Does eugenics work?

[USS Monitor]

Holy crap op is literally Mengele. No Eugenics do not work since you can never remove harmful recessive genes from a population by breeding.

You can with genetic screening, but...

Stop with these ridiculous nazi threads.

Gotta agree with you on this. OP needs to lay off on the plans to undermine human rights.

[Daburuetchi]

3. Mandatory IQ tests at age 18, with the 10% lowest IQ individuals being banned from having children (or face severe penalties), and financial compensation for the top 10% IQ to have children. You could also later retake the IQ test.

4. As well as banning the very poor from having children (reasons outlined in previous thread).

Two parents of higher IQ will not necessarily produce offspring of equal or higher intelligence. In fact, according to the concept of regression toward the mean, parents whose IQ is at either extreme are more likely to produce offspring with IQ closer to the mean. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritabil ... nd_caveats We found this out a while ago. Stop reading Charles Davenport for goodness sake

Banning poor people from having children? What kind of world do you live in where high income is determined solely on the basis of intelligence? There are people with PH.ds who live in abject poverty. Are we going to sterilize them?

[Daburuetchi]

You can with genetic screening, but...

You have no idea how people will react to having no recessive genes. Take Sickle-Cell anemia. A terrible disease but a person who is heterozygous for it is much more fit. It's still a very stupid idea even if screening makes it so you can pick out only homozygous

[USS Monitor]

Being heterozygous for it is only useful if you live somewhere that has malaria, and you don't have access to antimalarial drugs. "Much more fit" is an exaggeration, especially if the country running the eugenics program is not in Africa.

[The Conez Imperium]

2. Mandatory abortion for anyone having a baby with mental retardation, fetal alcohol syndrome, down syndrome, similar conditions, or other severe health conditions. There would be mandatory screening for this.

Nature/social normality already takes care of this. Extremely few people will marry people with severe mental retardation or down syndrome. Even fewer will have their babies.

[Daburuetchi]

Being heterozygous for it is only useful if you live somewhere that has malaria, and you don't have access to antimalarial drugs. "Much more fit" is an exaggeration, especially if the country running the eugenics program is not in Africa.

For the most part, the heterozygous genotype in New York City confers no distinct advantage or disadvantage in say New York City and if two parents who are heterozygous for it they only have a 25% chance of passing it down so it's not like these people need to be urgently sterilized.

Yeah sure genetic screening can indeed weed out lot of detrimental heterogeneous genes but OPs proposal is just too far.

Take down syndrome for instance,only 1% of all cases of Down syndrome have a hereditary component http://www.ndss.org/Down-Syndrome/What- ... STTZw.dpuf. What good would sterilizing these people yield?

[Korouse]

it's not like there's been major developments in genetically engineering human sperm.

oh, wait.

[Daburuetchi]

Again eugenics is inherently a bourgeois concept. It emerged from the middle class notion that a healthier human race would save people money.This idea that poverty is somehow heritable is ridiculous. A demand constrained economy literally cannot function without poor people. This is fascist nonsense. Genetic screening should be used as a tool solely to eliminate the most extreme conditions not as a means of enforcing a genetic autocracy

Also how the hell is going to work. Almost all of us a genetically predisposed to one type of disease or another. Are we going start Star a Star Trekesq Eugenics War against all non-engineered humans?

[Daburuetchi]

"An important goal of genetic counseling is to reduce the number of deleterious genes in the population."

I didn't realize being poor was a deleterious gene. Maybe we should reduce the number of gays and black too. Please

[Korouse]

Again eugenics is inherently a bourgeois concept. It emerged from the middle class notion that a healthier human race would save people money.This idea that poverty is somehow heritable is ridiculous. A demand constrained economy literally cannot function without poor people. This is fascist nonsense. Genetic screening should be used as a tool solely to eliminate the most extreme conditions not as a means of enforcing a genetic autocracy

Also how the hell is going to work. Almost all of us a genetically predisposed to one type of disease or another. Are we going start Star a Star Trekesq Eugenics War against all non-engineered humans?

But stronger poor people to work in the factories!

/s

Anyway, I'm interested to know how the middle class as a whole is somewhat responsible for eugenics.

[Daburuetchi]

Again eugenics is inherently a bourgeois concept. It emerged from the middle class notion that a healthier human race would save people money.This idea that poverty is somehow heritable is ridiculous. A demand constrained economy literally cannot function without poor people. This is fascist nonsense. Genetic screening should be used as a tool solely to eliminate the most extreme conditions not as a means of enforcing a genetic autocracy

Also how the hell is going to work. Almost all of us a genetically predisposed to one type of disease or another. Are we going start Star a Star Trekesq Eugenics War against all non-engineered humans?

But stronger poor people to work in the factories!

/s

Anyway, I'm interested to know how the middle class as a whole is somewhat responsible for eugenics.

When eugenics emerged at the turn of the 20th century it was driven by the middle class notion that the government could reduce cost of spending on social welfare and medicine by creating eugenics health policies. America's social upheaval at the turn of the century made it a breeding ground for eugenics since people wary of the immigrants and poor thought they could get rid of these undesirables. In fact the Nazis were greatly inspired by the eugenics policies implemented by America.

I would also like to add that Charles Davenport one of the most influential eugenicist received funding principally from bourgeois donors like the Carnegie foundation

[Russo-Byzantine Empire]

Human rights are a beautiful thing. They insure that we won't be treated as animals by are fellow men. The absolutely most important human right, though, is the right to be weak. Not only is eugenics cruel, it also denies humanity that right. Why do we need eugenics at this point? There is no species out there that can possibly challenge us. We have beaten evolution. Now is the time to bask in our triumph, not create new challenges for ourselves.

[Daburuetchi]

Human rights are a beautiful thing. They insure that we won't be treated as animals by are fellow men. The absolutely most important human right, though, is the right to be weak. Not only is eugenics cruel, it also denies humanity that right. Why do we need eugenics at this point? There is no species out there that can possibly challenge us. We have beaten evolution. Now is the time to bask in our triumph, not create new challenges for ourselves.

We actually haven't beaten evolution according to the hardy-weinberg equation and while very controlled eugenic programs could help remove terrible diseases and should be pursued i agree with you regarding human rights

[Terminus Alpha]

Human rights are a beautiful thing. They insure that we won't be treated as animals by are fellow men. The absolutely most important human right, though, is the right to be weak. Not only is eugenics cruel, it also denies humanity that right. Why do we need eugenics at this point? There is no species out there that can possibly challenge us. We have beaten evolution. Now is the time to bask in our triumph, not create new challenges for ourselves.

We actually haven't beaten evolution according to the hardy-weinberg equation and while very controlled eugenic programs could help remove terrible diseases and should be pursued i agree with you regarding human rights

Any sort of eugenics program devalues human lives. Why try and "breed" bad traits out of humanity when we can just apply our brains and slowly help people with these disease live as normal of lives as we can while progressing towards effective treatment. It works now, why won't it continue to work?

[Winzig]

Any sort of eugenics program devalues human lives. Why try and "breed" bad traits out of humanity when we can just apply our brains and slowly help people with these disease live as normal of lives as we can while progressing towards effective treatment. It works now, why won't it continue to work?

Because prevention is a superior technique to treatment.

[Daburuetchi]

We actually haven't beaten evolution according to the hardy-weinberg equation and while very controlled eugenic programs could help remove terrible diseases and should be pursued i agree with you regarding human rights

Any sort of eugenics program devalues human lives. Why try and "breed" bad traits out of humanity when we can just apply our brains and slowly help people with these disease live as normal of lives as we can while progressing towards effective treatment. It works now, why won't it continue to work?

Because gene therapy is much more effective and could help diseased people live completely normal human lives. This usage would be different than Ops who wants a immoral Genetic Autocracy. Controlled voluntary gene therapy could help millions

[Terminus Alpha]

Any sort of eugenics program devalues human lives. Why try and "breed" bad traits out of humanity when we can just apply our brains and slowly help people with these disease live as normal of lives as we can while progressing towards effective treatment. It works now, why won't it continue to work?

Because gene therapy is much more effective and could help diseased people live completely normal human lives. This usage would be different than Ops who wants a immoral Genetic Autocracy. Controlled voluntary gene therapy could help millions

I'm fine with gene therapy. Thought you were going further than that.

[USS Monitor]

Being heterozygous for it is only useful if you live somewhere that has malaria, and you don't have access to antimalarial drugs. "Much more fit" is an exaggeration, especially if the country running the eugenics program is not in Africa.

For the most part, the heterozygous genotype in New York City confers no distinct advantage or disadvantage in say New York City and if two parents who are heterozygous for it they only have a 25% chance of passing it down so it's not like these people need to be urgently sterilized.

Yeah sure genetic screening can indeed weed out lot of detrimental heterogeneous genes but OPs proposal is just too far.

Take down syndrome for instance,only 1% of all cases of Down syndrome have a hereditary component http://www.ndss.org/Down-Syndrome/What- ... STTZw.dpuf. What good would sterilizing these people yield?

Yeah, I don't support what the OP is suggesting.

[Daburuetchi]

For the most part, the heterozygous genotype in New York City confers no distinct advantage or disadvantage in say New York City and if two parents who are heterozygous for it they only have a 25% chance of passing it down so it's not like these people need to be urgently sterilized.

Yeah sure genetic screening can indeed weed out lot of detrimental heterogeneous genes but OPs proposal is just too far.

Take down syndrome for instance,only 1% of all cases of Down syndrome have a hereditary component http://www.ndss.org/Down-Syndrome/What- ... STTZw.dpuf. What good would sterilizing these people yield?

Yeah, I don't support what the OP is suggesting.

Dat feel when a technology that could be used for good is used badly

[USS Monitor]

Again eugenics is inherently a bourgeois concept. It emerged from the middle class notion that a healthier human race would save people money.This idea that poverty is somehow heritable is ridiculous. A demand constrained economy literally cannot function without poor people. This is fascist nonsense. Genetic screening should be used as a tool solely to eliminate the most extreme conditions not as a means of enforcing a genetic autocracy

Also how the hell is going to work. Almost all of us a genetically predisposed to one type of disease or another. Are we going start Star a Star Trekesq Eugenics War against all non-engineered humans?

You wouldn't have to screen everything at once. You could start by screening out the most serious conditions, then when those were removed from the gene pool, you could start working on less severe ones. That way you don't crash the population by trying to screen out too much at once.

Of course, it only solves the problem of how it COULD be done from a technical point of view, but that doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. There are still some human rights issues.

[Daburuetchi]

Again eugenics is inherently a bourgeois concept. It emerged from the middle class notion that a healthier human race would save people money.This idea that poverty is somehow heritable is ridiculous. A demand constrained economy literally cannot function without poor people. This is fascist nonsense. Genetic screening should be used as a tool solely to eliminate the most extreme conditions not as a means of enforcing a genetic autocracy

Also how the hell is going to work. Almost all of us a genetically predisposed to one type of disease or another. Are we going start Star a Star Trekesq Eugenics War against all non-engineered humans?

You wouldn't have to screen everything at once. You could start by screening out the most serious conditions, then when those were removed from the gene pool, you could start working on less severe ones. That way you don't crash the population by trying to screen out too much at once.

Of course, it only solves the problem of how it COULD be done from a technical point of view, but that doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. There are still some human rights issues.

That makes sense but the inevitable conclusion of such a policy would be such an obsession with genetic purity that you would basically start a eugenics arms race and a whole caste of untouchables. Not very savory to think about. Not to mention the widespread corruption this would be bound to cause.

[Olthar]

Maybe an argument could have been made for it before, but like so many things it was permanently ruined by Nazis.

[Daburuetchi]

Maybe an argument could have been made for it before, but like so many things it was permanently ruined by Nazis.

Damned Nazis they ruined Nazism

[USS Monitor]

Maybe an argument could have been made for it before, but like so many things it was permanently ruined by Nazis.

Damned Nazis they ruined Nazism

Otto Strasser certainly thought so.

[Freemopia]

lol lol lol lol lol lol. no. they already tired that, it only works for powerful evil racists that r like Nazis. your proposal is horrible. intelligence is not determined by genes.