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Atheists why do you all hate Christians?

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Gift-of-god
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Postby Gift-of-god » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:51 am

Tokos wrote:
I'm very interested in learning how you turned faith. Was it because of Pascal's Wager? Blind fear? A hallucination that happened to come along at the right time? Failing to use reasoned logic?


Let me guess… anything you don't like is a "hallucination"?


I would imagione that (s)he is assuming that personal revelations or visions are hallucinations or delusions.

This is a common method of explaining how these events come about from a secular perspective. However, psychologists do not view such events as delusional, nor is there evidence of these episodes being hallucinations.

But don't take my word for it:

http://www.spiritualcompetency.com/dsm4 ... 3_3.asp#R3

Mystical Experiences and Psychopathology
Surveys assessing the incidence of mystical experience in the general population indicate that it has been rising. during the past few decades. Now more than half the population polled answered yes to the Gallup Poll question:

Have you ever been aware of, or influenced by, a presence or a power — whether you call it God or not — which is different from your everyday self?

1973: 27%
1986: 42%
1990: 54%
(Gallup [1], [2])

Given that most of the adult population report such experiences, they are clearly normal rather than pathological phenomena. A recent survey found that most clinicians do not currently view mystical experiences as pathological [3]. To some degree this reflects a change, partly attributable to Abraham Maslow, Ph.D., who was a founder of humanistic psychology in the 1960s, and then went on to found transpersonal psychology. He described the mystical experience as an aspect of everyday psychological functioning:

It is very likely, indeed almost certain, that these older reports [of mystical experiences], phrased in terms of supernatural revelation, were, in fact, perfectly natural, human peak experiences of the kind that can easily be examined today. (Abraham Maslow Religions, Values, and Peak Experiences p. 20)

...

In addition, studies have found that people reporting mystical experiences scored lower on psychopathology scales and higher on measures of psychological well-being than controls. (see The Psychology of Religion: An Empirical Approach by Ralph W. Hood, Editor).


I would even suggest that those people who categorise such events as delusional or hallucinatory do so without looking at the evidence. I do not share their faith and am somewhat more skeptical.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:17 am

Gift-of-god wrote:
Tokos wrote:
I'm very interested in learning how you turned faith. Was it because of Pascal's Wager? Blind fear? A hallucination that happened to come along at the right time? Failing to use reasoned logic?


Let me guess… anything you don't like is a "hallucination"?


I would imagione that (s)he is assuming that personal revelations or visions are hallucinations or delusions.

No offense intended*, but that is my assumption.

*And I actually mean that, its just that the whole concept of a god just seems silly to me that until I experience a personal revelation myself...
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
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Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
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Anarchiztz
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Postby Anarchiztz » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:28 am

Not all of them do. I don't hate christians, I hate christianity.

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Tokos
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Postby Tokos » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:38 am

Anarchiztz wrote:Not all of them do. I don't hate christians, I hate christianity.


This is never accepted if people say "I hate homosexuality not homosexuals". At least here it's not…
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:41 am

Tokos wrote:
Anarchiztz wrote:Not all of them do. I don't hate christians, I hate christianity.


This is never accepted if people say "I hate homosexuality not homosexuals". At least here it's not…


It might be, if one can give a good reason for it. But in 99,9% of the cases people are unable to go beyond "it is unnatural !" - which is silly.
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Gift-of-god
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Postby Gift-of-god » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:45 am

Dyakovo wrote:No offense intended*, but that is my assumption.

*And I actually mean that, its just that the whole concept of a god just seems silly to me that until I experience a personal revelation myself...


Well, the assumption that it is something other than supernatural forces is in some ways a logical one. Science assumes this very thing, i.e. that there is a natural (as opposed to supernatural) cause for the phenomenon being studied. This is a necessary assumption to make if you then want to devise a testable hypothesis. So, getting back to personal revelation, those scientists who have studied it must have done so from that assumption so that they could test their theories.

Now, this gives us a lot of information as to what is and isn't going on when people have these episodes. As science progresses we will know more about what is happening. We can't really know if god did it, because that's not a testable claim, but we can know if it's caused by some sort of testable chemical imbalance or other natural cause.
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I've a shell that's indestructible and endless turtle stamina.
I defend the little kids and I level downtown Tokyo
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Tokos
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Postby Tokos » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:45 am

Ditto "It's designed by men in pink robes to enslave your mind". Or "viral memeplex", a popular one as of late and signifying nothing.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:09 pm

Gift-of-god wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:No offense intended*, but that is my assumption.

*And I actually mean that, its just that the whole concept of a god just seems silly to me that until I experience a personal revelation myself...


Well, the assumption that it is something other than supernatural forces is in some ways a logical one. Science assumes this very thing, i.e. that there is a natural (as opposed to supernatural) cause for the phenomenon being studied. This is a necessary assumption to make if you then want to devise a testable hypothesis. So, getting back to personal revelation, those scientists who have studied it must have done so from that assumption so that they could test their theories.

Now, this gives us a lot of information as to what is and isn't going on when people have these episodes. As science progresses we will know more about what is happening. We can't really know if god did it, because that's not a testable claim, but we can know if it's caused by some sort of testable chemical imbalance or other natural cause.

Of course even if it is discovered to be caused by a testable chemical imbalance, it won't disprove it being a genuine revelation...
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
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Anarchiztz
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Postby Anarchiztz » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:34 pm

Tokos wrote:
Anarchiztz wrote:Not all of them do. I don't hate christians, I hate christianity.


This is never accepted if people say "I hate homosexuality not homosexuals". At least here it's not…

But, I do like homosexuals. A lot of xians justify their hatred of gays by quoting a 2000 year old book.

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Spetsnazastan
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Postby Spetsnazastan » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:49 pm

And honestly, if the bible is true, and there is a god, would it be the kind of thing you'd want to pray to?
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:44 pm

Spetsnazastan wrote:And honestly, if the bible is true, and there is a god, would it be the kind of thing you'd want to pray to?

Why the assumption that the bible must be true for the christian god to exist?
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:47 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Spetsnazastan wrote:And honestly, if the bible is true, and there is a god, would it be the kind of thing you'd want to pray to?

Why the assumption that the bible must be true for the christian god to exist?


You know, I never really thought about it that way. Hmmm, food for thought and ammo for debate. Thank you.

Edit: Applying it to Satanism as well. Now I just need a name for this religious synthesis. :twisted:
Last edited by Big Jim P on Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:49 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:
Spetsnazastan wrote:And honestly, if the bible is true, and there is a god, would it be the kind of thing you'd want to pray to?

Why the assumption that the bible must be true for the christian god to exist?


You know, I never really thought about it that way. Hmmm, food for thought and ammo for debate. Thank you.

Well, it's pretty clear that if the christian god exists exactly as depicted in the bible he suffers from Dissociative identity disorder, so it would be much more appealing I think if he the bible was a bit inaccurate about him...
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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The Imperial Navy
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Postby The Imperial Navy » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:50 pm

I love Christians. Especially those cute dresses they put Catholic schoolgirls in...

*Gets sent to prison and put on the sex-offenders register*

Damn.

But seriously, i'm agnostic and don't care eitherway. Just don't try to force your beliefs on me, and I will love you. :)

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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:53 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:
Spetsnazastan wrote:And honestly, if the bible is true, and there is a god, would it be the kind of thing you'd want to pray to?

Why the assumption that the bible must be true for the christian god to exist?


You know, I never really thought about it that way. Hmmm, food for thought and ammo for debate. Thank you.

Well, it's pretty clear that if the christian god exists exactly as depicted in the bible he suffers from Dissociative identity disorder, so it would be much more appealing I think if he the bible was a bit inaccurate about him...


True, considering the human record for accurate observations.

The Imperial Navy wrote:I love Christians. Especially those cute dresses they put Catholic schoolgirls in...

*Gets sent to prison and put on the sex-offenders register*

Damn.

But seriously, i'm agnostic and don't care eitherway. Just don't try to force your beliefs on me, and I will love you. :)


Meh, Give me Nuns in hooker boots any day. :twisted:
Hail Satan!
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:53 pm

The Imperial Navy wrote:I love Christians. Especially those cute dresses they put Catholic schoolgirls in...

*Gets sent to prison and put on the sex-offenders register*

Damn.

But seriously, i'm agnostic and don't care eitherway. Just don't try to force your beliefs on me, and I will love you. :)

*tries to force beliefs on TIN*
*realizes don't really have any*
*prepares to be loved by TIN*
be gentle
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

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The Imperial Navy
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Postby The Imperial Navy » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:53 pm

Big Jim P wrote:Meh, Give me Nuns in hooker boots any day. :twisted:


OOH! Thanks for Reminding me. 8)

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The Imperial Navy
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Postby The Imperial Navy » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:54 pm

Dyakovo wrote:*tries to force beliefs on TIN*
*realizes don't really have any*
*prepares to be loved by TIN*
be gentle


Don't worry baby, i'll be kind...

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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:56 pm

The Imperial Navy wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:Meh, Give me Nuns in hooker boots any day. :twisted:


OOH! Thanks for Reminding me. 8)


Just a preference I picked up years ago. Right here on NS in fact. 8)
Hail Satan!
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MoogleGenocide
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Postby MoogleGenocide » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:57 pm

Because neither of you worship the same god. Although, as far as I can tell, all dogmatic en-mass belief systems are backwards as hell.

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Miraas
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Postby Miraas » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:02 pm

I don't hate Christians. I just am often annoyed by them. Then again, most people often annoy me...

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Tirovia
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Postby Tirovia » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:00 am

Risottia wrote:
Tirovia wrote:The Roman meaning of the word 'religion' was 'obligation'. If you carried out your obligations to a god, in terms of prayer and ritual and sacrifice then you were religious. In those days, you could believe in the gods without being religious - although it seems unwise.


To be more accurate, in Latin religio means the rituals and public acts of belief, while pietas (see Virgil, Aeneidos, "pius Aeneas") means the more private part of belief and of virtue.

Not sure quite how that's 'more accurate' than what I said, to be honest, since I was referring to religio and said so; but I'll concede it's more information.

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Tirovia
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Postby Tirovia » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:14 am

Yeah, I'm reading through a good few pages after a gap, so I'm a little behind. But I noticed this:

F1-Insanity wrote:
EvilDarkMagicians wrote:
F1-Insanity wrote:No good has EVER come off any of these intolerant and supremacist ideologies.

Wrong.


please enlighten me then... :eyebrow:


... and then a load of poor sods tried to take him up on it.

People, look at what he said. I'll highlight it again:

F1-Insanity wrote:No good has EVER come off any of these intolerant and supremacist ideologies.


This is one of two things: it's either an extremist viewpoint or it's a bait. Someone who posts a remark like that either genuinely believes it, in which case there's as little point trying to change their mind as with any blinkered religious fanatic; or they're trolling, in which case they'll play the game for as long as it takes them to get bored - and knowing some trolls, that could be a very long time indeed.

Truth is, no-one with a balanced perspective grounded in the real world makes this kind of generalised, blanket statement. It's made either for ideological effect or for the personal entertainment of a poster with nothing much else to do.

All that said, it's worth pointing out as well that "Wrong.", as used above, is the single most pointless post anyone can possibly make on a forum. While it does convey a tone of high-handed pomposity[*], it also makes it quite clear that the poster doesn't have any real argument to make - even if they do. If you have an argument, make it. There's no point wasting everyone's time posting for the sake of having posted.

Now, having slated both these contributors, who else can I piss off? :lol:

---
[* Yes, yes - just like I do. Which is why I know what I'm talking about, okay?]

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Kagetora
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Postby Kagetora » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:22 am

Courtsland wrote:Other than the fact that they believe in God. What are other reasons why you hate them? Utimatly you are falling into what the bible says in John 15:18-19. 18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

You all may not believe it but, by your hatred, and bashing of my God you are actually fitting into what was written in the word.

So tell me why do you hate christians?


Most of us don't. Most of us don't even hate Christianity. We just don't believe in it. I for one take pleasure in bashing your religion though because it's fun seeing some people scramble.

Heck, here's an article you'd probably find fascinating.

http://www.cracked.com/article_15759_10 ... ee-on.html
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Tirovia
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Postby Tirovia » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:25 am

Obviously apologies if anyone's pointed this out already - there's still a page or two I haven't got to yet. But I think it's an important point:

F1-Insanity wrote:How exactly is pointing out that religion in general (and christianity and islam in particular) has left stacks of bodies behind (all in the name of their favorite made-up sky-person) 'making up reasons'?

I don't need to make up anything. The facts are clear. Just read the books those two religions push as their manifestos. The general message in those religions is 'if you do not do as we do you are inferior and shall be tortured in a place called hell forever and ever'. Books that gloat about killing scores of folks don' get no respect from me.

The thing is, your original point wasn't that evil things have been done in the name of religion. I don't think any reasonable person, religious or otherwise, would argue that - even those religions you single out for particular condemnation. But that wasn't what you originally said. You said:

No good has EVER come off any of these intolerant and supremacist ideologies.


Now that's a very different submission, and it's that that suggests - at least at first glance - that you hate religion enough to offer a distorted perspective on it.

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