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English Prison System sends Transgender Woman to Male Prison

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Serksis Federation
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Postby Serksis Federation » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:02 am

Alyakia wrote:
Serksis Federation wrote:

Also inmates can be put in cells alone away from others if they are at risk themselves.


if only there was an entire prison for people that were at risk for this exact reason

A prison for transgenders that did not get their gender legally reassigned and was guilty of a crime? Yeah go be an activist for that.
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Postby Gauthier » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:03 am

Nothing more delightful than the assumption that a transgendered MtF wants to be sent to women's prison for a free peep show. On that account men's prison population should all be put in solitary on the assumption that the gays might be ogling the other male prisoners.
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Serksis Federation
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Postby Serksis Federation » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:04 am

Hirota wrote:
Serksis Federation wrote:Also inmates can be put in cells alone away from others if they are at risk themselves.
Solitary is typically used for both people who are a risk to others, and who are at risk from others.

Comparing her (or other potential victims of prison violence) to someone who has tried to shiv a fellow inmate isn't a constructive approach.

I didn't compare her to someone who is a risk to others, but to someone who is at risk from others.
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:04 am

Gauthier wrote:Nothing more delightful than the assumption that a transgendered MtF wants to be sent to women's prison for a free peep show. On that account men's prison population should all be put in solitary on the assumption that the gays might be ogling the other male prisoners.

Honestly, I'd almost prefer that they were arguing based on that. The lovely fellow above you thinks it's okay because there's a fucking technicality.
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Alyakia
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Postby Alyakia » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:05 am

Serksis Federation wrote:
Alyakia wrote:
if only there was an entire prison for people that were at risk for this exact reason

A prison for transgenders that did not get their gender legally reassigned and was guilty of a crime? Yeah go be an activist for that.


no really i want you to justify the existence of female prisons to me

you don't care about rape risk, so that's not it. and i don't see how seperating them is to the benefit of society? is it showers? why is catering to their feely weelies our problem? didn't you say prisons aren't there for luxury? again you're completely discounting rape risk so why should i build an entire seperate building just to make them feel good? this is ridiculous. do you have any idea how expensive building an entire new building is? and you can't tell me that "well it's the law and i blindy agree with the law" is going to be your response.
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Kanaria
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Postby Kanaria » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:07 am

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Kanaria wrote:Now we keep 'em in jail for 5000 times longer. :twisted:

Yes, I'm sure punitive action will make up for the entirely preventable trauma.

Sorry, I'm just really mad that this event happened...I'm layering on the sarcasm to keep the anger from boiling over. Somewhere along the way, the justice system should have thought about this in something other than a typically...abstract manner. If they don't keep her away from the other prisoners she's screwed.
Gauthier wrote:Nothing more delightful than the assumption that a transgendered MtF wants to be sent to women's prison for a free peep show. On that account men's prison population should all be put in solitary on the assumption that the gays might be ogling the other male prisoners.

Don't you mean male prisoners? Wouldn't they be running the free illegal peep show?

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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:07 am

Kanaria wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:Yes, I'm sure punitive action will make up for the entirely preventable trauma.

Sorry, I'm just really mad that this event happened...I'm layering on the sarcasm to keep the anger from boiling over. Somewhere along the way, the justice system should have thought about this in something other than a typically...abstract manner. If they don't keep her away from the other prisoners she's screwed.

Ah, alright. Carry on.
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Postby Serksis Federation » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:07 am

Alyakia wrote:
Serksis Federation wrote:A prison for transgenders that did not get their gender legally reassigned and was guilty of a crime? Yeah go be an activist for that.


no really i want you to justify the existence of female prisons to me

you don't care about rape risk, so that's not it. and i don't see how seperating them is to the benefit of society? is it showers? why is catering to their feely weelies our problem? didn't you say prisons aren't there for luxury? again you're completely discounting rape risk so why should i build an entire seperate building just to make them feel good? this is ridiculous. do you have any idea how expensive building an entire new building is? and you can't tell me that "well it's the law and i blindy agree with the law" is going to be your response.


I care about the rape risk, obviously. I never said anything about her never being raped.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:10 am

BK117B2 wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:The betterment of society would argue strongly against throwing an attractive, large-breasted woman into a male prison.
It would instead argue for placing that person into a women's prison or putting them on any other sort of sentence that is appropriate for an assault charge. There are many that do not involve prison sentences.


Eh, locked up seems a reasonable place for those who initiate unwanted violence against others

Many people don't receive that sentence. In many cases, it is not necessary.

And again, no-one is arguing she should not go to a prison. People are arguing she should not go to this prison.
Serksis Federation wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:It's putting someone in a place where it's not unlikely she'll be raped, in direct contravention of the opinion of a medical expert, because of a technicality on her passport. I can't think of a better example of blind adherence than this.

Everyone is likely to be raped in a male prison, that should be changed for everyone not just in her case alone.

Not adding one more to the statistics in the first place seems a good place to start, not sure about you.
Wallenburg wrote:This is total bullshit. They aren't even doing a good job pretending that they aren't persecuting her for being transgender.

It wasn't done with malice.

The article phrases it in such a manner to suggest that the court considered sending the defendant to a female prison but given her legal status as a legal male, it felt it had "no choice" but to send Tara to a male prison. Which is surely a failing of the importance placed on the legal status since following it will put a person at grave, unnecessary risk.
Serksis Federation wrote:
Alyakia wrote:
no really i want you to justify the existence of female prisons to me

you don't care about rape risk, so that's not it. and i don't see how seperating them is to the benefit of society? is it showers? why is catering to their feely weelies our problem? didn't you say prisons aren't there for luxury? again you're completely discounting rape risk so why should i build an entire seperate building just to make them feel good? this is ridiculous. do you have any idea how expensive building an entire new building is? and you can't tell me that "well it's the law and i blindy agree with the law" is going to be your response.


I care about the rape risk, obviously. I never said anything about her never being raped.

Well evidently not, because you oppose measures be taken to prevent the risk of harm she face besides place her in solitary or introduce a judicial review that will change things in ten years, not three months.
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Postby Hauptskalreich » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:13 am

Ifreann wrote:
Mr Howell wrote:he's a filthy criminal, who cares what prison he goes to.

*she

No, he.

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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:13 am

Serksis Federation wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:Oh for fuck's sake, take a look at that picture and tell me she isn't going to move straight to the top of everybody's list.

She isn't going to go to the top of everybody's list. Also inmates can be put in cells alone away from others if they are at risk themselves.

Right, so now instead of just sending her to a prison she shouldn't actually be in, we're also isolating her from most human contact for three months, to protect her from a threat she wouldn't have needed protection from if she was sent to the right prison in the first place. And, well, the possible psychological harm that something like that can cause sure is a shame, but hey, she asked for it by not jumping through that one specific hoop over there.

:roll:
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Postby Kanaria » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:16 am

Hauptskalreich wrote:
Ifreann wrote:*she

No, he.

How is it that such a person can still be identified as "he" despite all the effort they made to resemble people who would be called "she"? Biological naturalism? Gender identity is as much biologically influenced as chromosomes are. Don't bring your stupid shit up about identifying with a fucking animal or other shit, either, and try and claim that's the same and q.e.d. gender identity and transgenderism is ridiculous.

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Postby Wallenburg » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:17 am

Hauptskalreich wrote:
Ifreann wrote:*she

No, he.

No, she. She is a woman.
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Kanaria
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Postby Kanaria » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:18 am

Wallenburg wrote:
Hauptskalreich wrote:No, he.

No, she. She is a woman.

My thoughts exactly.

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Postby Serksis Federation » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:19 am

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Serksis Federation wrote:She isn't going to go to the top of everybody's list. Also inmates can be put in cells alone away from others if they are at risk themselves.

Right, so now instead of just sending her to a prison she shouldn't actually be in, we're also isolating her from most human contact for three months, to protect her from a threat she wouldn't have needed protection from if she was sent to the right prison in the first place. And, well, the possible psychological harm that something like that can cause sure is a shame, but hey, she asked for it by not jumping through that one specific hoop over there.

:roll:

It being the prison you want her to be sent to doesn't make it the right prison.
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Postby Liriena » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:20 am

Sure, put a woman in an all-male prison. I'm sure nothing bad will come from that. It's not like transgender women are already subjected to disproportionate amounts of violence outside of prisons.
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Postby Furry Alairia and Algeria » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:21 am

The Patrimony of Saint Peter wrote:
Alvecia wrote:
False


So if you paint me with white and black stripes am I a zebra? I demand to be a zebra. I shall have my hands removed and put hooves on them and I shall join my zebra brethren on the Serengeti. And when I commit a crime you can't do shit because I'm a zebra.

He's a guy. He has a vestigial thingy so he's a guy. Call him Chelsie or Samantha all you want but he's a guy. You don't always get what you want. I can't be a zebra. He is just taking halloween way too seriously and wants to be a monster all year round. It's working.

One is a completely foolish idea not applicable to humans, the other is transgenderism.
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Postby Kanaria » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:21 am

Liriena wrote:Sure, put a woman in an all-male prison. I'm sure nothing bad will come from that. It's not like transgender women are already subjected to disproportionate amounts of violence outside of prisons.

The bloodshed continues.
The letter of the law isn't the spirit. Wonder if Britain forgot that.

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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:23 am

Serksis Federation wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:Right, so now instead of just sending her to a prison she shouldn't actually be in, we're also isolating her from most human contact for three months, to protect her from a threat she wouldn't have needed protection from if she was sent to the right prison in the first place. And, well, the possible psychological harm that something like that can cause sure is a shame, but hey, she asked for it by not jumping through that one specific hoop over there.

:roll:

It being the prison you want her to be sent to doesn't make it the right prison.

You're not getting extra credit for skipping over the part of my post where I mention the psychological effects of long-term isolation.
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Postby Serksis Federation » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:27 am

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Serksis Federation wrote:It being the prison you want her to be sent to doesn't make it the right prison.

You're not getting extra credit for skipping over the part of my post where I mention the psychological effects of long-term isolation.


Everything became irrelevant there. There are psychological effects on going to prison no matter what.
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:29 am

Serksis Federation wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:You're not getting extra credit for skipping over the part of my post where I mention the psychological effects of long-term isolation.


Everything became irrelevant there. There are psychological effects on going to prison no matter what.

The fact that the slippery slope is there doesn't mean we should grab a sled.
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Postby Liriena » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:30 am

Serksis Federation wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:You're not getting extra credit for skipping over the part of my post where I mention the psychological effects of long-term isolation.


Everything became irrelevant there. There are psychological effects on going to prison no matter what.

Yes, but some effects go beyond what is strictly necessary for the purposes of imprisonment, and go straight into cruel and unusual punishment.
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:31 am

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Serksis Federation wrote:It being the prison you want her to be sent to doesn't make it the right prison.

You're not getting extra credit for skipping over the part of my post where I mention the psychological effects of long-term isolation.


You mean the stuff about how solitary is considered to be torture by some international bodies?
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:31 am

Vassenor wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:You're not getting extra credit for skipping over the part of my post where I mention the psychological effects of long-term isolation.


You mean the stuff about how solitary is considered to be torture by some international bodies?

Yes. That. That is exactly the kind of stuff I meant.
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Postby Serksis Federation » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:32 am

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Serksis Federation wrote:
Everything became irrelevant there. There are psychological effects on going to prison no matter what.

The fact that the slippery slope is there doesn't mean we should grab a sled.

Do you think things will go smoothly in a female prison?
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