The Christian Discussion Thread VI

[Czechanada]

We were talking about God demanding worship, not why people worship.

The false equivalency here is that parents are also human, while God is, well, God. The charge of Narcissism is aimed at humans who think they're more important than or superior to all others, which is generally false as they too are humans with no higher intrinsic value.

This doesn't apply to God. The "demand" of Worship to God is centered in Gratitude. Worshiping God is an expression of Gratitude for Creating the Universe, Saving the world, etc etc.

But why does God require gratitude?

[Grand Calvert]

I know some who think even doin' that much is excessive. Catholics are often uncatechized and questionably observant.

My (Catholic) friends are genuinely surprised when they learn I go to confession.
I don't want to imagine the look on their faces when they learn I go more than the once per year which they deem to be too much.

I have a friend who once admitted to being a cafeteria Catholic but gets mad at anyone who criticizes the Pope or Catholic doctrine.

[Grand Calvert]

The false equivalency here is that parents are also human, while God is, well, God. The charge of Narcissism is aimed at humans who think they're more important than or superior to all others, which is generally false as they too are humans with no higher intrinsic value.

This doesn't apply to God. The "demand" of Worship to God is centered in Gratitude. Worshiping God is an expression of Gratitude for Creating the Universe, Saving the world, etc etc.

But why does God require gratitude?

Why wouldn't He? He created the world. That's pretty praiseworthy in my book.

[The Alma Mater]

But why does God require gratitude?

Why wouldn't He? He created the world. That's pretty praiseworthy in my book.

BUt you are not God. The question is why God requires it.

[Diopolis]

I don't think we needed the Pope to tell us that.

Well, Now you know How Protestant feel when they a heard a News about the Pope and Roman Catholic Church

Umm, Calvert is a protestant.

[Conscentia]

But why does God require gratitude?

Why wouldn't He? He created the world. That's pretty praiseworthy in my book.

Seems narcissistic and impolite to ask for praise. People will voluntarily give praise if they feel it's deserved.

The world is full of disease and danger. It's a death trap. If God were accountable to safety regulations, his designs would never have been authorised for construction. Shoddy work.

[Ithqington]

Well, Now you know How Protestant feel when they a heard a News about the Pope and Roman Catholic Church

Umm, Calvert is a protestant.

Oh, Okay then..

[Cill Airne]

I know some who think even doin' that much is excessive. Catholics are often uncatechized and questionably observant.

My (Catholic) friends are genuinely surprised when they learn I go to confession.
I don't want to imagine the look on their faces when they learn I go more than the once per year which they deem to be too much.

On that note, Anglicans/Episcopalians do have a Sacrament of Reconciliation, found within the Book of Common Prayer. It is, however, face-to-face, there is no screen. When I requested it last year, my (then) priest told me I was the first person to request it since he became rector over two years prior. I think it is a shame more Anglicans do not take advantage of Confession.

[Belhorizon]

My (Catholic) friends are genuinely surprised when they learn I go to confession.
I don't want to imagine the look on their faces when they learn I go more than the once per year which they deem to be too much.

On that note, Anglicans/Episcopalians do have a Sacrament of Reconciliation, found within the Book of Common Prayer. It is, however, face-to-face, there is no screen. When I requested it last year, my (then) priest told me I was the first person to request it since he became rector over two years prior. I think it is a shame more Anglicans do not take advantage of Confession.

I undergo confession face to face. There's a kneeler available, but I sit on the chair.
The screen isn't mandatory. But I'd rather have a screen if I'm not familiar with the priest.

Do Anglicans treat Absolution the same way Catholics do, or is it different?

[Cill Airne]

On that note, Anglicans/Episcopalians do have a Sacrament of Reconciliation, found within the Book of Common Prayer. It is, however, face-to-face, there is no screen. When I requested it last year, my (then) priest told me I was the first person to request it since he became rector over two years prior. I think it is a shame more Anglicans do not take advantage of Confession.

I undergo confession face to face. There's a kneeler available, but I sit on the chair.
The screen isn't mandatory. But I'd rather have a screen if I'm not familiar with the priest.

Do Anglicans treat Absolution the same way Catholics do or is it different?

Typically when we (Anglicans) think of Confession, we think of the General Confession¹ during Eucharist. Aural confession is done only by request (eg. schedule an appointment with your rector), and at the end of the aural confession the priest also pronounces absolution. Unlike Roman Catholicism, penitential acts are not required for/after confession but are done out of piety to help the healing process.

¹ The General Confession is said during Eucharist, after which the Priest pronounces absolution.

[Belhorizon]

I undergo confession face to face. There's a kneeler available, but I sit on the chair.
The screen isn't mandatory. But I'd rather have a screen if I'm not familiar with the priest.

Do Anglicans treat Absolution the same way Catholics do or is it different?

Typically when we (Anglicans) think of Confession, we think of the General Confession¹ during Eucharist. Aural confession is done only by request (eg. schedule an appointment with your rector), and at the end of the aural confession the priest also pronounces absolution. Unlike Roman Catholicism, penitential acts are not required for/after confession but are done out of piety to help the healing process.

¹ The General Confession is said during Eucharist, after which the Priest pronounces absolution.

Huh. Doesn't sound too far away from the Catholic Church.
Penitential acts are almost always prayer, in my experience.

I recently heard that the Vatican appointed the first Bishop for an Anglican Uniate. Hopefully the trend continues towards more and more towards unification.

[Cill Airne]

Typically when we (Anglicans) think of Confession, we think of the General Confession¹ during Eucharist. Aural confession is done only by request (eg. schedule an appointment with your rector), and at the end of the aural confession the priest also pronounces absolution. Unlike Roman Catholicism, penitential acts are not required for/after confession but are done out of piety to help the healing process.

¹ The General Confession is said during Eucharist, after which the Priest pronounces absolution.

Huh. Doesn't sound too far away from the Catholic Church.
Penitential acts are almost always prayer, in my experience.

I recently heard that the Vatican appointed the first Bishop for an Anglican Uniate. Hopefully the trend continues towards more and more towards unification.

I'm currently looking at my 1979 Book of Common Prayer (Episcopal Church of the US). Rite I is probably somewhat familiar to Roman Catholics out of it.

Penitent: Bless me, for I have sinned.
Priest: The Lord be in your heart and upon your lips that you may truly and humbly confess your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Penitent: I confess to Almighty God, to his Church, and to you, that I have sinned by my own fault in thought, word, and deed, in things done and left undone; especially _____________. For these and all other sins which I cannot now remember, I am truly sorry. I pray God to have mercy on me. I firmly intend amendment of life, and I humbly beg forgiveness of God and his Church, and ask you for counsel, direction, and absolution.
(Here the priest may offer counsel, direction and comfort)
Priest: Our Lord Jesus Christ, who has left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him, of his great mercy forgive you all your offenses; and by his authority committed to me, I absolve you from all your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
or
Our Lord Jesus Christ, who offered himself to be sacrificed for us to the Father, and who conferred power on his Church to forgive sins, absolve you through my ministry by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and restore you in the perfect peace of the Church. Amen.
Priest: The Lord has put away all your sins.
Penitent: Thanks be to God.
Priest: Go (or abide) in peace, and pray for me, a sinner.

As for an Anglican Uniate. I unfortunately do not support it at this time. I would love to see unification, but I could not support unification at this current time.

[Belhorizon]

Huh. Doesn't sound too far away from the Catholic Church.
Penitential acts are almost always prayer, in my experience.

I recently heard that the Vatican appointed the first Bishop for an Anglican Uniate. Hopefully the trend continues towards more and more towards unification.

I'm currently looking at my 1979 Book of Common Prayer (Episcopal Church of the US). Rite I is probably somewhat familiar to Roman Catholics out of it.

Penitent: Bless me, for I have sinned.
Priest: The Lord be in your heart and upon your lips that you may truly and humbly confess your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Penitent: I confess to Almighty God, to his Church, and to you, that I have sinned by my own fault in thought, word, and deed, in things done and left undone; especially _____________. For these and all other sins which I cannot now remember, I am truly sorry. I pray God to have mercy on me. I firmly intend amendment of life, and I humbly beg forgiveness of God and his Church, and ask you for counsel, direction, and absolution.
(Here the priest may offer counsel, direction and comfort)
Priest: Our Lord Jesus Christ, who has left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him, of his great mercy forgive you all your offenses; and by his authority committed to me, I absolve you from all your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
or
Our Lord Jesus Christ, who offered himself to be sacrificed for us to the Father, and who conferred power on his Church to forgive sins, absolve you through my ministry by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and restore you in the perfect peace of the Church. Amen.
Priest: The Lord has put away all your sins.
Penitent: Thanks be to God.
Priest: Go (or abide) in peace, and pray for me, a sinner.

As for an Anglican Uniate. I unfortunately do not support it at this time. I would love to see unification, but I could not support unification at this current time.

Why not?

As for our Confessional prayers, we say the "Act of Contrition" (This is probably not the correct name. I'm translating from Arabic, which is the language I use.) while the Priest grants absolution in silence. I'm pretty sure that's for the Roman Rite as well, since I've confessed abroad as well.

[Cill Airne]

I'm currently looking at my 1979 Book of Common Prayer (Episcopal Church of the US). Rite I is probably somewhat familiar to Roman Catholics out of it.

Penitent: Bless me, for I have sinned.
Priest: The Lord be in your heart and upon your lips that you may truly and humbly confess your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Penitent: I confess to Almighty God, to his Church, and to you, that I have sinned by my own fault in thought, word, and deed, in things done and left undone; especially _____________. For these and all other sins which I cannot now remember, I am truly sorry. I pray God to have mercy on me. I firmly intend amendment of life, and I humbly beg forgiveness of God and his Church, and ask you for counsel, direction, and absolution.
(Here the priest may offer counsel, direction and comfort)
Priest: Our Lord Jesus Christ, who has left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him, of his great mercy forgive you all your offenses; and by his authority committed to me, I absolve you from all your sins: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
or
Our Lord Jesus Christ, who offered himself to be sacrificed for us to the Father, and who conferred power on his Church to forgive sins, absolve you through my ministry by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and restore you in the perfect peace of the Church. Amen.
Priest: The Lord has put away all your sins.
Penitent: Thanks be to God.
Priest: Go (or abide) in peace, and pray for me, a sinner.

As for an Anglican Uniate. I unfortunately do not support it at this time. I would love to see unification, but I could not support unification at this current time.

Why not?

As for our Confessional prayers, we say the "Act of Contrition" (This is probably not the correct name. I'm translating from Arabic, which is the language I use.) while the Priest grants absolution in silence. I'm pretty sure that's for the Roman Rite as well since I've confessed abroad as well.

I have some disagreeances with the Roman Catholic Church; particularly in regards to de fide teachings and the 4 Papal teachings of primacy, spiritual supremacy, temporal supremacy, and infallibility. I, unfortunately, cannot agree to unification until these teachings are amended, or unless the "Anglican Rite" are given an exception.

[Tutukerala]

My (Catholic) friends are genuinely surprised when they learn I go to confession.
I don't want to imagine the look on their faces when they learn I go more than the once per year which they deem to be too much.

On that note, Anglicans/Episcopalians do have a Sacrament of Reconciliation, found within the Book of Common Prayer. It is, however, face-to-face, there is no screen. When I requested it last year, my (then) priest told me I was the first person to request it since he became rector over two years prior. I think it is a shame more Anglicans do not take advantage of Confession.

My too, I personally love the Practice. Telling my sins to my Pastor is very helpful and beatiful

[Living Stones]

I know some who think even doin' that much is excessive. Catholics are often uncatechized and questionably observant.

My (Catholic) friends are genuinely surprised when they learn I go to confession.
I don't want to imagine the look on their faces when they learn I go more than the once per year which they deem to be too much.

Too much?
They think you go to confession Too much?
I literally cannot understand why so many millions of people identify as Catholic (or Protestant, or Orthodox, or what have you) without even trying to actually do what their church requires. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Catholics requires to go to confession at least once a year?)
What an insult to martyrs! Some people are literally willing to die for their faith, & others apparently couldn't care less.
If they have so little interest in or disagree so much with the Church they are technically members of, why don't they just leave?
Genuinely trying to do the right thing but stumbling, or being genuinely misinformed, is one thing, but such deliberate disregard for ones own faith really drives me up the wall.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

Agreed. Undecorated all white churches are an insult to God.

...Do you really mean that?

It's hard to read sarcasm on the internet, sometimes.

Yes I meant it, although I was exaggerating a bit

Dull undecorated Churches are not worthy of God's greatness.

[Luminesa]

I know some who think even doin' that much is excessive. Catholics are often uncatechized and questionably observant.

My (Catholic) friends are genuinely surprised when they learn I go to confession.
I don't want to imagine the look on their faces when they learn I go more than the once per year which they deem to be too much.

They shouldn't be, because you're supposed to do that, as a Catholic. Tell them that as Catholics, if they think they don't need to go to God and ask forgiveness for their sins, they've got it all wrong and they need to re-evaluate their spiritual lives.

Meanwhile, don't worry. You're doing the right thing, bud.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

You could call me the opposite of an iconoclast

All churches should be magnificent and beautiful, unless such a thing is impossible given available resources.

[Luminesa]

Why not?

As for our Confessional prayers, we say the "Act of Contrition" (This is probably not the correct name. I'm translating from Arabic, which is the language I use.) while the Priest grants absolution in silence. I'm pretty sure that's for the Roman Rite as well since I've confessed abroad as well.

I have some disagreeances with the Roman Catholic Church; particularly in regards to de fide teachings and the 4 Papal teachings of primacy, spiritual supremacy, temporal supremacy, and infallibility. I, unfortunately, cannot agree to unification until these teachings are amended, or unless the "Anglican Rite" are given an exception.

Have you discussed this with a pastor or a spiritual director? You know, because you're becoming Catholic on Easter, right? I think.

[Belhorizon]

My (Catholic) friends are genuinely surprised when they learn I go to confession.
I don't want to imagine the look on their faces when they learn I go more than the once per year which they deem to be too much.

Too much?
They think you go to confession Too much?
I literally cannot understand why so many millions of people identify as Catholic (or Protestant, or Orthodox, or what have you) without even trying to actually do what their church requires. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Catholics requires to go to confession at least once a year?)
What an insult to martyrs! Some people are literally willing to die for their faith, & others apparently couldn't care less.
If they have so little interest in or disagree so much with the Church they are technically members of, why don't they just leave?
Genuinely trying to do the right thing but stumbling, or being genuinely misinformed, is one thing, but such deliberate disregard for ones own faith really drives me up the wall.

Yes, we must go to confession once a year; at the least.
I find myself going once every two-three weeks.

The level of spiritual apathy is skyrocketing across Christianity, across all sects. Sad, really.
There's a quote I really appreciated when it showed up in my inbox,

“People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; we drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; we drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated.”
- D.A. Carson

[Czechanada]

You could call me the opposite of an iconoclast

All churches should be magnificent and beautiful, unless such a thing is impossible given available resources.

That's what I said: an-aniconist.

[Cill Airne]

I have some disagreeances with the Roman Catholic Church; particularly in regards to de fide teachings and the 4 Papal teachings of primacy, spiritual supremacy, temporal supremacy, and infallibility. I, unfortunately, cannot agree to unification until these teachings are amended, or unless the "Anglican Rite" are given an exception.

Have you discussed this with a pastor or a spiritual director? You know, because you're becoming Catholic on Easter, right? I think.

Oh, goodness no. I'm being confirmed in the Church of England at Easter. Anglicans also receive the Creed before confirmation. Whilst I admire the Roman Catholic Church a great deal, I don't think my views would quite be accepted there.

[Belhorizon]

Have you discussed this with a pastor or a spiritual director? You know, because you're becoming Catholic on Easter, right? I think.

Oh, goodness no. I'm being confirmed in the Church of England at Easter. Anglicans also receive the Creed before confirmation. Whilst I admire the Roman Catholic Church a great deal, I don't think my views would quite be accepted there.

Oh, we have Heretic Cardinals. One extra heretic wouldn't hurt.

I'm kidding, for those with their hands on the pitchforks. Not about the heretic cardinals. Those are real, fortunately for us.

[Grand Calvert]

...Do you really mean that?

It's hard to read sarcasm on the internet, sometimes.

Yes I meant it, although I was exaggerating a bit

Dull undecorated Churches are not worthy of God's greatness.

So unless a church decorates itself the way you want it, its ungodly?