NATION

PASSWORD

Are Facts really Opinions?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Contamenesia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8064
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Contamenesia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:18 am

Sun Wukong wrote:
Contamenesia wrote:

So that is your opinion then?

That's a fact.


So this indeed in your opinion a fact?

In my opinion this will continue to loop forever. In my opinion, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with whether my opinion is right or wrong, but rather the exploration of whether or not there is indeed a right or wrong at all. of course, again, this is just my opinion.
Last edited by Contamenesia on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

My Rps:

The Truths of Existence:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=349767&start=2550

User avatar
Sun Wukong
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9798
Founded: Oct 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Sun Wukong » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:20 am

Contamenesia wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:That's a fact.


So this indeed in your opinion a fact?

In my opinion this will continue to loop forever. In myopinion, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with whether my opoinion is right or wrong, but rather the exploration of whether or not there is indeed a right or wrong at all. of course, again, this is just my opinion.

Since you seem to be stuck on a loop of narcissistic pseudo-intellectual rubbish, and all fact is merely opinion, I encourage you to always exit whatever building you're in through the highest available window.

After all, you don't know it's not the better option.
Last edited by Sun Wukong on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Great Sage, Equal of Heaven.

User avatar
Sinophia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Sep 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Sinophia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:21 am

It is also logically impossible for the statement 'All Fact is Opinion' to be true.

1. All fact is opinion gives us an absolute statement about the nature of truth.
2. Facts are intended to be absolute statements about what is true, such as 'This toast is hot to me' or 'This cat is biting me'
3. Therefore this statement, making an absolute statement intended to be true of all facts being opinions, is inconsistent - by dint of making a statement that makes all fact opinion, the fact of the statement is negated and it ceases to be absolute - because it is a statement of fact and all fact must, by definition, be opinion.
4. Therefore no circumstance exists where facts and opinions are synonymous using the wording of the statement.

I've only been doing philosophy for a half-term so criticism is welcome...

User avatar
The Grim Reaper
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10526
Founded: Oct 08, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Grim Reaper » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:23 am

Sinophia wrote:It is also logically impossible for the statement 'All Fact is Opinion' to be true.

1. All fact is opinion gives us an absolute statement about the nature of truth.
2. Facts are intended to be absolute statements about what is true, such as 'This toast is hot to me' or 'This cat is biting me'
3. Therefore this statement, making an absolute statement intended to be true of all facts being opinions, is inconsistent - by dint of making a statement that makes all fact opinion, the fact of the statement is negated and it ceases to be absolute - because it is a statement of fact and all fact must, by definition, be opinion.
4. Therefore no circumstance exists where facts and opinions are synonymous using the wording of the statement.

I've only been doing philosophy for a half-term so criticism is welcome...


This is a good way of discussing /why/ OP is pseudo-intellectual rubbish, but it doesn't really pose a resolution to the question in the opening post - i.e. definitions of 'fact' and 'opinion'.

That being said, the question in the opening post was tangential to the OP trying to spam up their post count with what seems to be the same post over and over again.
If I can't play bass, I don't want to be part of your revolution.
Melbourne, Australia

A & Ω

Is "not a blood diamond" a high enough bar for a wedding ring? Artificial gemstones are better-looking, more ethical, and made out of PURE SCIENCE™.

User avatar
Geanna
Minister
 
Posts: 2177
Founded: Jul 09, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Geanna » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:24 am

Contamenesia wrote:Are all facts actually only opinions that we accept to be true? Are Facts simply Opinions that we can convince others of via opiniated proof? If so, then is there any actual such thing as Proof? Where is the line between Fact and Opinion? Are all Truths lies or are all lies Truth? What if there are no truths and no lies? If the only reality you can count as real is your own, why are others in it?

With this thread i invite you to think outside of the box, and simply question and discuss these things. Here we question all things around us and ourselves. You may begin.


This is dependent on the situation, really. Mathematically speaking, 1+1=2 is a fact. Whereas, having x event happen, with y amount of people, and asked to give the facts of x event, will result in different stories due to personal perception.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~


"We dance on the lines of our destruction and continuation, to waltz and achieve the happiness of our existence, and to be the laughter in a world of silence."

User avatar
Contamenesia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8064
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Contamenesia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:27 am

Sinophia wrote:It is also logically impossible for the statement 'All Fact is Opinion' to be true.

1. All fact is opinion gives us an absolute statement about the nature of truth.
2. Facts are intended to be absolute statements about what is true, such as 'This toast is hot to me' or 'This cat is biting me'
3. Therefore this statement, making an absolute statement intended to be true of all facts being opinions, is inconsistent - by dint of making a statement that makes all fact opinion, the fact of the statement is negated and it ceases to be absolute - because it is a statement of fact and all fact must, by definition, be opinion.
4. Therefore no circumstance exists where facts and opinions are synonymous using the wording of the statement.

I've only been doing philosophy for a half-term so criticism is welcome...



But then again, in my opinion, Logic is from a belief of fact. in my opinion, i do not say that you are wrong, but rather is there right ot wrong at all.

Sun Wukong wrote:
Contamenesia wrote:
So this indeed in your opinion a fact?

In my opinion this will continue to loop forever. In myopinion, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with whether my opoinion is right or wrong, but rather the exploration of whether or not there is indeed a right or wrong at all. of course, again, this is just my opinion.

Since you seem to be stuck on a loop of narcissistic pseudo-intellectual rubbish, and all fact is merely opinion, I encourage you to always exit whatever building you're in through the highest available window.

After all, you don't know it's not the better option.


You are, in my opinion, welcome to your own opinion. in my opinion you still seem to think this a question of what is right or wrong, when that is not, in my opinion, what is being questioned.
Last edited by Contamenesia on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

My Rps:

The Truths of Existence:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=349767&start=2550

User avatar
Kar-Esseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2367
Founded: Oct 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kar-Esseria » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:28 am

This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen.

Really.
#FeelTheBern
Don't call them ISIS/ISIL/IS, call them Daesh. They hate that.

User avatar
Sinophia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Sep 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Sinophia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:31 am

Language is ambiguous. Seeking an absolute definition of any concept is probably hopeless. Who could ever absolutely and precisely define love? Who would ever want to?

User avatar
Contamenesia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8064
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Contamenesia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:34 am

Kar-Esseria wrote:This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen.

Really.


you are welcome to your opinion, at least in my opinion. ^^
Last edited by Contamenesia on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

My Rps:

The Truths of Existence:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=349767&start=2550

User avatar
Sun Wukong
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9798
Founded: Oct 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Sun Wukong » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:35 am

Kar-Esseria wrote:This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen.

Really.

If it'll cheer you up, here's a nine minute beat poem on why this is dumb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0W7Jbc_Vhw
Great Sage, Equal of Heaven.

User avatar
Sinophia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Sep 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Sinophia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:38 am

You cannot be wrong about whether an argument is logically persuasive or not. Attack my argument, rather than the foundations of logic, or do nothing at all. If my argument is still consistent and reaches a sound conclusion, you cannot be right. You can't just throw up your arms, say 'But Logic derives from a belief in truth!' and congratulate yourself. Logic is a millennia-old method of testing the consistency of our universe, and I doubt one NS poster could undermine it. If you cannot show logic to show your opinion - even if it is logically absurd - to be true, then what you are saying cannot be the case, philosophically speaking. You would, to use the french term, be talking out of your arse.

Taurus excreta cerebrum vincit.

User avatar
Contamenesia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8064
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Contamenesia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:40 am

Sinophia wrote:You cannot be wrong about whether an argument is logically persuasive or not. Attack my argument, rather than the foundations of logic, or do nothing at all. If my argument is still consistent and reaches a sound conclusion, you cannot be right. You can't just throw up your arms, say 'But Logic derives from a belief in truth!' and congratulate yourself. Logic is a millennia-old method of testing the consistency of our universe, and I doubt one NS poster could undermine it. If you cannot show logic to show your opinion - even if it is logically absurd - to be true, then what you are saying cannot be the case, philosophically speaking. You would, to use the french term, be talking out of your arse.

Taurus excreta cerebrum vincit.


What a great opinion. but what do say to the Mad?
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

My Rps:

The Truths of Existence:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=349767&start=2550

User avatar
Kar-Esseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2367
Founded: Oct 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Kar-Esseria » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:41 am

Contamenesia wrote:
Kar-Esseria wrote:This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen.

Really.


you are welcome to your opinion, at least in my opinion. ^^


Even if it is an opinion, this is still a dumb thread.

You're trying to argue two opposites are the same thing. You might as well be arguing if France is really England.
#FeelTheBern
Don't call them ISIS/ISIL/IS, call them Daesh. They hate that.

User avatar
Stuffed stuffing
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 64
Founded: May 24, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Stuffed stuffing » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:46 am

It's your opinion that facts are opinions. It's everyone elses' opinions that facts are facts, and opinions are opinions.

End of story. Can we go back to causing drama with ill-conceived, provocative threads about current issues now?
Just make a contract with me, and become a magical girl~

User avatar
Sinophia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Sep 27, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Sinophia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:46 am

I say to the mad that by their own admission their impression of 'reality' is wrong. Whilst insanity is of course subjective and it is of course a condition of degrees and many stripes, I would feel confident that a man who believes the universe to be made of condensed piss is probably wrong when the majority of scientists - using fact and logic to establish truths, you know the 'Scientific Method'? - have a different opinion. Madness is not a philosophical defence unless you are a sort of 'Ho ho ho I read some Nietzche, look at how thorough my understanding of philosophy is, it's not like the continental philosophers are insufficiently rigorous and should be read as novelists or anything'. And to be fair Nietzche was a lad, had some interesting ideas. It's just philosophy ain't just about Nihilism. Nihilism is philosophy for emos.

User avatar
Contamenesia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8064
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Contamenesia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:47 am

Kar-Esseria wrote:
Contamenesia wrote:
you are welcome to your opinion, at least in my opinion. ^^


Even if it is an opinion, this is still a dumb thread.

You're trying to argue two opposites are the same thing. You might as well be arguing if France is really England.


Intersting opinion. Perhaps France really is England. What defines them as different? what defines them as the same? What defines what is and what is not? What do we allow to define these things? Does right or wrong really exist?
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

My Rps:

The Truths of Existence:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=349767&start=2550

User avatar
Divitaen
Senator
 
Posts: 4619
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Divitaen » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:50 am

I see, this is one of those subjectivity, post-modernist kind of threads. To be fair I've always personally believed that all facts in the world are merely opinions re-packaged and re-organised. So in a way, yeah, facts don't really exist objectively.
Hillary Clinton 2016! Stronger Together!
EU Referendum: Vote Leave = Project Hate #VoteRemain!
Economic Right/Left: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.15
Foreign Policy Non-interventionist/Neo-conservative: -10.00
Cultural Liberal/Conservative: -10.00
Social Democrat:
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic - 38%
Secular/Fundamentalist - 50%
Visionary/Reactionary - 56%
Anarchistic/Authoritarian - 24%
Communistic/Capitalistic - 58%
Pacifist/Militarist - 39%
Ecological/Anthropocentric - 55%

User avatar
Contamenesia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8064
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Contamenesia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:52 am

Sinophia wrote:I say to the mad that by their own admission their impression of 'reality' is wrong. Whilst insanity is of course subjective and it is of course a condition of degrees and many stripes, I would feel confident that a man who believes the universe to be made of condensed piss is probably wrong when the majority of scientists - using fact and logic to establish truths, you know the 'Scientific Method'? - have a different opinion. Madness is not a philosophical defence unless you are a sort of 'Ho ho ho I read some Nietzche, look at how thorough my understanding of philosophy is, it's not like the continental philosophers are insufficiently rigorous and should be read as novelists or anything'. And to be fair Nietzche was a lad, had some interesting ideas. It's just philosophy ain't just about Nihilism. Nihilism is philosophy for emos.


So in your opinion, if people share opinion, it must be fact? Interesting opinion. So in your opinion, the the amount of agreeing opinions alters the validity of opinions? Interesting in my opinion.
Last edited by Contamenesia on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

My Rps:

The Truths of Existence:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=349767&start=2550

User avatar
The Hook Islands
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: May 19, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Hook Islands » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:55 am

Opinions are like arseholes; everyone has one and they all stink.
Everyone thinks their dog is the best, and nobody is wrong.
♥ Married to The Albali Republic

Harper is rude, but I promise I'm very friendly in reality! ^^

User avatar
Divitaen
Senator
 
Posts: 4619
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Divitaen » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:56 am

Sinophia wrote:I say to the mad that by their own admission their impression of 'reality' is wrong. Whilst insanity is of course subjective and it is of course a condition of degrees and many stripes, I would feel confident that a man who believes the universe to be made of condensed piss is probably wrong when the majority of scientists - using fact and logic to establish truths, you know the 'Scientific Method'? - have a different opinion. Madness is not a philosophical defence unless you are a sort of 'Ho ho ho I read some Nietzche, look at how thorough my understanding of philosophy is, it's not like the continental philosophers are insufficiently rigorous and should be read as novelists or anything'. And to be fair Nietzche was a lad, had some interesting ideas. It's just philosophy ain't just about Nihilism. Nihilism is philosophy for emos.


This is ridiculous. Just because subjectivity feels circular doesn't mean it can't be true. It just means some people are brave enough to admit they can't really know anything because life is just too damn complicated.
Hillary Clinton 2016! Stronger Together!
EU Referendum: Vote Leave = Project Hate #VoteRemain!
Economic Right/Left: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.15
Foreign Policy Non-interventionist/Neo-conservative: -10.00
Cultural Liberal/Conservative: -10.00
Social Democrat:
Cosmopolitan/Nationalistic - 38%
Secular/Fundamentalist - 50%
Visionary/Reactionary - 56%
Anarchistic/Authoritarian - 24%
Communistic/Capitalistic - 58%
Pacifist/Militarist - 39%
Ecological/Anthropocentric - 55%

User avatar
Wisconsin9
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35753
Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:05 am

Divitaen wrote:I see, this is one of those subjectivity, post-modernist kind of threads.

No, it's masturbatory, pseudo-intellectual nonsense, created so that the OP can have a tautological one-man circle jerk by dismissing all other arguments as, "Hrm drm well there's no real facts so that's just an opinion."

And you know what, that may be my opinion, but I'd bet money it's also a fact.
~~~~~~~~
We are currently 33% through the Trump administration.
................................................................................................................................................................................................................
................................................................................................................................................................................................................

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:07 am

Contamenesia wrote:Are all facts actually only opinions that we accept to be true? Are Facts simply Opinions that we can convince others of via opiniated proof? If so, then is there any actual such thing as Proof? Where is the line between Fact and Opinion? Are all Truths lies or are all lies Truth? What if there are no truths and no lies? If the only reality you can count as real is your own, why are others in it?

With this thread i invite you to think outside of the box, and simply question and discuss these things. Here we question all things around us and ourselves. This thread is only for fun, just to get you thinking. You may begin.

No.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
Contamenesia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8064
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Contamenesia » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:08 am

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Divitaen wrote:I see, this is one of those subjectivity, post-modernist kind of threads.

No, it's masturbatory, pseudo-intellectual nonsense, created so that the OP can have a tautological one-man circle jerk by dismissing all other arguments as, "Hrm drm well there's no real facts so that's just an opinion."

And you know what, that may be my opinion, but I'd bet money it's also a fact.



In my opinion, you are very offensive to women like me, but regardless, you are welcome to your opinion.
If you are looking for playable races to add to your RP, click on the link below to look at playable races and variations that i and other people have come up with! We are adding more to list everday, and feel free to add you own race/species ideas: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=440015

My Rps:

The Truths of Existence:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=349767&start=2550

User avatar
L Ron Cupboard
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9054
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby L Ron Cupboard » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:12 am

All the people born three hundred years ago are dead. Anyone have a different opinion?
A leopard in every home, you know it makes sense.

User avatar
Wisconsin9
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35753
Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:14 am

Contamenesia wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:No, it's masturbatory, pseudo-intellectual nonsense, created so that the OP can have a tautological one-man circle jerk by dismissing all other arguments as, "Hrm drm well there's no real facts so that's just an opinion."

And you know what, that may be my opinion, but I'd bet money it's also a fact.



In my opinion, you are very offensive to women like me, but regardless, you are welcome to your opinion.

And now I'm apparently sexist. The prosecution rests, Your Honor.
~~~~~~~~
We are currently 33% through the Trump administration.
................................................................................................................................................................................................................
................................................................................................................................................................................................................

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Halberd Savannah, Skelleftella, Spirit of Hope, Verkhoyanska

Advertisement

Remove ads