12yo Texan Girl Told to Write that God is Fake!

[Neutraligon]

As a Christian, I'm appalled by this. That teacher should have been fired for the reason you stated, among others.

As an atheist, I'm appalled by this.

Maybe you should actually read what really happened.

[Ifreann]

So a complete overhaul of current classes then ? Same as with Greek ?

Not really, your just changing calling it a myth. Myth is a pejorative to a believer. there are any followers of Jupiter out there, your not making a claim as to the veracity of the stories.

Same with christianity. You can teach what christianity believes, without making the claim "jesus is lord".

Arguing that certain words shouldn't be used in schools in order to avoid hurting the feelings of students? I think this makes you a Tumblr SJW.

[Ethel mermania]

Not really, your just changing calling it a myth. Myth is a pejorative to a believer. there are any followers of Jupiter out there, your not making a claim as to the veracity of the stories.

Same with christianity. You can teach what christianity believes, without making the claim "jesus is lord".

There are indeed those who still believe in the Roman gods. Just as there are those who still believe in the ancient Egyptian gods (revival religions). Yet no one complains when we talk about the mythology of the Greek Gods. Again would you have an issue if for that assignment they were talking about the Greek or Roman Gods instead?

Me? Yes I would, for the reasons you mention. It's not the public schools place to make claims about anyone's god.

[Neutraligon]

There are indeed those who still believe in the Roman gods. Just as there are those who still believe in the ancient Egyptian gods (revival religions). Yet no one complains when we talk about the mythology of the Greek Gods. Again would you have an issue if for that assignment they were talking about the Greek or Roman Gods instead?

Me? Yes I would, for the reasons you mention. It's not the public schools place to make claims about anyone's god.

They are not claiming anything about anyone's god. Myth is not a pejorative. Opinion is not a pejorative. Fact is not a pejorative.

[Alyakia]

fuck it

[The Alma Mater]

There are indeed those who still believe in the Roman gods. Just as there are those who still believe in the ancient Egyptian gods (revival religions). Yet no one complains when we talk about the mythology of the Greek Gods. Again would you have an issue if for that assignment they were talking about the Greek or Roman Gods instead?

Me? Yes I would, for the reasons you mention. It's not the public schools place to make claims about anyone's god.

Are schools allowed to call creatures like unicorns, elves, faeries, leprechauns etc. myths ? Do note that there are people who genuinely believe in those

[The New Sea Territory]

Dear Atheists, Christians, and Agnostics about to argue below:

It doesn't matter whether or not God is real. This is not about God. This is about a teacher forcing their religious views upon impressionable children. They should be fired, and never allowed to teach again.

It actually does matter. Christianity is a self-contradicting religion that contradicts the values a school ought to teach children: freedom, critical thinking, individualism.

Before the ignorant people come to me saying "Oh, but Atheism isn't a religion!". Yes it is. It requires just as much faith as Christianity. You can't prove God doesn't exist, but you have faith that he does not. So just accept that as fact, because it doesn't make any real difference.

Incorrect. It is, by definition, the lack of faith in a deity. You are the stereotypical burden-of-proof-flipping Christian apologist.

Now, on the subject of God's existence, I shall begin with the wonderful myth of Macro-evolution. No, it's just wrong. Not a fact. You can't possibly claim something as fact when your measurements give a year predating humanity (to our knowledge anyway), because we have no proof that such a year existed. To then claim that the measurement proves such a year exists, is massively ignorant. The measuring method could be entirely wrong, which wouldn't be surprising. Science is knowledge, and knowledge requires facts. Therefore, by definition alone, Macro-evolution is NOT science.

Ideas like this are exactly why Christianity is dangerous.

Anyway, I don't feel like dissecting more of your illogical rambling.

[Ethel mermania]

Not really, your just changing calling it a myth. Myth is a pejorative to a believer. there are any followers of Jupiter out there, your not making a claim as to the veracity of the stories.

Same with christianity. You can teach what christianity believes, without making the claim "jesus is lord".

Arguing that certain words shouldn't be used in schools in order to avoid hurting the feelings of students? I think this makes you a Tumblr SJW.

first time I have been called that. It's not about hurt feelings though, it's about the government school taking any postion on religion.

[Ragnarheim]

I couldn't give two shites whether or not it was about God existing or not. The problem lies in the fact a teacher (and I am one) has allegedly press-ganged their own beliefs on a pupil. I've got a Jehovah's Witness in my class and I think his parents are fucking mental, but I wouldn't ever force him to alter his beliefs simply because I don't agree with his.

[Hurdegaryp]

I feel like your OP started out with a story and then went downhill into a massive attack on atheism in general.

Pretty impressive that you managed to go down at all considering you started by sourcing RT.
E: Damn Ganos that ninja

The OP also managed to fit the word 'sheeple' in his bloggish rant, therefore showing his true colours. Not the first time I've seen somebody claim that atheism is a religion, by the way. Those inclined to the divine tend to use that statement in order to drag atheists down to their level, even though the majority of atheists most certainly do not behave like the people on a certain subreddit.

[Ethel mermania]

Me? Yes I would, for the reasons you mention. It's not the public schools place to make claims about anyone's god.

They are not claiming anything about anyone's god. Myth is not a pejorative. Opinion is not a pejorative. Fact is not a pejorative.

Calling someone's religious belief a myth is a pejorative. Your telling a zeus follower, Zeus did not impregnate lydia by turning into a Swan, Does cast aspersions on their religious belief.

Edit: fat fingers

[Sun Wukong]

Arguing that certain words shouldn't be used in schools in order to avoid hurting the feelings of students? I think this makes you a Tumblr SJW.

first time I have been called that. It's not about hurt feelings though, it's about the government school taking any postion on religion.

Stating a fact is not taking a position. By your logic even stating that a religion exists would be taking a position on religion.

[Sun Wukong]

I couldn't give two shites whether or not it was about God existing or not. The problem lies in the fact a teacher (and I am one) has allegedly press-ganged their own beliefs on a pupil. I've got a Jehovah's Witness in my class and I think his parents are fucking mental, but I wouldn't ever force him to alter his beliefs simply because I don't agree with his.

Of course, that's not what happened.

But I guess it's too much to ask that NSG not just take the OP at face value.

[Dyakovo]

Arguing that certain words shouldn't be used in schools in order to avoid hurting the feelings of students? I think this makes you a Tumblr SJW.

first time I have been called that. It's not about hurt feelings though, it's about the government school taking any postion on religion.

Which is not something that was done. You not understanding that "myth" does not mean "false" does not change this.

[Sun Wukong]

They are not claiming anything about anyone's god. Myth is not a pejorative. Opinion is not a pejorative. Fact is not a pejorative.

Calling someone's religious belief a myth is a pejorative. Your telling a zeus follower. Zeus did not impregnate lydia by turning into. Swan. Does cast aspersions on their religious belief.

Except you're not.

[Hurdegaryp]

I couldn't give two shites whether or not it was about God existing or not. The problem lies in the fact a teacher (and I am one) has allegedly press-ganged their own beliefs on a pupil. I've got a Jehovah's Witness in my class and I think his parents are fucking mental, but I wouldn't ever force him to alter his beliefs simply because I don't agree with his.

Of course, that's not what happened.

But I guess it's too much to ask that NSG not just take the OP at face value.

You've been here before, so you know how it works.

[Ifreann]

So then it was a fact that Pluto existed, even though no one had any evidence to

None of which means that it was not a fact that Pluto existed.


A fact depends on being factual. This is fundamental to the concept of objective reality.

Objective reality and statements of fact are two different things.

I didn't say they were the same thing. I don't know how you could think I did.

If it can be proved that Pluto is real then it is real.

But in order for Pluto to be proved real Pluto must be real. So Pluto was real before it was proven. And Pluto was real before it could be proved to be real. Because objective reality doesn't change based on what we know or do not know.

However, you could very well tell me that 50 years ago in September 25th of that year your dad was eating Nutella and that could be a fact in and of itself, even if I, or you, or your father have no way to verify the claim, based on your claim that a fact doesn't depend on verifiability but instead any claim can go uncontested as a fact as long as we do not have any way to verify it.

Obviously no reasonable person will accept something as a fact without evidence. That doesn't make evidence necessary for it to be a fact.

[Leetmerica]

I am not very religious. Obviously. I mean just look at how I run my nation. That said, this country was founded on religious freedom. Any true American will recognize that what this teacher did was wrong.

In my personal opinion, it might actually be worse than a teacher teaching that God is real. Teaching against something like that, something sacred, is wrong. And to a child no less.

Religion has no place in a classroom, regardless of whether the teacher is pro religion or anti religion.

[USS Monitor]

That's the thing -- it has to be legally done or defacto enforced. Of course you can oppose me politically , that is your right. But if it became constitutional law, not much could be done to resist it.

My problem with that particular clause is that it has been used in the past to attack public prayers and other Christian traditions. Even the motto on our money. Even the full lyrics of the star spangled banner mention the Lord. Don't forget that we are endowed by Our Creator.
The very foundation of our country is based upon God.

"Our Creator" could mean the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The God referred to on the money could be Islamic God. It's a huge stretch to get from a couple of vague references to a higher power to "the US is a Christian nation" or "being Christian is an integral part of being an American."

It's been sort of like the Gay "marriage" thing. The constitution wasnt written that way 200 years ago to conceivably give gays the "right" to marry or women the "right" to murder their babies

You can't just come in after 200 years and reinterpret the constitution to fit your modern ideas of these rights. Otherwise we should amend the constitution to provide clarity to the original meanings therein. Unless you can argue that the founding fathers anticipated that their words could legalize Gay marriage, abortion or ban them from praying at public meetings.

This may surprise you, but all the founding fathers prayed, invoked God and George Washington punished homosexuals in his army.

It may surprise you to know that George Washington never saw the 14th amendment, and there was no constitutional grounds for legalizing gay marriage until after the Civil War. Amending the constitution is not about clarifying its original meaning. It is a matter of changing the meaning to suit modern times. If you were to add an amendment making Christianity a national religion, that's not restoring its original intent. It would be making a fundamental change to what the US is. Right now, with the constitution as it is now, and without substantial public support to amend it and add a national religion, your assertions that America is a Christian nation are wrong.

The people that wrote the 14th amendment were almost certainly not thinking about homosexuality unless they were gay themselves, but it was written with the intent of laying down a broad ethical principle that could be applied to many different issues. The other postwar amendments were targeted to specific issues (slavery and voting rights). There was no reason the 14th couldn't have been similarly specific in outlining the rights it was meant to protect. The 15th amendment only deals with discrimination on the basis of race, not any other basis. There is no reason the 14th couldn't have been written the same way. So why write it in such broad terms if it was not meant to be applied to a broad variety of issues? Just because some 19th century legislator wasn't going around worrying about everyone else's gay love affairs doesn't mean you should ignore the egalitarian ideals they wrote down and put into the constitution. Amending the constitution is not something that was done lightly. People did put some thought into it before they passed these amendments, and it requires widespread support to pass them, not just one dude with an agenda -- so I think what the constitution actually says is a more accurate reflection of America's values than your personal theory of what it was supposed to say. I know 19th century people have a reputation for being prejudiced and irrational, but give us some credit. We were fluent in English enough to know what we were saying.

[Sun Wukong]

I am not very religious. Obviously. I mean just look at how I run my nation. That said, this country was founded on religious freedom. Any true American will recognize that what this teacher did was wrong.

In my personal opinion, it might actually be worse than a teacher teaching that God is real. Teaching against something like that, something sacred, is wrong. And to a child no less.

Religion has no place in a classroom, regardless of whether the teacher is pro religion or anti religion.

I would rather "any true American" learn to recognize bullshit when they see it.

[Pope Joan]

Faith cannot be reduced to fact, or it ceases to be faith. It then becomes something less.

This includes all ideology. Those systems are also dependent upon faith.

Rudolph Bultmann, theologian, declared that all the New Testament content was legend, but he meant this in a literary-critical sense. Nevertheless, he resisted any attempt to reduce the canon to mere fact.

So why not let it be opinion, then? That leaves room for conversation, at least.

[Leetmerica]

I am not very religious. Obviously. I mean just look at how I run my nation. That said, this country was founded on religious freedom. Any true American will recognize that what this teacher did was wrong.

In my personal opinion, it might actually be worse than a teacher teaching that God is real. Teaching against something like that, something sacred, is wrong. And to a child no less.

Religion has no place in a classroom, regardless of whether the teacher is pro religion or anti religion.

I would rather "any true American" learn to recognize bullshit when they see it.

Not sure what you're referring to

[Hladgos]

Faith cannot be reduced to fact, or it ceases to be faith. It then becomes something less.

This includes all ideology. Those systems are also dependent upon faith.

Rudolph Bultmann, theologian, declared that all the New Testament content was legend, but he meant this in a literary-critical sense. Nevertheless, he resisted any attempt to reduce the canon to mere fact.

So why not let it be opinion, then? That leaves room for conversation, at least.

That's a very good point. I didn't understand why the teacher wouldn't allow 'opinion' as an answer.

[Sun Wukong]

I would rather "any true American" learn to recognize bullshit when they see it.

Not sure what you're referring to

The fact that the title of the thread and the OP are vapid lies that you bought into without question.

[The Alma Mater]

Faith cannot be reduced to fact, or it ceases to be faith. It then becomes something less.

This includes all ideology. Those systems are also dependent upon faith.

Rudolph Bultmann, theologian, declared that all the New Testament content was legend, but he meant this in a literary-critical sense. Nevertheless, he resisted any attempt to reduce the canon to mere fact.

So why not let it be opinion, then? That leaves room for conversation, at least.

Being neutral does make lessons hard.
Some people believe in God. Some people believe in faeries. Some people believe in evolution and some do not. Some people do not believe the holocaust happened. Some people do not believe the Armenian genocide was a genocide at all. Some people believe the Falklands should be Argentinan. Some people believe Israel does not exist.Some people believe the world is flat. Etc etc

Hard to not upset belief...