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Northern Ireland Flag Intimidation

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Fionnghuala doire
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Northern Ireland Flag Intimidation

Postby Fionnghuala doire » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:30 pm

Loyalist flags now on "every lamppost" at new development

UVF flags or other loyalist emblems now appear on "every lamppost" at a new social housing development, as tenants prepare for their first full week in their homes.

Complaints were first made earlier this year about the flags at Killynure Green, on the outskirts of Carryduff on the outskirts of south Belfast.

But despite ongoing negotiations which appeared to have reduced the scale of the problem to one flag, dozens more loyalist emblems were erected just as residents prepared to move in.

On Thursday homeowners received the keys to more than 40 homes at the development, situated in the predominantly unionist Killynure estate.

Choice Housing, the association responsible for the properties, posted that its "super energy efficient new homes" were finally ready.

Ulster Unionist councillor Michael Henderson said he was "appalled" at the sight of the flags at the development.

He said: "I was up last week for the opening of the play park. There was one flag up and the community association had been negotiating with people about taking the flags down. I was appalled to then go up on Friday and see every lamp post covered."

The former Mayor of Castlereagh added: "At the last meeting to discuss it it appeared as if it had been resolved and I don't know what has gone wrong here. No-one knows who put them up."

In March, residents who spoke to The Irish News said they were "disgusted" at the flags, while SDLP councillor Brian Hanvey said it was “regrettable in this day and age”.

He said: “Things like this should be consigned to the past. Having lived in the area for 30 years I know this is in no way a reflection on the good people of Carryduff."

However the PSNI had said it would not be acting to remove the flags and logos as it had "not received any complaints from members of the public".

In a statement, Choice Housing said it was "continuing to engage with the police service, political representatives and local community and remains committed to resolving this issue."


For those not in the know, Northern Ireland is the kind of place where it is of the utmost importance, to some cunts, to clearly designate areas as either protestant (/unionist/loyalist) or catholic (/nationalist/republican). This is most commonly in the form of painting the kerbstones in national colours or by sticking up a shit load of flags around the area. There's also the frequent use of murals although my views on them is slightly more nuanced. The real shittiness comes when anyone suggests taking them down at which point it becomes a massive effort to get anyone in a position of authority to back such moves without dragging their heels and trying to pander to the lowest common denominator of the local dickheads. In the end we have great sights such as in this article where brand new housing is automatically labelled as safe for x group only and the division of communities continues.

It is, clearly, my opinion that the local councils and police service have a duty to remove these types of signs at the earliest possibility if they are to be at all sincere in their claims of working for the resolution of centuries old conflicts. Northern Ireland is simply a lost cause and will never progress if we simply paper over old bigotries and refuse to confront them.

Your thoughts?

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Rhomaia
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Postby Rhomaia » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:33 pm

Obviously they should be removed. It's a hassle for the authorities and they only cause tension and disunity.

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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:26 pm

Clearly the only flag that should be allowed is the Union Flag, that would stop this pettiness.
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Alyakia
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Postby Alyakia » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:28 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:Clearly the only flag that should be allowed is the Union Flag, that would stop this pettiness.


not sure if serious
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:29 pm

Alyakia wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:Clearly the only flag that should be allowed is the Union Flag, that would stop this pettiness.


not sure if serious


Nor am I. :)
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Alyakia
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Postby Alyakia » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:30 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Alyakia wrote:
not sure if serious


Nor am I. :)


we have reached peak meta
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Enormous Gentiles
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Postby Enormous Gentiles » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:14 am

Can't we just put American flags everywhere, and call it a day?
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:20 am

Enormous Gentiles wrote:Can't we just put American flags everywhere, and call it a day?


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Postby Idzequitch » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:21 am

The solution is obvious.

Get rid of all the flags and make everyone mark their territory by pissing everywhere like dogs do. *nod*
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Fionnghuala doire
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Postby Fionnghuala doire » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:24 am

Enormous Gentiles wrote:Can't we just put American flags everywhere, and call it a day?


There are plenty of Confederate flags flying about the place if that helps you at all.

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Ardoki
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Postby Ardoki » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:27 am

Dooom35796821595 wrote:Clearly the only flag that should be allowed is the Union Flag, that would stop this pettiness.

Nope.

Only the Irish flag shall be permitted. ;)
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:28 am

Will the removal of these murals and flags do something to actually improve the situation? Although my knowledge here is very superficial, it seems that for something to really change, the adjustments have to be made from NI's society ground up, deep within it. The religious division runs deep.
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Fionnghuala doire
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Postby Fionnghuala doire » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:31 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Will the removal of these murals and flags do something to actually improve the situation? Although my knowledge here is very superficial, it seems that for something to really change, the adjustments have to be made from NI's society ground up, deep within it. The religious division runs deep.


Short term : It'll cause dickheads to kick up a fuss and act like the sky is falling

Long term : It'll help prevent ethnic groups laying claim to regions and enforcing a divide.

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Enormous Gentiles
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Postby Enormous Gentiles » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:33 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Enormous Gentiles wrote:Can't we just put American flags everywhere, and call it a day?


Thank you for your kind toilet roll donation.



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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:34 am

Fionnghuala doire wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Will the removal of these murals and flags do something to actually improve the situation? Although my knowledge here is very superficial, it seems that for something to really change, the adjustments have to be made from NI's society ground up, deep within it. The religious division runs deep.


Short term : It'll cause dickheads to kick up a fuss and act like the sky is falling

Long term : It'll help prevent ethnic groups laying claim to regions and enforcing a divide.


Take it for what it is, an outsider's view (and one only from documentaries and a very short pass through the region): the division seemed, to me, incredibly strong. Not impossible to breach but very strong.

I seem to recall from a documentary I watched a while ago that there have been areas where they've tried to do integration of both Catholics and Protestants, particularly schools, with some success. Can you confirm this?
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Fionnghuala doire
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Postby Fionnghuala doire » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:35 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Fionnghuala doire wrote:
Short term : It'll cause dickheads to kick up a fuss and act like the sky is falling

Long term : It'll help prevent ethnic groups laying claim to regions and enforcing a divide.


Take it for what it is, an outsider's view (and one only from documentaries and a very short pass through the region): the division seemed, to me, incredibly strong. Not impossible to breach but very strong.

I seem to recall from a documentary I watched a while ago that there have been areas where they've tried to do integration of both Catholics and Protestants, particularly schools, with some success. Can you confirm this?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... rn_Ireland

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:40 am

Fionnghuala doire wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Take it for what it is, an outsider's view (and one only from documentaries and a very short pass through the region): the division seemed, to me, incredibly strong. Not impossible to breach but very strong.

I seem to recall from a documentary I watched a while ago that there have been areas where they've tried to do integration of both Catholics and Protestants, particularly schools, with some success. Can you confirm this?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... rn_Ireland


It seems that there have been some successes at least.
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Fionnghuala doire
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Postby Fionnghuala doire » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:47 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:


It seems that there have been some successes at least.


I'm confused. Are you saying that you don't think removal of territorial markers will have any effect because you don't think it produces a ground up alteration?

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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:48 am

Fionnghuala doire wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
It seems that there have been some successes at least.


I'm confused. Are you saying that you don't think removal of territorial markers will have any effect because you don't think it produces a ground up alteration?

Removing flags is a bit superficial.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:50 am

Fionnghuala doire wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
It seems that there have been some successes at least.


I'm confused. Are you saying that you don't think removal of territorial markers will have any effect because you don't think it produces a ground up alteration?


No, no. I can't really say that as, like I told you, my knowledge is very superficial. I was really referring to what looked to me like some success with the integrated schools. Sorry if I gave you the wrong idea.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:02 am

Fionnghuala doire wrote:
Enormous Gentiles wrote:Can't we just put American flags everywhere, and call it a day?


There are plenty of Confederate flags flying about the place if that helps you at all.


Would you like me to come over and clean out the Confederates?

Also, could you post a link to your source for the OP?

About the flags, they're obnoxious. I support NI staying with the UK, but that doesn't mean people need to be such dicks toward their Catholic and/or Irish nationalist neighbors. There's unionism, and then there's trolling, and some people clearly cross the line into trolling.
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Fionnghuala doire
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Postby Fionnghuala doire » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:09 am

Idzequitch wrote:
Fionnghuala doire wrote:
I'm confused. Are you saying that you don't think removal of territorial markers will have any effect because you don't think it produces a ground up alteration?

Removing flags is a bit superficial.


If you're the type of person that can ignore the very real consequences of territorial marking in new estates then, yes, I can see how you could think that.

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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:42 am

Fionnghuala doire wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:Removing flags is a bit superficial.


If you're the type of person that can ignore the very real consequences of territorial marking in new estates then, yes, I can see how you could think that.

Well, like Nana, I can't really claim to have intimate knowledge of any of this, but if the flags are removed, would they not find another way to mark territory? It's not the flags themselves, but the meaning behind them that's problematic, right? Could these intentions not be communicated in a different way if the flags are removed?
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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:14 am

Loyalists acting like pricks, colour me unsurprised. I remember a while back loyalists were flying the confederate battle flag and swastika flags.
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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:17 am

Idzequitch wrote:
Fionnghuala doire wrote:
If you're the type of person that can ignore the very real consequences of territorial marking in new estates then, yes, I can see how you could think that.

Well, like Nana, I can't really claim to have intimate knowledge of any of this, but if the flags are removed, would they not find another way to mark territory? It's not the flags themselves, but the meaning behind them that's problematic, right? Could these intentions not be communicated in a different way if the flags are removed?


These aren't just any flags though, they're the flags of loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF. These groups were delighted to murder Catholics purely because of their religion for decades. These flags represent hate groups.
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