"Pork or Nothing" : How Politics intervenes children's lunch

[The Alexanderians]

I mean we need to remember the reds and yellows too!

And all them grays!

We've got all kinds of colors waiting for you!

[Galloism]

Le sigh. Go back and fuckin' read. NO ONE WAS ASKING FOR HALAL MEALS. An alternative had always been provided, and they were upset that due to political agendas, that option was being denied them, and causing problems for their kids. Even the teacher quoted there agreed with that sentiment.

Yeah. What was being done in these cases was provide turkey sausage. Now neither that nor a vegetarian alternative will be provided in the schools that fall under towns where National Front have the forefront in power.

Wait, isn't turkey sausage actually cheaper than most pork products?

... wouldn't that mean the school was actually saving money by offering the alternative?

[The Alexanderians]

Ok, let's back up here. The school was originally providing Halal meals. It was cheap, and of little cost to bear for the state. The government now wants the Halal meals removed. That seems to me like denying Muslims the ability for their children to exercise their religion. Pure and simple. You can draw logical extensions all you want but, at the end of the day, this was an unnecessary forbearance and obstacle added in the way of Muslim children. Its not about not adding new rights, its about taking away rights that already existed.

It wasn't a right. It was a privilege.
The state is not hindering their ability to practice their religion. It merely isn't helping them to do so anymore.

Maybe you should start checking those to make sure everyone has some.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Yeah. What was being done in these cases was provide turkey sausage. Now neither that nor a vegetarian alternative will be provided in the schools that fall under towns where National Front have the forefront in power.

Wait, isn't turkey sausage actually cheaper than most pork products?

... wouldn't that mean the school was actually saving money by offering the alternative?

I don't really know, dear. I can check.

[The Alexanderians]

Yeah. What was being done in these cases was provide turkey sausage. Now neither that nor a vegetarian alternative will be provided in the schools that fall under towns where National Front have the forefront in power.

Wait, isn't turkey sausage actually cheaper than most pork products?

... wouldn't that mean the school was actually saving money by offering the alternative?

And is from what I understand a healthier alternative, it's almost like these Muslims are on to something...hmmm...nah.

[Divitaen]

Ok, let's back up here. The school was originally providing Halal meals. It was cheap, and of little cost to bear for the state. The government now wants the Halal meals removed. That seems to me like denying Muslims the ability for their children to exercise their religion. Pure and simple. You can draw logical extensions all you want but, at the end of the day, this was an unnecessary forbearance and obstacle added in the way of Muslim children. Its not about not adding new rights, its about taking away rights that already existed.

It wasn't a right. It was a privilege.
The state is not hindering their ability to practice their religion. It merely isn't helping them to do so anymore.

Yes it is, because how is a Muslim child honestly going to be able to eat Halal food at a school canteen under this new policy? The child has to starve or break his religious codes. That is basically and effectively forcing him to override his deeply-held religious beliefs.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

It wasn't a right. It was a privilege.
The state is not hindering their ability to practice their religion. It merely isn't helping them to do so anymore.

Maybe you should start checking those to make sure everyone has some.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Wait, isn't turkey sausage actually cheaper than most pork products?

... wouldn't that mean the school was actually saving money by offering the alternative?

And is from what I understand a healthier alternative, it's almost like these Muslims are on to something...hmmm...nah.

Point in fact, Alex. Kosher and halal diets are indeed incredibly healthy.

[The Alexanderians]

And is from what I understand a healthier alternative, it's almost like these Muslims are on to something...hmmm...nah.

Point in fact, Alex. Kosher and halal diets are indeed incredibly healthy.

It's why my mom buys kosher products, you know in spite of the fact that's not a Star of David on my flag.

[Ostroeuropa]

It wasn't a right. It was a privilege.
The state is not hindering their ability to practice their religion. It merely isn't helping them to do so anymore.

Yes it is, because how is a Muslim child honestly going to be able to eat Halal food at a school canteen under this new policy? The child has to starve or break his religious codes. That is basically and effectively forcing him to override his deeply-held religious beliefs.

I honestly don't care if their religion makes them incapable of functioning in society as well as other people do.
However, you are more than welcome to argue for an alternative meal on secular grounds, as i've stated repeatedly.

The state isn't forcing them to do anything. It has merely ceased to assist them in practicing their religion. It hasn't decided to ban them from bringing their own food. It hasn't decided to demand they eat the pork. It hasn't decided to force them to do anything at all. It has merely ceased to assist them any further.

If people actually gave a fuck about these children, as i've gone over previously, they'd argue for a meal on secular grounds.
Instead they're constantly demanding the state accommodate a religion and use tax payer funds to assist people in being able to carry out their religious practices.
No.
Sorry. Not one inch. Not even going to consider it. It's rejected out of hand. And the french government agrees.

If these people gave a fuck about children, they'd unite with others and demand a secular alternative meal.

They don't really give a fuck. What they care about is having the state accomodate their religion. The children aren't just pawns of the far-right in this issue.

[Lavan Tiri]

Ok, let's back up here. The school was originally providing Halal meals. It was cheap, and of little cost to bear for the state. The government now wants the Halal meals removed. That seems to me like denying Muslims the ability for their children to exercise their religion. Pure and simple. You can draw logical extensions all you want but, at the end of the day, this was an unnecessary forbearance and obstacle added in the way of Muslim children. Its not about not adding new rights, its about taking away rights that already existed.

It wasn't a right. It was a privilege.
The state is not hindering their ability to practice their religion. It merely isn't helping them to do so anymore.

Muslims are forbidden from eating pork, though. So not only is this hindering the kid's ability to practice their religion, but also not feeding the fucking kids just because they aren't a fascistic pseudo-Christian.

[Galloism]

Wait, isn't turkey sausage actually cheaper than most pork products?

... wouldn't that mean the school was actually saving money by offering the alternative?

I don't really know, dear. I can check.

I thought maybe I'd do a quick and dirty comparison to see what a package of turkey sausage costs compares to pork sausage on wal-mart.com.

I think somebody went into our local wal-mart and bought everything. Every time I find a turkey sausage that I am going to use for comparison, and try to compare a pork sausage of the same weight and the same brand, it's out of stock and no price is shown.

[Galloism]

The state isn't forcing them to do anything. It has merely ceased to assist them in practicing their religion. It hasn't decided to ban them from bringing their own food.

Actually, gauthier posted a link earlier that seemed to imply that students were not allowed to bring their own food.

Didn't outright state it, but it seemed to imply it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't really know, dear. I can check.

I thought maybe I'd do a quick and dirty comparison to see what a package of turkey sausage costs compares to pork sausage on wal-mart.com.

I think somebody went into our local wal-mart and bought everything. Every time I find a turkey sausage that I am going to use for comparison, and try to compare a pork sausage of the same weight and the same brand, it's out of stock and no price is shown.

The South... it's pork sausage or we'll lynch you!

[Divitaen]

Yes it is, because how is a Muslim child honestly going to be able to eat Halal food at a school canteen under this new policy? The child has to starve or break his religious codes. That is basically and effectively forcing him to override his deeply-held religious beliefs.

I honestly don't care if their religion makes them incapable of functioning in society as well as other people do.
However, you are more than welcome to argue for an alternative meal on secular grounds, as i've stated repeatedly.

The state isn't forcing them to do anything. It has merely ceased to assist them in practicing their religion. It hasn't decided to ban them from bringing their own food. It hasn't decided to demand they eat the pork. It hasn't decided to force them to do anything at all. It has merely ceased to assist them any further.

If people actually gave a fuck about these children, as i've gone over previously, they'd argue for a meal on secular grounds.
Instead they're constantly demanding the state accommodate a religion and use tax payer funds to assist people in being able to carry out their religious practices.
No.
Sorry. Not one inch. Not even going to consider it. It's rejected out of hand. And the french government agrees.

If these people gave a fuck about children, they'd unite with others and demand a secular alternative meal.

They don't really give a fuck. What they care about is having the state accomodate their religion. The children aren't just pawns of the far-right in this issue.

I'm sorry then. I just see things differently. And to me, personally, I just can't imagine what a young French boy is going to do now with this policy, entering the school, believing very, very strongly in his god, and finding he must choose between his religion or eating something. I know the secular alternative meal is a possibility to be implemented, but just on the surface of it, from a prima facie perspective, does this sound moral to you? What do you think the Muslim boy should reasonably do? Leave his religion just like that?

[The Alexanderians]

It wasn't a right. It was a privilege.
The state is not hindering their ability to practice their religion. It merely isn't helping them to do so anymore.

Muslims are forbidden from eating pork, though. So not only is this hindering the kid's ability to practice their religion, but also not feeding the fucking kids just because they aren't a fascistic pseudo-Christian.

This is modern day France...even Christians are getting the shaft to a degree. Not as bad as Muslims mind you, still St. Joan is revolving in her grave at this crap.

[Ostroeuropa]

It wasn't a right. It was a privilege.
The state is not hindering their ability to practice their religion. It merely isn't helping them to do so anymore.

Muslims are forbidden from eating pork, though. So not only is this hindering the kid's ability to practice their religion, but also not feeding the fucking kids just because they aren't a fascistic pseudo-Christian.

some Jews aren't allowed to do basically anything on saturday.
Am I hindering a jews religious freedom if I tell him i'm not going to do menial tasks for him all day?

No. His god is hindering him. I'm merely not assisting.

Same here.

[Ostroeuropa]

I honestly don't care if their religion makes them incapable of functioning in society as well as other people do.
However, you are more than welcome to argue for an alternative meal on secular grounds, as i've stated repeatedly.

The state isn't forcing them to do anything. It has merely ceased to assist them in practicing their religion. It hasn't decided to ban them from bringing their own food. It hasn't decided to demand they eat the pork. It hasn't decided to force them to do anything at all. It has merely ceased to assist them any further.

If people actually gave a fuck about these children, as i've gone over previously, they'd argue for a meal on secular grounds.
Instead they're constantly demanding the state accommodate a religion and use tax payer funds to assist people in being able to carry out their religious practices.
No.
Sorry. Not one inch. Not even going to consider it. It's rejected out of hand. And the french government agrees.

If these people gave a fuck about children, they'd unite with others and demand a secular alternative meal.

They don't really give a fuck. What they care about is having the state accomodate their religion. The children aren't just pawns of the far-right in this issue.

I'm sorry then. I just see things differently. And to me, personally, I just can't imagine what a young French boy is going to do now with this policy, entering the school, believing very, very strongly in his god, and finding he must choose between his religion or eating something. I know the secular alternative meal is a possibility to be implemented, but just on the surface of it, from a prima facie perspective, does this sound moral to you? What do you think the Muslim boy should reasonably do? Leave his religion just like that?

He should gather with other students and demand an alternative meal for secular reasons.

[Galloism]

I thought maybe I'd do a quick and dirty comparison to see what a package of turkey sausage costs compares to pork sausage on wal-mart.com.

I think somebody went into our local wal-mart and bought everything. Every time I find a turkey sausage that I am going to use for comparison, and try to compare a pork sausage of the same weight and the same brand, it's out of stock and no price is shown.

The South... it's pork sausage or we'll lynch you!

Ok, amazon's working better.

Also, apparently you can buy sausage off of amazon.

Turkey Sausage appears slightly cheaper than pork sausage - so the school made this change in order to spend more money, albeit a small amount.

http://www.amazon.com/Hickory-Farms-Tur ... 123VNTR6SC

http://www.amazon.com/Hickory-Farms-Sum ... 123VNTR6SC

[The Alexanderians]

I'm sorry then. I just see things differently. And to me, personally, I just can't imagine what a young French boy is going to do now with this policy, entering the school, believing very, very strongly in his god, and finding he must choose between his religion or eating something. I know the secular alternative meal is a possibility to be implemented, but just on the surface of it, from a prima facie perspective, does this sound moral to you? What do you think the Muslim boy should reasonably do? Leave his religion just like that?

He should gather with other students and demand an alternative meal for secular reasons.

Why? The religious ones are just as good.

[The Alexanderians]

The South... it's pork sausage or we'll lynch you!

Ok, amazon's working better.

Also, apparently you can buy sausage off of amazon.

Turkey Sausage appears slightly cheaper than pork sausage - so the school made this change in order to spend more money, albeit a small amount.

http://www.amazon.com/Hickory-Farms-Tur ... 123VNTR6SC

http://www.amazon.com/Hickory-Farms-Sum ... 123VNTR6SC

That disturbs me O_o

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The South... it's pork sausage or we'll lynch you!

Ok, amazon's working better.

Also, apparently you can buy sausage off of amazon.

Turkey Sausage appears slightly cheaper than pork sausage - so the school made this change in order to spend more money, albeit a small amount.

http://www.amazon.com/Hickory-Farms-Tur ... 123VNTR6SC

http://www.amazon.com/Hickory-Farms-Sum ... 123VNTR6SC

You would need a price comparison in euros, then.

[Ostroeuropa]

He should gather with other students and demand an alternative meal for secular reasons.

Why? The religious ones are just as good.

Whether they are just as good or not is a matter of opinion.
What isn't a matter of opinion is whether or not they are as secular.

[The Alexanderians]

Why? The religious ones are just as good.

Whether they are just as good or not is a matter of opinion.
What isn't a matter of opinion is whether or not they are as secular.

Why should purely secular matter?

[Ostroeuropa]

Whether they are just as good or not is a matter of opinion.
What isn't a matter of opinion is whether or not they are as secular.

Why should purely secular matter?

Because france is a secular country.