your heart to God.

[Grand Calvert]

Yeah, I'm with Calvert on this one. The decorations doesn't matter as much as the worship and devotion to God.

I mean, if you have the resources to make it beautiful, then by all means do so. If you don't, that's understandable. My reasoning is God is great and beautiful, so we should make great and beautiful buildings to worship Him in.

Definitely at the center of it is the Mass. No doubt about that. But it does help when there's lots of pretty stained glass and whatnot to help lift your heart to God.

I agree that it is nice to have a decorated church but it isn't exactly necessary.

[Luminesa]

I mean, if you have the resources to make it beautiful, then by all means do so. If you don't, that's understandable. My reasoning is God is great and beautiful, so we should make great and beautiful buildings to worship Him in.

Definitely at the center of it is the Mass. No doubt about that. But it does help when there's lots of pretty stained glass and whatnot to help lift your heart to God.

I agree that it is nice to have a decorated church but it isn't exactly necessary.

I do like beautiful and decorated churches, though. And I do wish there were more of them being built now. Unfortunately, though, they are really expensive projects...

*Considers, when becoming a sister, to build churches.*
*Can't even build with Legos.*
*Wallows in sorrow and peanut butter over lack of architectural skills.*

[Grand Calvert]

I agree that it is nice to have a decorated church but it isn't exactly necessary.

I do like beautiful and decorated churches, though. And I do wish there were more of them being built now. Unfortunately, though, they are really expensive projects...

*Considers, when becoming a sister, to build churches.*
*Can't even build with Legos.*
*Wallows in sorrow and peanut butter over lack of architectural skills.*

lol. Well, at least you can try to protect the churches that are already ornate. I'm more of a plain church guy myself typically, but my family is mostly Catholic and whenever we have events in Catholic churches I will admit that I am often taken aback by their beauty.

[The Princes of the Universe]

This is the first thing that came to mind...

INUYASHA!!! X3

Anime nun. *nod*

*Considers, when becoming a sister, to build churches.*
*Can't even build with Legos.*
*Wallows in sorrow and peanut butter over lack of architectural skills.*

*pat pat*

[Luminesa]

INUYASHA!!! X3

Anime nun. *nod*

*Considers, when becoming a sister, to build churches.*
*Can't even build with Legos.*
*Wallows in sorrow and peanut butter over lack of architectural skills.*

*pat pat*

YOSH.

*Goes to altar to receive final vows.*
*Music plays.*
*Kitty-ears prick.*
*Mother Superior sees cat ears, is very confused.*

[The Princes of the Universe]

*Goes to altar to receive final vows.*
*Music plays.*
*Kitty-ears prick.*
*Mother Superior sees cat ears, is very confused.*

You win an internet!

[Luminesa]

*Goes to altar to receive final vows.*
*Music plays.*
*Kitty-ears prick.*
*Mother Superior sees cat ears, is very confused.*

You win an internet!

YEAH I DO!!!

[Centuran Republic]

Typically when we (Anglicans) think of Confession, we think of the General Confession¹ during Eucharist. Aural confession is done only by request (eg. schedule an appointment with your rector), and at the end of the aural confession the priest also pronounces absolution. Unlike Roman Catholicism, penitential acts are not required for/after confession but are done out of piety to help the healing process.

¹ The General Confession is said during Eucharist, after which the Priest pronounces absolution.

Also, it's not the same in the sense that the Catholic Church mandates Confession once a year, while Anglo-Catholics subscribe to the doctrine of "all may, none must, some should," correct?

I'm currently looking at my 1979 Book of Common Prayer (Episcopal Church of the US). Rite I is probably somewhat familiar to Roman Catholics out of it.

Penitent: Bless me, for I have sinned.
Priest: The Lord be in your heart and upon your lips that you may truly and humbly confess your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Penitent: I confess to Almighty God, to his Church, and to you, that I have sinned by my own fault in thought, word, and deed, in things done and left undone; especially _____________. For these and all other sins which I cannot now remember, I am truly sorry. I pray God to have mercy on me. I firmly intend amendment of life, and I humbly beg forgiveness of God and his Church, and ask you for counsel, direction, and absolution.
(Here the priest may offer counsel, direction and comfort)
Priest: Our Lord Jesus Christ, who has left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him, of his great mercy forgive you all your offenses; and by his authority committed to me, I absolve you from all your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
or
Our Lord Jesus Christ, who offered himself to be sacrificed for us to the Father, and who conferred power on his Church to forgive sins, absolve you through my ministry by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and restore you in the perfect peace of the Church. Amen.
Priest: The Lord has put away all your sins.
Penitent: Thanks be to God.
Priest: Go (or abide) in peace, and pray for me, a sinner.

As for an Anglican Uniate. I unfortunately do not support it at this time. I would love to see unification, but I could not support unification at this current time.

I personally prefer Form Two (from the 1979 Book of Common Prayer) a lot better. But I think both are good just the same.

[Cill Airne]

Oh, goodness no. I'm being confirmed in the Church of England at Easter. Anglicans also receive the Creed before confirmation. Whilst I admire the Roman Catholic Church a great deal, I don't think my views would quite be accepted there.

OHHHHHHH. Okay. Confusion. Sorry. Well, that's still awesome that you're entering the Anglican Church! Coolz!

I get that a lot. The looks I get when I say, "oh! I'm an Anglo-Catholic." People tend to respond with, "you mean Roman Catholic, right?" Lately I've just been identifying as Anglican to avoid that confusion on a day-to-day basis.

Also, it's not the same in the sense that the Catholic Church mandates Confession once a year, while Anglo-Catholics subscribe to the doctrine of "all may, none must, some should," correct?

In Anglo-Catholic Parishes, Confession is done typically before Eucharist every Sunday, and offered periodically throughout the week. In most other Anglican parishes it's only done by request. The "all may, none must, some should" actually isn't unique to Anglo-Catholicism, it's an Anglican sentiment. You'll find Anglicans of all traditions (Low, Broad, High Church) who will say the same.

I personally prefer Form Two (from the 1979 Book of Common Prayer) a lot better. But I think both are good just the same.

I enjoy Rite II/Form II for Reconciliation, but I prefer the first. The second is much more Protestant influenced (which is not a bad thing) and seems less Penitential to me. In either case, they both are beautiful forms for Reconciliation.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I'm sorry your faith has been infiltrated by paganism it is not my fault.

You've been warned repeatedly for this sort of "You're not the RIGHT flavor of Christian you dirty pagan" trolling. Considering you have a track record on your previous nation as well, we're skipping up the line.

*** Efraim-Judah, two week ban for trolling/flamebaiting. ***

Review the site rules upon your return. Given your proven inability to play nice with your fellow believers, I would recommend you stop posting in this thread since you invariably wind up trolling everyone who doesn't ascribe to your exact flavor of Christianity.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

Wait, previous nation? Are we allowed to know what his nation was?

[Centuran Republic]

Also, it's not the same in the sense that the Catholic Church mandates Confession once a year, while Anglo-Catholics subscribe to the doctrine of "all may, none must, some should," correct?

In Anglo-Catholic Parishes, Confession is done typically before Eucharist every Sunday, and offered periodically throughout the week. In most other Anglican parishes it's only done by request. The "all may, none must, some should" actually isn't unique to Anglo-Catholicism, it's an Anglican sentiment. You'll find Anglicans of all traditions (Low, Broad, High Church) who will say the same.

So is the Anglo-Catholic perspective mean that the Sacrament of Reconciliation of a Penitent and the Penitential Rite during the service of the Holy Eucharist (I'm speaking as in the Episcopal Church) have the same effects from absolution?

[Diopolis]

I'm currently looking at my 1979 Book of Common Prayer (Episcopal Church of the US). Rite I is probably somewhat familiar to Roman Catholics out of it.

Penitent: Bless me, for I have sinned.
Priest: The Lord be in your heart and upon your lips that you may truly and humbly confess your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Penitent: I confess to Almighty God, to his Church, and to you, that I have sinned by my own fault in thought, word, and deed, in things done and left undone; especially _____________. For these and all other sins which I cannot now remember, I am truly sorry. I pray God to have mercy on me. I firmly intend amendment of life, and I humbly beg forgiveness of God and his Church, and ask you for counsel, direction, and absolution.
(Here the priest may offer counsel, direction and comfort)
Priest: Our Lord Jesus Christ, who has left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him, of his great mercy forgive you all your offenses; and by his authority committed to me, I absolve you from all your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
or
Our Lord Jesus Christ, who offered himself to be sacrificed for us to the Father, and who conferred power on his Church to forgive sins, absolve you through my ministry by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and restore you in the perfect peace of the Church. Amen.
Priest: The Lord has put away all your sins.
Penitent: Thanks be to God.
Priest: Go (or abide) in peace, and pray for me, a sinner.

As for an Anglican Uniate. I unfortunately do not support it at this time. I would love to see unification, but I could not support unification at this current time.

Why not?

As for our Confessional prayers, we say the "Act of Contrition" (This is probably not the correct name. I'm translating from Arabic, which is the language I use.) while the Priest grants absolution in silence. I'm pretty sure that's for the Roman Rite as well, since I've confessed abroad as well.

Act of contrition is the generally used name. Contrititional act might be a better translation from the official Latin, but act of contrition is in common use. It's generally the third prayer Roman rite schoolchildren are required to memorize after only the Our Father and Hail Mary- these days, it's often the last of them as well.

[Diopolis]

My (Catholic) friends are genuinely surprised when they learn I go to confession.
I don't want to imagine the look on their faces when they learn I go more than the once per year which they deem to be too much.

Too much?
They think you go to confession Too much?
I literally cannot understand why so many millions of people identify as Catholic (or Protestant, or Orthodox, or what have you) without even trying to actually do what their church requires. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Catholics requires to go to confession at least once a year?)
What an insult to martyrs! Some people are literally willing to die for their faith, & others apparently couldn't care less.
If they have so little interest in or disagree so much with the Church they are technically members of, why don't they just leave?
Genuinely trying to do the right thing but stumbling, or being genuinely misinformed, is one thing, but such deliberate disregard for ones own faith really drives me up the wall.

Catholics are sometimes advised not to go to confession more than twice a week unless an exceptional case arises; this however is not because it would be going to confession too much but because it is thought to indicate scrupulosity.

[Salus Maior]

Hey guys, do any of you go to any particular teaching or verse when you're feeling a bit crushed from the weight of the world's problems?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Hey guys, do any of you go to any particular teaching or verse when you're feeling a bit crushed from the weight of the world's problems?

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Hey guys, do any of you go to any particular teaching or verse when you're feeling a bit crushed from the weight of the world's problems?

Luke 22:42 - "Father, if thou wilt, remove this chalice from me: but yet not my will, but thine be done."

[Diopolis]

Hey guys, do any of you go to any particular teaching or verse when you're feeling a bit crushed from the weight of the world's problems?

It's not really a bible verse or even a specific teaching, but there is a saying one of the assistant priests at my parish uses a lot "God shows his love for us with crosses, not cash". It reminds me that our suffering is sanctification for us; this life is not supposed to be easy, and if it is not, it is because God loves us enough to let us suffer now instead of having to do it in purgatory.

[Cill Airne]

In Anglo-Catholic Parishes, Confession is done typically before Eucharist every Sunday and offered periodically throughout the week. In most other Anglican parishes it's only done by request. The "all may, none must, some should" actually isn't unique to Anglo-Catholicism, it's an Anglican sentiment. You'll find Anglicans of all traditions (Low, Broad, High Church) who will say the same.

So is the Anglo-Catholic perspective mean that the Sacrament of Reconciliation of a Penitent and the Penitential Rite during the service of the Holy Eucharist (I'm speaking as in the Episcopal Church) have the same effects from absolution?

The General Confession or the Penitential Order is said during the Eucharist Service, and the priest pronounces absolution at the end of it as he (or she) does during the Sacrament of Reconciliation. This absolution is the same (albeit the wording may be different following the General Confession than during the Sacrament of Reconciliation). Because of the General Confession, and absolution, this leads to the Anglican position that "all may, none must, some should" for the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against thee in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved thee with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we earnestly repent. For the sake of thy son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in thy will, and walk in thy ways, to the glory of thy Name. Amen.

[Angleter]

Why not?

As for our Confessional prayers, we say the "Act of Contrition" (This is probably not the correct name. I'm translating from Arabic, which is the language I use.) while the Priest grants absolution in silence. I'm pretty sure that's for the Roman Rite as well, since I've confessed abroad as well.

Act of contrition is the generally used name. Contrititional act might be a better translation from the official Latin, but act of contrition is in common use. It's generally the third prayer Roman rite schoolchildren are required to memorize after only the Our Father and Hail Mary- these days, it's often the last of them as well.

I remember learning it in (Catholic) primary school, but forgetting it entirely during my semi-lapsed secondary school years. There also seem to be slightly (and entirely) different versions of it wherever you go.

[Cill Airne]

Hey guys, do any of you go to any particular teaching or verse when you're feeling a bit crushed from the weight of the world's problems?

I typically look to De Profundis, Psalm 130, when I feel down/crushed. It's always provided inspiration and hope for me and serves as a gentle reminder that we ought to place our trust in God and look towards him earnestly.

I. Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O Lord.
II. Lord, hear my voice:
let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.
III. If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities,
O Lord, who shall stand?
IV. But there is forgiveness with thee,
that thou mayest be feared.
V. I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait,
and in his word do I hope.
VI. My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning:
I say, more than they that watch for the morning.
VII. Let Israel hope in the Lord:
for with the Lord there is mercy,
and with him is plenteous redemption.
VIII. And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

[Athartha]

Act of contrition is the generally used name. Contrititional act might be a better translation from the official Latin, but act of contrition is in common use. It's generally the third prayer Roman rite schoolchildren are required to memorize after only the Our Father and Hail Mary- these days, it's often the last of them as well.

I remember learning it in (Catholic) primary school, but forgetting it entirely during my semi-lapsed secondary school years. There also seem to be slightly (and entirely) different versions of it wherever you go.

I was taught this version growing up:

O my God, I am heartily sorry
for having offended Thee
and I detest my sins
above every other evil
because they displease Thee, my God,
Who, in Thy infinite wisdom,
art so deserving of all my love
and I firmly resolve
with the help of Thy grace
never more to offend Thee
and to amend my life.
Amen

We had to have it memorised in primary school. To my knowledge, they don't teach this version anywhere anymore. But it is true, the American version is different from the Canadian version, for example. Many different translations have arisen.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Act of contrition is the generally used name. Contrititional act might be a better translation from the official Latin, but act of contrition is in common use. It's generally the third prayer Roman rite schoolchildren are required to memorize after only the Our Father and Hail Mary- these days, it's often the last of them as well.

I remember learning it in (Catholic) primary school, but forgetting it entirely during my semi-lapsed secondary school years. There also seem to be slightly (and entirely) different versions of it wherever you go.

My God,
I am sorry for my sins with all my heart.
In choosing to do wrong and failing to do good,
I have sinned against you
whom I should love above all things.
I firmly intend, with your help,
to do penance, to sin no more,
and to avoid whatever leads me to sin.
Our Saviour Jesus Christ suffered and died for us.
In His Name, my God, have mercy.
Amen.