"Pork or Nothing" : How Politics intervenes children's lunch

[Galloism]

Why woud this even occur to someone? Like, who wakes up one morning, and thinks, "Hmm, this town sure has a bunch'a dirty Muslims crawlin' 'round. How's bout I starve 'em outta here! THAT'LL SHOW THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS AND THEIR FUCKING MOHAMMED! HEE-HEE!"

Seriously, dick move, some French people. Dick. Move.

Some people wake up early just to think about how to fuck with people today.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Or how does that even conduce to proper societal assimilation? Something I hear several posters here talking about and yet, they're very much in favor of this discriminatory policy. A policy, I might add, that is already causing cracks.

How do you promote assimilation with oppressive policies?

I'm not in favor of there not being an alternative, nor is valystria, as we have repeated dozens and dozens of times.
No matter how much you stomp your feet and say otherwise, what we are opposed to is a demand for an alternative meal based on religious grounds.
We're fine with secular rationales to provide an alternative meal.

"We should provide variety in case some students don't want pork."
-Fine by me.

"We should provide variety because MOOZLEMS GAWD DEMANDS IT."
-Fuck that, not one inch. No funds, get out.

Good thing that latter wasn't really the issue then, isn't it?

[Divitaen]

Punishing is a better description, because that's exactly what this is.

Removing unearned religious privileges is not punishment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdqoIoxwTnY

13 seconds.

The courthouse is an official state institution, and putting up a religious symbol is unacceptable because that's a religious imposition on non-Christians who enter the courthouse. In contrast, Muslims weren't asking for Muslim symbols to be hung out in the criteria. They just want to be able to have a Halal meal. Its not hard, and its not an imposition of religious values.

[Divitaen]

Why woud this even occur to someone? Like, who wakes up one morning, and thinks, "Hmm, this town sure has a bunch'a dirty Muslims crawlin' 'round. How's bout I starve 'em outta here! THAT'LL SHOW THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS AND THEIR FUCKING MOHAMMED! HEE-HEE!"

Seriously, dick move, some French people. Dick. Move.

Some people want to mess around with minorities.

[The Alexanderians]

Or how does that even conduce to proper societal assimilation? Something I hear several posters here talking about and yet, they're very much in favor of this discriminatory policy. A policy, I might add, that is already causing cracks.

How do you promote assimilation with oppressive policies?

I'm not in favor of there not being an alternative, nor is valystria, as we have repeated dozens and dozens of times.
No matter how much you stomp your feet and say otherwise, what we are opposed to is a demand for an alternative meal based on religious grounds.
We're fine with secular rationales to provide an alternative meal.

"We should provide variety in case some students don't want pork."
-Fine by me.

"We should provide variety because MOOZLEMS GAWD DEMANDS IT."
-Fuck that, not one inch. No funds, get out.

I'm sure though if were diverting funds away from feminist activities then this would suddenly be met with a little less opposition.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Or how does that even conduce to proper societal assimilation? Something I hear several posters here talking about and yet, they're very much in favor of this discriminatory policy. A policy, I might add, that is already causing cracks.

How do you promote assimilation with oppressive policies?

I'm not in favor of there not being an alternative, nor is valystria, as we have repeated dozens and dozens of times.
No matter how much you stomp your feet and say otherwise, what we are opposed to is a demand for an alternative meal based on religious grounds.
We're fine with secular rationales to provide an alternative meal.

"We should provide variety in case some students don't want pork."
-Fine by me.

"We should provide variety because MOOZLEMS GAWD DEMANDS IT."
-Fuck that, not one inch. No funds, get out.

Except as it has been explained to you and Valystria, several times, France is not doing anything about secularism. This is not about secularism. No matter how many times you stomp your own feet and think it is. It is not. It has been showed to you already, over and over again. This policy is not about secularism.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not in favor of there not being an alternative, nor is valystria, as we have repeated dozens and dozens of times.
No matter how much you stomp your feet and say otherwise, what we are opposed to is a demand for an alternative meal based on religious grounds.
We're fine with secular rationales to provide an alternative meal.

"We should provide variety in case some students don't want pork."
-Fine by me.

"We should provide variety because MOOZLEMS GAWD DEMANDS IT."
-Fuck that, not one inch. No funds, get out.

Good thing that latter wasn't really the issue then, isn't it?

People in this thread have repeatedly said an alternative meal has to be provided because we need to help muslims practice their faith.

[Divitaen]

Why not? Do you realise how hard it must be for Muslim children if they are given "pork or nothing" options? How is that fair or treating them with justice and dignity? You are basically making it incredibly and unnecessarily difficult for Muslim children to practice and exercise their faith.

And if their religion demanded some other arbitrary nonsense that required us to fund them?

Oh, oh our religion says we can't walk on sundays, but we have to go food shopping. If you take away our state funded chauffeurs, you're oppressing us.

No.
Fuck em.
No state funds to accomodate religion. It's not our fault if your god apparently wants to cripple your ability to function in society.

Excuse me? An argument can be made that state-funded chauffeurs are expensive. Meals without pork in schools are not expensive at all. We do what we can. Just because we can't do everything doesn't mean we should do NOTHING.

[Galloism]

I'm not in favor of there not being an alternative, nor is valystria, as we have repeated dozens and dozens of times.
No matter how much you stomp your feet and say otherwise, what we are opposed to is a demand for an alternative meal based on religious grounds.
We're fine with secular rationales to provide an alternative meal.

"We should provide variety in case some students don't want pork."
-Fine by me.

"We should provide variety because MOOZLEMS GAWD DEMANDS IT."
-Fuck that, not one inch. No funds, get out.

I'm sure though if were diverting funds away from feminist activities then this would suddenly be met with a little less opposition.

Heh.

[The Alexanderians]

And if their religion demanded some other arbitrary nonsense that required us to fund them?

Oh, oh our religion says we can't walk on sundays, but we have to go food shopping. If you take away our state funded chauffeurs, you're oppressing us.

No.
Fuck em.
No state funds to accomodate religion. It's not our fault if your god apparently wants to cripple your ability to function in society.

Excuse me? An argument can be made that state-funded chauffeurs are expensive. Meals without pork in schools are not expensive at all. We do what we can. Just because we can't do everything doesn't mean we should do NOTHING.

Silly don't you know? It HAS to be in black and white! Nothing else will do.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Why woud this even occur to someone? Like, who wakes up one morning, and thinks, "Hmm, this town sure has a bunch'a dirty Muslims crawlin' 'round. How's bout I starve 'em outta here! THAT'LL SHOW THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS AND THEIR FUCKING MOHAMMED! HEE-HEE!"

Seriously, dick move, some French people. Dick. Move.

Some people wake up early just to think about how to fuck with people today.

The last time my son said something about how 'some people just want to watch the world burn, I got a concerned letter from his teacher making sure everything was 'ok'. Given the recent bomb threats they'd had, I understood, but yeesh. >_>

Been trying to teach son that not everything can or should be a game ref. He replied with a sigh and a smile that 'this is why we can't have nice things'. I can't help but think some of that is somehow relevant here ...

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Excuse me? An argument can be made that state-funded chauffeurs are expensive. Meals without pork in schools are not expensive at all. We do what we can. Just because we can't do everything doesn't mean we should do NOTHING.

Silly don't you know? It HAS to be in black and white! Nothing else will do.

Yup. And when we think in terms of black and white, we fucking miss the point.

[Divitaen]

Excuse me? An argument can be made that state-funded chauffeurs are expensive. Meals without pork in schools are not expensive at all. We do what we can. Just because we can't do everything doesn't mean we should do NOTHING.

Silly don't you know? It HAS to be in black and white! Nothing else will do.

Yeah exactly. We can't fund state-funded chauffeurs so fuck it let's be a dick to every religious group.

[Galloism]

Some people wake up early just to think about how to fuck with people today.

The last time my son said something about how 'some people just want to watch the world burn, I got a concerned letter from his teacher making sure everything was 'ok'. Given the recent bomb threats they'd had, I understood, but yeesh. >_>

Been trying to teach son that not everything can or should be a game ref. He replied with a sigh and a smile that 'this is why we can't have nice things'. I can't help but think some of that is somehow relevant here ...

Nationstater in the making there.

[The Alexanderians]

Silly don't you know? It HAS to be in black and white! Nothing else will do.

Yup. And when we think in terms of black and white, we fucking miss the point.

I mean we need to remember the reds and yellows too!

[Lavan Tiri]

Some people wake up early just to think about how to fuck with people today.

The last time my son said something about how 'some people just want to watch the world burn, I got a concerned letter from his teacher making sure everything was 'ok'. Given the recent bomb threats they'd had, I understood, but yeesh. >_>

Been trying to teach son that not everything can or should be a game ref. He replied with a sigh and a smile that 'this is why we can't have nice things'. I can't help but think some of that is somehow relevant here ...

But this isn't a discussion about birth control advertisements

Or Heath Ledger.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Yup. And when we think in terms of black and white, we fucking miss the point.

I mean we need to remember the reds and yellows too!

And all them grays!

[Ostroeuropa]

Silly don't you know? It HAS to be in black and white! Nothing else will do.

Yeah exactly. We can't fund state-funded chauffeurs so fuck it let's be a dick to every religious group.

...
"We'll spend money on your religious demands, but not that other religion because we consider that one to be not practical. But we're totes neutral on religion."

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Removing unearned religious privileges is not punishment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdqoIoxwTnY

13 seconds.

The courthouse is an official state institution, and putting up a religious symbol is unacceptable because that's a religious imposition on non-Christians who enter the courthouse. In contrast, Muslims weren't asking for Muslim symbols to be hung out in the criteria. They just want to be able to have a Halal meal. Its not hard, and its not an imposition of religious values.

Le sigh. Go back and fuckin' read. NO ONE WAS ASKING FOR HALAL MEALS. An alternative had always been provided, and they were upset that due to political agendas, that option was being denied them, and causing problems for their kids. Even the teacher quoted there agreed with that sentiment.

[The Alexanderians]

The last time my son said something about how 'some people just want to watch the world burn, I got a concerned letter from his teacher making sure everything was 'ok'. Given the recent bomb threats they'd had, I understood, but yeesh. >_>

Been trying to teach son that not everything can or should be a game ref. He replied with a sigh and a smile that 'this is why we can't have nice things'. I can't help but think some of that is somehow relevant here ...

Nationstater in the making there.

Hell even the phrase "Watch the world burn" sounds like crap we'd say. Dready seems to have raised him right.

[Divitaen]

Yeah exactly. We can't fund state-funded chauffeurs so fuck it let's be a dick to every religious group.

...
"We'll spend money on your religious demands, but not that other religion because we consider that one to be not practical. But we're totes neutral on religion."

Ok, let's back up here. The school was originally providing Halal meals. It was cheap, and of little cost to bear for the state. The government now wants the Halal meals removed. That seems to me like denying Muslims the ability for their children to exercise their religion. Pure and simple. You can draw logical extensions all you want but, at the end of the day, this was an unnecessary forbearance and obstacle added in the way of Muslim children. Its not about not adding new rights, its about taking away rights that already existed.

[Galloism]

Yeah exactly. We can't fund state-funded chauffeurs so fuck it let's be a dick to every religious group.

...
"We'll spend money on your religious demands, but not that other religion because we consider that one to be not practical. But we're totes neutral on religion."

Tends to be the case here in the states.

We only allow accommodations that are practical given the circumstances present in the situation described.

Which is why you can be exempt from saluting the flag no matter what the school rules say, but they can't be required to let you sing a Beyonce song as loud as you can in its entirety at the beginning of every period, even if that's your religious belief.

[The Alexanderians]

Yeah exactly. We can't fund state-funded chauffeurs so fuck it let's be a dick to every religious group.

...
"We'll spend money on your religious demands, but not that other religion because we consider that one to be not practical. But we're totes neutral on religion."

See you're getting it now. That's the height of neutrality.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The courthouse is an official state institution, and putting up a religious symbol is unacceptable because that's a religious imposition on non-Christians who enter the courthouse. In contrast, Muslims weren't asking for Muslim symbols to be hung out in the criteria. They just want to be able to have a Halal meal. Its not hard, and its not an imposition of religious values.

Le sigh. Go back and fuckin' read. NO ONE WAS ASKING FOR HALAL MEALS. An alternative had always been provided, and they were upset that due to political agendas, that option was being denied them, and causing problems for their kids. Even the teacher quoted there agreed with that sentiment.

Yeah. What was being done in these cases was provide turkey sausage. Now neither that nor a vegetarian alternative will be provided in the schools that fall under towns where National Front have the forefront in power.

[Ostroeuropa]

...
"We'll spend money on your religious demands, but not that other religion because we consider that one to be not practical. But we're totes neutral on religion."

Ok, let's back up here. The school was originally providing Halal meals. It was cheap, and of little cost to bear for the state. The government now wants the Halal meals removed. That seems to me like denying Muslims the ability for their children to exercise their religion. Pure and simple. You can draw logical extensions all you want but, at the end of the day, this was an unnecessary forbearance and obstacle added in the way of Muslim children. Its not about not adding new rights, its about taking away rights that already existed.

It wasn't a right. It was a privilege.
The state is not hindering their ability to practice their religion. It merely isn't helping them to do so anymore.