The NationStates Feminist Thread II

[Des-Bal]

But this is what causes problems with consent. The whole yes means yes thing means that the only acceptable form of consent is a straightforward yes. But if someone, man or woman, is more subtle about wanting sex and would balk at the question "would you like to have sex?" how can you ever meet the yes means yes definition of consent?

It doesn't matter. Yes means yes is not about communication or preventing rape, it's about making it easier to punish offenders by ensuring anyone accused of rape can be easily convicted and trusting that nobody gets accused if they aren't guilty. For all it's worth yes means yes may as well require a signed contract with two witnesses, nobody cares what you're supposed to do just that you probably haven't done it.

[SUNTHREIT]

[b]I think rapists should be castrated, not chemically but with a rusty knife.
Do all the right-minded feminist womyn and male allies agree with me or what?
I think that such a punishment would make rapists much more hesitant to rape than if they would just be given a jail sentence, and the psychological aspect of it helps men control their toxic masculinity.

*** Warned For Trolling And Advocating Violence. ***

Apologies. I thought it was just advocating death that is not allowed.
Also I am not trolling, you are mistaken.

[Wallenburg]

But this is what causes problems with consent. The whole yes means yes thing means that the only acceptable form of consent is a straightforward yes. But if someone, man or woman, is more subtle about wanting sex and would balk at the question "would you like to have sex?" how can you ever meet the yes means yes definition of consent?

It doesn't matter. Yes means yes is not about communication or preventing rape, it's about making it easier to punish offenders by ensuring anyone accused of rape can be easily convicted and trusting that nobody gets accused if they aren't guilty. For all it's worth yes means yes may as well require a signed contract with two witnesses, nobody cares what you're supposed to do just that you probably haven't done it.

If you can't be bothered to ask your partner if they actually want to have sex, you're doing something wrong.

[Des-Bal]

If you can't be bothered to ask your partner if they actually want to have sex, you're doing something wrong.

If you're trying to tell other people how to have sex you're doing something wrong. There are people who don't want to talk, there are people who being blunt kills the moment, there are people who may find constantly affirming consent in the nebulously defined way the practice requires distracting and off putting. It's not about "bother" or "how hard it is" it's about butting into people's private affairs to abridge due process and nothing else.

[Mattopilos]

*** Warned For Trolling And Advocating Violence. ***

Apologies. I thought it was just advocating death that is not allowed.
Also I am not trolling, you are mistaken.

Your postion still might come off as VERY insensitive, so it is no surprise it tripped the 'mod alarm'. If you are ever going to advocate for such a thing, you REALLY need a good reason for it and need to refute non-violent means beforehand.

[SUNTHREIT]

Apologies. I thought it was just advocating death that is not allowed.
Also I am not trolling, you are mistaken.

Your postion still might come off as VERY insensitive, so it is no surprise it tripped the 'mod alarm'. If you are ever going to advocate for such a thing, you REALLY need a good reason for it and need to refute non-violent means beforehand.

It's good to be insensitive on the big issues IMO.
The laws of nature are insensitive, and we are organic creatures all the same. Man is but a civilised animal at the end of the day, after all.

[Wallenburg]

If you can't be bothered to ask your partner if they actually want to have sex, you're doing something wrong.

If you're trying to tell other people how to have sex you're doing something wrong. There are people who don't want to talk, there are people who being blunt kills the moment, there are people who may find constantly affirming consent in the nebulously defined way the practice requires distracting and off putting. It's not about "bother" or "how hard it is" it's about butting into people's private affairs to abridge due process and nothing else.

I didn't realize that it is inappropriate for me to criticize rape.

[Mattopilos]

Your postion still might come off as VERY insensitive, so it is no surprise it tripped the 'mod alarm'. If you are ever going to advocate for such a thing, you REALLY need a good reason for it and need to refute non-violent means beforehand.

It's good to be insensitive on the big issues IMO.
The laws of nature are insensitive, and we are organic creatures all the same. Man is but a civilised animal at the end of the day, after all.

No, it's good to be logical. Jumping the gun and going for the most malicious route may satisfy your little grey cells, but it doesn't mean it is the best way, nor will it necessarily produce the best results.

[Costa Fierro]

Only if you're unattractive.

And that's the stupid part.

And really, unattractive people should know their place.

Because attractiveness is skin deep...(tbh I can't believe I'm arguing against this but there we go).

They are unattractive for genetic reasons, so society is better off if they do.

Oh noes, someone who might be unattractive might have something nice to say for a person. Society would literally unravel. Presumably virgins should be made fun of too, right?

I have a younger sister, and if any short, balding, fat or ugly man called her beautiful they'd be in some trouble for making her feel uncomfortable.

So basically you want your sister to be raised with no respect for other people?

Slavery was legal.

And? Are you saying calling women beautiful should be illegal too?

Nothing they said suggested otherwise.

You mean "it's up to me to make sure she doesn't bolt" doesn't sound like someone trying to tell someone else how to approach a horse for a first time?

Really? How is it not?

Because a considerable amount of women aren't direct. They just drop hints and expect men to pick up on them, or just simply don't get that men aren't that complicated in terms of what we want and how we want it. Not only that, but the analogy that men have to handle women in that they're like skittish horses isn't completely out of touch. Women are basically told that all men want to rape them and so they need to constantly be alert all the time which makes it virtually impossible to get anything done with regards to actually making a decent connection, because you're constantly trying to portray yourself as harmless to a person that already thinks you're going to throw her into a windowless van and rape her in a forest somewhere.

Your narrative--including that women cannot empathize with men and vice versa--is so detached from reality that it hardly even makes sense as a fiction.

I sure as hell can't put myself in a woman's shoes and I don't expect her to be able to do the same with me. I can't expect you to empathize with someone with a developmental disability in the same way I can't put myself in your shoes and experience whatever struggles you experience. I can't understand what women go through because I'm not one.

I think it's because you have fuck-all with regard to actual proof, but that's just my personal theory.

Why should I bother substantiating when you're going to scream "that's bullshit" anyway?

[Des-Bal]

I didn't realize that it is inappropriate for me to criticize rape.

Yes means yes treats rape as a social faux pas rather than a crime one person commits against another, that particular critique is entirely inappropriate.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It doesn't matter. Yes means yes is not about communication or preventing rape, it's about making it easier to punish offenders by ensuring anyone accused of rape can be easily convicted and trusting that nobody gets accused if they aren't guilty. For all it's worth yes means yes may as well require a signed contract with two witnesses, nobody cares what you're supposed to do just that you probably haven't done it.

If you can't be bothered to ask your partner if they actually want to have sex, you're doing something wrong.

I don't think I've ever verbally asked if my partner wants to have sex, that's such a buzzkill. It just kinda happens and I don't think I've done anything wrong.

[Des-Bal]

I don't think I've ever verbally asked if my partner wants to have sex, that's such a buzzkill. It just kinda happens and I don't think I've done anything wrong.

The idea is that whether or not you're guilty of rape has very little to do with whether or not you committed rape. Yes means yes serves no real purpose except to ensure that if someone is accused of rape it is very easy to convict them.

[Wallenburg]

Slavery was legal.

And?

So you just said that slavery was appropriate before it was made illegal.

Are you saying calling women beautiful should be illegal too?

Of course not. Actually read my post.

Nothing they said suggested otherwise.

You mean "it's up to me to make sure she doesn't bolt" doesn't sound like someone trying to tell someone else how to approach a horse for a first time?

They didn't say that. Strawman, try again.

Really? How is it not?

Because a considerable amount of women aren't direct. They just drop hints and expect men to pick up on them, or just simply don't get that men aren't that complicated in terms of what we want and how we want it.

I didn't realize all men had the same sexual preferences.

Women are basically told that all men want to rape them and so they need to constantly be alert all the time which makes it virtually impossible to get anything done with regards to actually making a decent connection, because you're constantly trying to portray yourself as harmless to a person that already thinks you're going to throw her into a windowless van and rape her in a forest somewhere.

What country do you live in? Honduras?

Your narrative--including that women cannot empathize with men and vice versa--is so detached from reality that it hardly even makes sense as a fiction.

I sure as hell can't put myself in a woman's shoes and I don't expect her to be able to do the same with me. I can't expect you to empathize with someone with a developmental disability in the same way I can't put myself in your shoes and experience whatever struggles you experience. I can't understand what women go through because I'm not one.

The vast majority of people don't have to be identical to someone to have a human connection to them. Those that do tend to suffer from disorders affecting social interaction.

I think it's because you have fuck-all with regard to actual proof, but that's just my personal theory.

Why should I bother substantiating when you're going to scream "that's bullshit" anyway?

Why should I bother encouraging your arguments with my responses when you will never provide any evidence, and will just make wild assumptions about myself and others?

[Wallenburg]

If you can't be bothered to ask your partner if they actually want to have sex, you're doing something wrong.

I don't think I've ever verbally asked if my partner wants to have sex, that's such a buzzkill. It just kinda happens and I don't think I've done anything wrong.

Do you use nonverbal cues that you both know mean that you consent?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

*** Warned For Trolling And Advocating Violence. ***

Apologies. I thought it was just advocating death that is not allowed.
Also I am not trolling, you are mistaken.

If you wish to appeal this decision, then you may do so either in Moderation or through a Getting Help Request. This is not the appropriate forum to discuss the matter. Thanks for understanding.

[Costa Fierro]

So you just said that slavery was appropriate before it was made illegal.

Given the social views of the time, of course.

Of course not. Actually read my post.

I did read your post. And came to that conclusion.

They didn't say that.

They did. You're going to have to come up with something other than "nuh uh".

I didn't realize all men had the same sexual preferences.

Not all men. Obviously homosexuals do not. And asexuals.

What country do you live in? Honduras?

Mordor.

[Old Tyrannia]

Please don't be like a disgusting ablest bigot, and respect other people's emotions and stuff. Some of use would like to have a safe time when on the internet and stuff. So the least people could do is put a trigger warning before saying certain, triggering stuff, and things, like right?
I don't understand how it's a hard thing to do like, can't you like just respect other people, and people who have like PTSD? I don't get why you people feel the need to act like so privileged.
Okay thanks, I'm just a bit like shaken and triggered, and stuff. So like I just want people to more inclusive and stuff. If you think I'm coming off as like rude or something, you're probably just like super privileged to not have to understand what it's like being triggered and having PTSD. Just be like a normal human and stuff, and like consider people's emotions, not too hard, right?

(Trigger warning)

"Greetings!

I am sending you this message to encourage you to join RIGHT TO LIFE, a region dedicated to the protection of unborn children. We are the premier region representing the pro-life movement on NationStates; and, if you support the rights of all human beings, you'll fit right in.

Founded in June 2011, our close-knit community has an active offsite board, a well-known army, a competitive but friendly system of political parties, a growing economy, an experienced news division, and an amazing map. Elections are held every two months; and our players come from a wide spectrum of national, political, and religious (and nonreligious) backgrounds.

In the world, there are more than 40 million abortions each year. About 90 percent of them are performed for social or economic reasons. These procedures are completely unjustified. No social or economic factor warrants the destruction of an innocent life. In the more difficult cases, such as rape, region members are free to form and adhere to their own opinions.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask them anonymously in our chat room.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/NS_Right_to_L ... /chatroom/

I sincerely hope you choose to make RIGHT TO LIFE your new home here on the game.

To move to our region, all you have to do is click the button below. "


Fuck this sexist pig! Women should have rights!

Triggrious: *** Warned for trolling and spamming. *** This is not the place to share recruitment telegrams, and referring to people as "sexist pigs" and "disgusting ablest [sic] bigots" is not acceptable conduct.

[Wallenburg]

So you just said that slavery was appropriate before it was made illegal.

Given the social views of the time, of course.

Wow. I see. I also imagine you find male rape appropriate where it is legal, in part or in full.

Of course not. Actually read my post.

I did read your post. And came to that conclusion.

That's rather unfortunate.

They didn't say that.

They did. You're going to have to come up with something other than "nuh uh".

Well, you are lying to me straight, rather than trying to hide your deception.

I didn't realize all men had the same sexual preferences.

Not all men. Obviously homosexuals do not. And asexuals.

But beyond that, all heterosexual men share that elbow fetish I have, right?

What country do you live in? Honduras?

Mordor.

That would explain the constant fear of rape.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I don't think I've ever verbally asked if my partner wants to have sex, that's such a buzzkill. It just kinda happens and I don't think I've done anything wrong.

Do you use nonverbal cues that you both know mean that you consent?

I guess yeah, I dunno I've just always found the whole verbal cues thing to be silly. That would ruin the mood for me.

[Wallenburg]

Do you use nonverbal cues that you both know mean that you consent?

I guess yeah, I dunno I've just always found the whole verbal cues thing to be silly. That would ruin the mood for me.

I'd think that someone stripping themselves and me naked and then thrusting on top of me without warning would be more likely to ruin the mood, but if it works for you, and you both know that the other enjoys it, I won't judge.

[Costa Fierro]

Wow. I see. I also imagine you find male rape appropriate where it is legal, in part or in full.

For the sake of the argument, yes.

Well, you are lying to me straight, rather than trying to hide your deception.

Why would I lie to you?

But beyond that, all heterosexual men share that elbow fetish I have, right?

No one has an "elbow fetish". Elbows are not an attractive nor are they an erotic part of the body.

[Mattopilos]

Wow. I see. I also imagine you find male rape appropriate where it is legal, in part or in full.

For the sake of the argument, yes.

Well, you are lying to me straight, rather than trying to hide your deception.

Why would I lie to you?

But beyond that, all heterosexual men share that elbow fetish I have, right?

No one has an "elbow fetish". Elbows are not an attractive nor are they an erotic part of the body.

All I am getting from this is you would follow a law to the letter. That is sad.

[PaNTuXIa]

I think rapists should be castrated, not chemically but with a rusty knife.
Do all the right-minded feminist womyn and male allies agree with me or what?
I think that such a punishment would make rapists much more hesitant to rape than if they would just be given a jail sentence, and the psychological aspect of it helps men control their toxic masculinity.

I really hope ideas like that die out in the next century. It's barbaric.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I think rapists should be castrated, not chemically but with a rusty knife.
Do all the right-minded feminist womyn and male allies agree with me or what?
I think that such a punishment would make rapists much more hesitant to rape than if they would just be given a jail sentence, and the psychological aspect of it helps men control their toxic masculinity.

You may want to cover that up, it could result in a warning or worse.

[PaNTuXIa]

You may want to cover that up, it could result in a warning or worse.

I edited it.