The Christian Discussion Thread VI

[Gim]

Okay. Well understood. Thank you for your polite answer.

I think the blame should be on rather towards the modern Islamic extremist leader. I won't go further, since this is not the thread to talk about ISIS.

I blame sin.

Sin for pretty much every suffering in this world.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Now, do we blame Abraham for sleeping with a concubine, and then having her bear a child named, "Ishmael", who is the speculated ancestor of the Islamic prophet?

While Abraham sleeping with Hagar was irresponsible, that doesn't make him responsible for Islam.

Is seeking a child with the approval of your wife really irresponsible?

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

I blame sin.

Sin for pretty much every suffering in this world.

I blame the human capacity for mistake.

Sin probably doesn't exist outside of certain theological areas anyway (saying this as a Jew).

[The Alexanderians]

Sin for pretty much every suffering in this world.

I blame the human capacity for mistake.

Sin probably doesn't exist outside of certain theological areas anyway (saying this as a Jew).

In the theological sense maybe, but in conversation it can be synonymous with crimes.

[Diopolis]

While Abraham sleeping with Hagar was irresponsible, that doesn't make him responsible for Islam.

Is seeking a child with the approval of your wife really irresponsible?

God told him he would have a child with Sarah. He acted mistrustfully towards God- which is at the very least spiritually irresponsible.

[Luminesa]

Why are we blaming Abraham?

But Abraham is our leader in faith!

[Gim]

Why are we blaming Abraham?

But Abraham is our leader in faith!

However, he was sinful as well.

[Luminesa]

But Abraham is our leader in faith!

However, he was sinful as well.

We all are sinful.

[Grand Calvert]

While Abraham sleeping with Hagar was irresponsible, that doesn't make him responsible for Islam.

Is seeking a child with the approval of your wife really irresponsible?

It's adultery

[Gim]

Is seeking a child with the approval of your wife really irresponsible?

It's adultery

Well, we cannot rule that out, but the problem is pretty much disobedience and a lack of faith.

[Nordengrund]

I am reading through 2 Peter and in the second chapter is talking about false prophets. It says the will secretly introduce heresies, even denying the One who "bought" them.

I was raised to believe you cannot lose your salvation, yet the verse is saying the Master bought the false prophets. I think that "bought" means that God has claimed them as his own, yet they will be destroyed. Does this verse refute the concept that salvation cannot be lost?

This question is mainly targeted at my Reformed friends.

[Grand Calvert]

I am reading through 2 Peter and in the second chapter is talking about false prophets. It says the will secretly introduce heresies, even denying the One who "bought" them.

I was raised to believe you cannot lose your salvation, yet the verse is saying the Master bought the false prophets. I think that "bought" means that God has claimed them as his own, yet they will be destroyed. Does this verse refute the concept that salvation cannot be lost?

This question is mainly targeted at my Reformed friends.

The term "bought" doesn't have to be about salvation in specific: it can be talking about their deliverance from pagan customs. Peter uses it again in the same way later on. It's talking about an apparent change without any true inner change. There's a whole page on it here:

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/doe ... -atonement

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Is seeking a child with the approval of your wife really irresponsible?

It's adultery

Trying to claim concubinage is adultery is rather a stretch. I mean at most Diopolis is correct they didn't trust God, but given how old Abraham wife's was it is understandable why they were questioning of this.

[Gim]

It's adultery

Trying to claim concubinage is adultery is rather a stretch. I mean at most Diopolis is correct they didn't trust God, but given how old Abraham wife's was it is understandable why they were questioning of this.

Yes, I can agree with that. After all, faith is not easy to have.

[Constantinopolis]

It's adultery

Trying to claim concubinage is adultery is rather a stretch.

Well, I'm not sure about the Old Law of Judaism, but in the New Covenant of Christianity, concubinage is definitely adultery. A wife has no authority to give her husband "permission" to have sex with someone else. And, likewise, a husband has no authority to give his wife "permission" to have sex with someone else.

Just like Christ could not give His Church "permission" to worship other gods.

[The Alexanderians]

Trying to claim concubinage is adultery is rather a stretch.

Well, I'm not sure about the Old Law of Judaism, but in the New Covenant of Christianity, concubinage is definitely adultery. A wife has no authority to give her husband "permission" to have sex with someone else. And, likewise, a husband has no authority to give his wife "permission" to have sex with someone else.

Just like Christ could not give His Church "permission" to worship other gods.

So open relationships

[Constantinopolis]

Well, I'm not sure about the Old Law of Judaism, but in the New Covenant of Christianity, concubinage is definitely adultery. A wife has no authority to give her husband "permission" to have sex with someone else. And, likewise, a husband has no authority to give his wife "permission" to have sex with someone else.

Just like Christ could not give His Church "permission" to worship other gods.

So open relationships

What about them? They involve adultery too...

[Luminesa]

So open relationships

What about them? They involve adultery too...

Marriages are not meant to be "Hall Pass". :/

[The Alexanderians]

So open relationships

What about them? They involve adultery too...

Im saying that its the same thing

[Menassa]

Trying to claim concubinage is adultery is rather a stretch.

Well, I'm not sure about the Old Law of Judaism, but in the New Covenant of Christianity, concubinage is definitely adultery. A wife has no authority to give her husband "permission" to have sex with someone else. And, likewise, a husband has no authority to give his wife "permission" to have sex with someone else.

Just like Christ could not give His Church "permission" to worship other gods.

Concubinage was permitted, but wasn't usually the norm. And, it was often the case that those produced from a concubine turned out to be less than upstanding characters.

[Diopolis]

It's adultery

Trying to claim concubinage is adultery is rather a stretch. I mean at most Diopolis is correct they didn't trust God, but given how old Abraham wife's was it is understandable why they were questioning of this.

Yes, but we're talking about a man who was willing to sacrifice his son on God's command- my point is, he clearly knew better than to doubt God.

[Menassa]

Trying to claim concubinage is adultery is rather a stretch. I mean at most Diopolis is correct they didn't trust God, but given how old Abraham wife's was it is understandable why they were questioning of this.

Yes, but we're talking about a man who was willing to sacrifice his son on God's command- my point is, he clearly knew better than to doubt God.

And God told Abraham he would father many sons.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

King David has 13 wives and concubines and was still counted as righteous.

[Arslaniya]

Any Assyrians (or other MENA Christians) here?

[Menassa]

King David has 13 wives and concubines and was still counted as righteous.

Solomon had 300 wives and 700 concubines and was still considered righteous.