NATION

PASSWORD

English Prison System sends Transgender Woman to Male Prison

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:23 pm

Nocturnalis wrote:
Liriena wrote:There is a better word. It's gender.


Transgenderism itself isn't a gender. Is it? I honestly don't even know any more, the whole thing is getting that ridiculous.


Your right. "Transgenderism" isn't a gender. Being a woman is though, as I can very well say from experience.
Bailey Quinn, Nice ta meet ya! (Female Pronouns Please)
Also known as Harley
NS Stats are not used here.
<3 Alex's NS Wife <3
Normal is a setting on the dryer

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 141925
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:24 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Nocturnalis wrote:
Transgenderism itself isn't a gender. Is it? I honestly don't even know any more, the whole thing is getting that ridiculous.


Your right. "Transgenderism" isn't a gender. Being a woman is though, as I can very well say from experience.

A woman on the internet? :O
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:25 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Your right. "Transgenderism" isn't a gender. Being a woman is though, as I can very well say from experience.

A woman on the internet? :O


OMG no... it can't be! I must just be a figment of NSG's collective imagination!
Bailey Quinn, Nice ta meet ya! (Female Pronouns Please)
Also known as Harley
NS Stats are not used here.
<3 Alex's NS Wife <3
Normal is a setting on the dryer

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38176
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:26 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ifreann wrote:A woman on the internet? :O


OMG no... it can't be! I must just be a figment of NSG's collective imagination!


There are no women on NSG. If there were then I'd have to put on pants and that's simply unacceptable.
Strong opinions, lightly held.

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:27 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
OMG no... it can't be! I must just be a figment of NSG's collective imagination!


There are no women on NSG. If there were then I'd have to put on pants and that's simply unacceptable.


*stares*
Its fine you can keep them down......
Bailey Quinn, Nice ta meet ya! (Female Pronouns Please)
Also known as Harley
NS Stats are not used here.
<3 Alex's NS Wife <3
Normal is a setting on the dryer

User avatar
Wisconsin9
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35753
Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:27 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
The Alexanderians wrote:A lot of prison inmate dont care too much on gender, that being said a woman would probably be a red letter target regardless.


I'm not convinced.
I think that while it's possible some nefarious types might try, you're also going to see the general male protectiveness kick in and prisoners don't like sex criminals.
I think prisons could be desegregated and it would probably reduce incidents of prison rape, because it would mean that status and courting begin to take influence on the population. I think it might well act as a civilizing influence in general. The opinion the opposite sex has of you could regulate behaviors.

That, and the guards are likely to keep an eye out in this specific case.

All that said, it's possible that this transwoman won't be treated like a woman in mens jail would be, and the protective tendencies won't manifest due to transphobia.

Not only does it happen, it's actually more common for gay and transgender inmates to be raped.
~~~~~~~~
We are currently 33% through the Trump administration.
................................................................................................................................................................................................................
................................................................................................................................................................................................................

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 141925
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:27 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ifreann wrote:A woman on the internet? :O


OMG no... it can't be! I must just be a figment of NSG's collective imagination!

How awful that must be for you.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:29 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
OMG no... it can't be! I must just be a figment of NSG's collective imagination!

How awful that must be for you.


Yes, it is.... fading in and out of existence as people get more or less imaginative and all.....
Bailey Quinn, Nice ta meet ya! (Female Pronouns Please)
Also known as Harley
NS Stats are not used here.
<3 Alex's NS Wife <3
Normal is a setting on the dryer

User avatar
Nocturnalis
Diplomat
 
Posts: 916
Founded: Mar 24, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Nocturnalis » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:30 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Nocturnalis wrote:
Transgenderism itself isn't a gender. Is it? I honestly don't even know any more, the whole thing is getting that ridiculous.


Your right. "Transgenderism" isn't a gender. Being a woman is though, as I can very well say from experience.


Well duh, it is. That's not what I was arguing in that particular instance.

Out of curiosity, what would a better word than 'lifestyle' be, then?

Silly; women don't exist on the internet because everyone is anonymous!
Proud member of The Anti Democracy League
This nation represents only some of my views.

User avatar
Mairland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 184
Founded: Aug 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Mairland » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:32 pm

Liriena wrote:
Mairland wrote:Whatever.

Born a male ---> have passport that says you are male ---> registered as a man ---> you go to a male prison.

---> become the target of disproportionate amounts of violence, because no amount of shoddy biological essentialism can change the fact that you are, both internally and externally, a woman in an all-male prison.

Congrats. You may well end up having a woman's blood on your hands, courtesy of your transphobia.

I am not a transphobic.

It is called orderly government.
"And until all the professional class elitists get their heads out of their little bubble and get in touch with what matters to the common man, we will continue coming out to the voting booth and burning your entire globalist establishment to the ground."

#EnoughIsEnough

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:36 pm

Nocturnalis wrote:
Liriena wrote:There is a better word. It's gender.


Transgenderism itself isn't a gender.

Technically it's the name of the mismatch between someone's gender and their assigned sex.

Nocturnalis wrote:Is it? I honestly don't even know any more, the whole thing is getting that ridiculous.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's "ridiculous". I don't understand quantum mechanics, but I don't consider it "ridiculous" because of that.

Nocturnalis wrote:
Liriena wrote:You really can't see the connection between disdainful rhetoric towards a specific group and violence against that same specific group? Do you think transgender people would face the same amount of violence if transphobic rhetoric was more frowned upon by society?


Active disdain, sure.
Passive disdain, no.

You can't fathom how taking part in the normalisation of disdain towards a certain group might make particularly disdainful people more willing to express their disdain through violence?

One of the reasons why the trans panic defenses have been effective in the past is because it relies on the "passive" disdain of people other than those who are violently disdainful.

Nocturnalis wrote:I'm not exactly inspiring violence with my intense indifference.

Except you are clearly not indifferent. You have a pretty defined opinion on this matter, and you've publicly expressed it without anybody here requesting it beforehand.

Nocturnalis wrote:Newsflash, a good portion of people don't care. Are they suddenly responsible for murders they could not have realistically committed?

Directly? Certainly not. But passive acceptance of violence towards a vulnerable group necessarily enables the perpetuation of said violence.

Nocturnalis wrote:And tell me, how many murders against trans people are committed explicitly because of their gender? Explicitly because of anti-trans rhetoric?

That may take a while to answer, but in the meantime, here's some info on hate crimes against trans people. http://www.advocate.com/crime/2015/06/09/anti-lgbt-violence-down-anti-trans-hate-crimes
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
East Catalina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1123
Founded: Oct 31, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby East Catalina » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:37 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Ifreann wrote:A woman on the internet? :O


OMG no... it can't be! I must just be a figment of NSG's collective imagination!

We're all pervs obviously and that old quote is still true: our men are men, our women are men, our children are FBI agents.
No, I'll take you at your word. Anything worse is a violation of privacy.
Now I understand justice Blackmun's opinion on Roe v. Wade!
Nocturnalis wrote:
East Catalina wrote:Oh, it's not an attempt to persuade transphobes to switch sides.
It's a statement, which I made.


Eh, good for you. Still doesn't change the fact that trying to convince people through...less than stellar rhetoric like that doesn't really work out that well, usually.

True.
Though I suppose that understanding the matter begins with understanding gender, and then learning how it isn't linked to chromosomes reliably.
United States of East Catalina, Caroga and the Catalina Islands
Mirajvor ni Mankrusa, Karoga ke Katalinsoqqvor
Estados Unidos de Catalina del Este, Catalina del Oeste y las Islas Menores

¡Adelante juntos!
Together forward!

Former colony of Spain (1547-1898) and the United States (1898-1946 in the East; 1898-1953 in the West) which underwent a civil war (1946-86) and is now recovering
Capital: Ocean City
Government type: Federal directorial parliamentary republic
39 states and 9 territories
Population: 248 million
Languages: Carogan, Spanish, English

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:40 pm

Mairland wrote:
Liriena wrote:---> become the target of disproportionate amounts of violence, because no amount of shoddy biological essentialism can change the fact that you are, both internally and externally, a woman in an all-male prison.

Congrats. You may well end up having a woman's blood on your hands, courtesy of your transphobia.

I am not a transphobic.

It is called orderly government.

And exactly what purpose does the government being so unflinchingly orderly serve here? Who benefits from having someone who medical professionals consider a woman in an all-male prison?
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
The Alexanderians
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12581
Founded: Oct 03, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Alexanderians » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:42 pm

Renewed Imperial Germany wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
There are no women on NSG. If there were then I'd have to put on pants and that's simply unacceptable.


*stares*
Its fine you can keep them down......

You two are going on the quotes thread now XD
Galloism wrote:Or we can go with feminism doesn't exist. We all imagined it. Collectively.
You can't fight the friction
Women belong in the kitchen
Men belong in the kitchen
Everyone belongs in the kitchen
Kitchen has food
I have brought dishonor to my gaming clan
Achesia wrote:Threads like this is why I need to stop coming to NSG....

Marethian Lupanar of Teladre wrote:A bright and cheerful mountain village of chapel-goers~

The Archregimancy wrote:
Hagia Sophia is best church.

Major-Tom wrote:Why am I full of apathy?

I'm just here to be the peanut gallery
уσυ нανєи'т gσт тнє fυℓℓ єffє¢т

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 141925
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:45 pm

Liriena wrote:
Mairland wrote:I am not a transphobic.

It is called orderly government.

And exactly what purpose does the government being so unflinchingly orderly serve here? Who benefits from having someone who medical professionals consider a woman in an all-male prison?

People whose lives revolve around paperwork.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
Nocturnalis
Diplomat
 
Posts: 916
Founded: Mar 24, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Nocturnalis » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:46 pm

Liriena wrote:
Mairland wrote:I am not a transphobic.

It is called orderly government.

And exactly what purpose does the government being so unflinchingly orderly serve here? Who benefits from having someone who medical professionals consider a woman in an all-male prison?


The folks who gotta sort through their paperwork, obviously.
Last edited by Nocturnalis on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud member of The Anti Democracy League
This nation represents only some of my views.

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54843
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:50 pm

Nocturnalis wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Technically speaking, "trans panic" isn't wholesale murder.


Take that up with Benxboro, they explicitly stated 'murderers'.

"Wholesale murder" is a charged term meaning either literal open season or mass murder.
Ostroeuropa wrote:
The Alexanderians wrote:A lot of prison inmate dont care too much on gender, that being said a woman would probably be a red letter target regardless.


I'm not convinced.
I think that while it's possible some nefarious types might try, you're also going to see the general male protectiveness kick in and prisoners don't like sex criminals.
I think prisons could be desegregated and it would probably reduce incidents of prison rape, because it would mean that status and courting begin to take influence on the population. I think it might well act as a civilizing influence in general. The opinion the opposite sex has of you could regulate behaviors.

That, and the guards are likely to keep an eye out in this specific case.

All that said, it's possible that this transwoman won't be treated like a woman in mens jail would be, and the protective tendencies won't manifest due to transphobia.

Bristol Prison apparently has a reputation for being especially violent.
Isn't it the prison that Blunkett said should be machine gunned the last time they had a major riot?
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Harisistan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 18
Founded: Oct 07, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Harisistan » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:53 pm

well, he has a dick, so he's a dude.
grindcore is not music.

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53477
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:54 pm

Harisistan wrote:well, he has a dick, so he's a dude.


Yet another spectacular failure to read the OP and a reliance on biological essentialism.
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

User avatar
Harisistan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 18
Founded: Oct 07, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Harisistan » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:56 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Harisistan wrote:well, he has a dick, so he's a dude.


Yet another spectacular failure to read the OP and a reliance on biological essentialism.

well, he has a dude, so he's a dick.
grindcore is not music.

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60892
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:56 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Harisistan wrote:well, he has a dick, so he's a dude.


Yet another spectacular failure to read the OP and a reliance on biological essentialism.

Also, what's with this obsession with trans women's penises? I'm violently pansexual, and even I don't spend that much time thinking about other people's genitals.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20796
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:57 pm

Harisistan wrote:well, he has a dick, so he's a dude.

No she isn't. If I were to swap your mind with that of someone of the opposite sex, would you cease to be the same gender as before?
Last edited by Wallenburg on Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs, Viceroy for The East Pacific

User avatar
Talvezout
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5182
Founded: Oct 05, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Talvezout » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:57 pm

Liriena wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Yet another spectacular failure to read the OP and a reliance on biological essentialism.

Also, what's with this obsession with trans women's penises? I'm violently pansexual, and even I don't spend that much time thinking about other people's genitals.


It's like the rule of inverse homosexuality.
hey check out my dispatches and factbooks!
Remember Bad times, are just times that are bad.

User avatar
Harisistan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 18
Founded: Oct 07, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Harisistan » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:58 pm

Liriena wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Yet another spectacular failure to read the OP and a reliance on biological essentialism.

Also, what's with this obsession with trans women's penises? I'm violently pansexual, and even I don't spend that much time thinking about other people's genitals.

I think if a person was born with a penis, he is a male, if a person was born with a vagina, she is a female.
grindcore is not music.

User avatar
Renewed Imperial Germany
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6928
Founded: Jun 18, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Renewed Imperial Germany » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:58 pm

Harisistan wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Yet another spectacular failure to read the OP and a reliance on biological essentialism.

well, he has a dude, so he's a dick.


Huhh what? There's a dude stapled between her legs? How'd he get there?!
Bailey Quinn, Nice ta meet ya! (Female Pronouns Please)
Also known as Harley
NS Stats are not used here.
<3 Alex's NS Wife <3
Normal is a setting on the dryer

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cordel One, Echellia, Freiheit Reich, Necroghastia, Nobel Hobos 2, Odreria, Rusozak, The Black Forrest, Turth

Advertisement

Remove ads