The NationStates Feminist Thread II

[Philjia]

Do you have a link to the study itself (preferably english translated) so I don't have to hunt around? Specificity provides accuracy, and I'd like to cite some of these wide and vague questions that probably every person on earth could answer "yes" to.

No English translation around, sorry, but here is said study anyway.
As for the questions, I can give you a rough translation from French to english of what is considered as "Harcèlement sexiste" / "Sexual bullying" (not sure of this one but that's what it means literally at least) by this study and thus included as being a form of victimisation of women :

Sifflement : whistling
Commentaire sur le physique, le comportement, la tenue vestimentaire : Remark on one's physique, behavior or clothing
Présence envahissante et opprimante (jambesécartées, obstruction du passage, etc.) : Invading and oppressing presence (manspreading, blocking one's way, etc)
Regard insistant (« déshabiller » du regard) : Insistent gaze (mentally undressing someone)
Question intrusive sur la vie sexuelle de la victime ou “confidence” de l'auteur sur sa propre vie sexuelle : Intrusive questions on one's sexual life or "Pride" of the perpetrator of his own one.
Invitation insistante : Insistent invitation/request
Injure public : Insult in a public place
Menace : Threat

It's on the page 14 in case you want to check it up.

...Would it be insensitive to suggest that if you're on French public transport those are all likely to happen at some point?

[Galloism]

No English translation around, sorry, but here is said study anyway.
As for the questions, I can give you a rough translation from French to english of what is considered as "Harcèlement sexiste" / "Sexual bullying" (not sure of this one but that's what it means literally at least) by this study and thus included as being a form of victimisation of women :

Sifflement : whistling
Commentaire sur le physique, le comportement, la tenue vestimentaire : Remark on one's physique, behavior or clothing
Présence envahissante et opprimante (jambesécartées, obstruction du passage, etc.) : Invading and oppressing presence (manspreading, blocking one's way, etc)
Regard insistant (« déshabiller » du regard) : Insistent gaze (mentally undressing someone)
Question intrusive sur la vie sexuelle de la victime ou “confidence” de l'auteur sur sa propre vie sexuelle : Intrusive questions on one's sexual life or "Pride" of the perpetrator of his own one.
Invitation insistante : Insistent invitation/request
Injure public : Insult in a public place
Menace : Threat

It's on the page 14 in case you want to check it up.

...Would it be insensitive to suggest that if you're on French public transport those are all likely to happen at some point?

I love the "remark on one's physique, behavior, or clothing".

So if a guy is "manspreading" and she told him he was being an ass for taking up too much room, they both sexually bullied each other.

Sheesh, get a room!

[Lady Scylla]

...Would it be insensitive to suggest that if you're on French public transport those are all likely to happen at some point?

I love the "remark on one's physique, behavior, or clothing".

So if a guy is "manspreading" and she told him he was being an ass for taking up too much room, they both sexually bullied each other.

Sheesh, get a room!

But women can't sexually bully a man since men have all the power.

[Galloism]

I love the "remark on one's physique, behavior, or clothing".

So if a guy is "manspreading" and she told him he was being an ass for taking up too much room, they both sexually bullied each other.

Sheesh, get a room!

But women can't sexually bully a man since men have all the power.

I'm going to look at you so you can cower in fear at my overwhelming power.

But we're equals, you know.

[Lady Scylla]

But women can't sexually bully a man since men have all the power.

I'm going to look at you so you can cower in fear at my overwhelming power.

But we're equals, you know.

According to Chess I should run in fear because you might rape me.

[Galloism]

I'm going to look at you so you can cower in fear at my overwhelming power.

But we're equals, you know.

According to Chess I should run in fear because you might rape me.

I'm much more of a "take off your hand with a lightsaber before making dynastic power offerings" man.

[Lady Scylla]

According to Chess I should run in fear because you might rape me.

I'm much more of a "take off your hand with a lightsaber before making dynastic power offerings" man.

Peecha chakka no wookie boonowa tweepi solo? Ho ho hooo

[Aelex]

...Would it be insensitive to suggest that if you're on French public transport those are all likely to happen at some point?

In Paris maybe. But in the rest of France? Not, really no. I've been taking the métro (subway) at least two time a day, five day a week, nine months a year for the past six years in the second biggest city of France and I've witnessed very, very few people who acted as douchebags there.
I mean, there is a fuck lot of littering (especially the free newspaper such as the 20 minute or Metro) that people just throw on the ground once they finished reading them but, even at rush hours, people still apologize when they run into you, will help you if you fall on the ground, get stuck in the automated doors or just have a disability in general and even willingly give up their seat to you if you're a pregnant woman, and old person or simply look very sick.
Hell, if you forget your metro pass or lose your ticket, you're even sure to find someone that will let you to go through the barriers along him!

I really don't understand where this myth of "French people are rude" came from.

[Galloism]

...Would it be insensitive to suggest that if you're on French public transport those are all likely to happen at some point?

In Paris maybe. But in the rest of France? Not, really no. I've been taking the métro (subway) at least two time a day, five day a week, nine months a year for the past six years in the second biggest city of France and I've been witnessed very, very few people who acted as douchebags there.
I mean, there is a fuck lot of littering (especially the free newspaper such as the 20 minute or Metro) but, even at rush hours, people still apologize when they run into you, help you if you fall on the ground, get stuck in the automated doors or just have a disability in general and even willingly give up their seat to you if you're a pregnant woman, and old person or simply look very sick.
Hell, if you forget your metro pass or lose your ticket, you're even sure to find someone that will let you to go through the barriers along him!

I really don't understand where this myth of "French people are rude" came from.

Because many French people are rude to Americans we own pretty much all the media?

Or is that the Jews, I always forget.

[Sanctissima]

...Would it be insensitive to suggest that if you're on French public transport those are all likely to happen at some point?

In Paris maybe. But in the rest of France? Not, really no. I've been taking the métro (subway) at least two time a day, five day a week, nine months a year for the past six years in the second biggest city of France and I've witnessed very, very few people who acted as douchebags there.
I mean, there is a fuck lot of littering (especially the free newspaper such as the 20 minute or Metro) that people just throw on the ground once they finished reading them but, even at rush hours, people still apologize when they run into you, will help you if you fall on the ground, get stuck in the automated doors or just have a disability in general and even willingly give up their seat to you if you're a pregnant woman, and old person or simply look very sick.
Hell, if you forget your metro pass or lose your ticket, you're even sure to find someone that will let you to go through the barriers along him!

I really don't understand where this myth of "French people are rude" came from.

The age-old expression sums it up:

"The world hates the French, the French hate the Parisians, the Parisians hate themselves"

[Philjia]

...Would it be insensitive to suggest that if you're on French public transport those are all likely to happen at some point?

In Paris maybe. But in the rest of France? Not, really no. I've been taking the métro (subway) at least two time a day, five day a week, nine months a year for the past six years in the second biggest city of France and I've witnessed very, very few people who acted as douchebags there.
I mean, there is a fuck lot of littering (especially the free newspaper such as the 20 minute or Metro) that people just throw on the ground once they finished reading them but, even at rush hours, people still apologize when they run into you, will help you if you fall on the ground, get stuck in the automated doors or just have a disability in general and even willingly give up their seat to you if you're a pregnant woman, and old person or simply look very sick.
Hell, if you forget your metro pass or lose your ticket, you're even sure to find someone that will let you to go through the barriers along him!

I really don't understand where this myth of "French people are rude" came from.

I don't know, but all those bastards disobeying the museum rules when I was in Berlin were all French.

[Aelex]

I don't know, but all those bastards disobeying the museum rules when I was in Berlin were all French.

And all the turds that were screaming, touching shit they ain't supposed to and walking out of the designed areas when I was at a Museum in Lyon were Americans; yet do you see me making conclusions out of anecdotes and generalizing an entire nation's behavior out of the one of a few of it's citizens?

[Philjia]

I don't know, but all those bastards disobeying the museum rules when I was in Berlin were all French.

And all the turds that were screaming, touching shit they ain't supposed to and walking out of the designed areas when I was at a Museum in Lyon were Americans; yet do you see me making conclusions out of anecdotes and generalizing an entire nation's behavior out of the one of a few of it's citizens?

I should point out I'm not being entirely serious.

[Galloism]

I don't know, but all those bastards disobeying the museum rules when I was in Berlin were all French.

And all the turds that were screaming, touching shit they ain't supposed to and walking out of the designed areas when I was at a Museum in Lyon were Americans; yet do you see me making conclusions out of anecdotes and generalizing an entire nation's behavior out of the one of a few of it's citizens?

You get privileges being a citizen of the most powerful country on earth.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

You're missing a very important point: the French government believes that the survey is valid and they said they're going to take action against the phenomenon, hence why it's at least very likely to be valid.
More sources:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 84658.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/s ... -1.2189963

http://jezebel.com/survey-100-of-parisi ... 1698985345

Personally I believe that as temporary solution optional women-only carriages, like In Japan and India, would be good: optional, keep in mind. Women who doesn't feel harassed by low-level abuses due they've internalized misogyny will never feel the need of using such carriages, so the harassers aren't going to lose all their potential preys.
Sure, it would be a temporary solution, tackling just only the symptom and NOT the disease, but cultural changes like raising boys teaching them how to not harass women requires a lot of time and efforts, at least a further generation.

Women don't agree with me!

Internalised misogyny!

We don't agree because it's fucking nuts, you walnut.

As innocuous (and, frankly, amusing) as it may sound, "You walnut" is technically flaming. Please try to avoid that in the future.

[Lady Scylla]

Women don't agree with me!

Internalised misogyny!

We don't agree because it's fucking nuts, you walnut.

As innocuous (and, frankly, amusing) as it may sound, "You walnut" is technically flaming. Please try to avoid that in the future.

This is a case where I actually wasn't trying to be malicious. If I was, I would've actually come up with something less amusing and more insulting. But noted.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

As innocuous (and, frankly, amusing) as it may sound, "You walnut" is technically flaming. Please try to avoid that in the future.

This is a case where I actually wasn't trying to be malicious. If I was, I would've actually come up with something less amusing and more insulting. But noted.

Understood. That's why you didn't get even an unofficial warning.

[Charmera]

This is a case where I actually wasn't trying to be malicious. If I was, I would've actually come up with something less amusing and more insulting. But noted.

Understood. That's why you didn't get even an unofficial warning.

You got a warning to not get a warning about a warning. *nods*

[Heidisteinian Fempire]

I met a MRA in real life today.

It was scary, they wanted to attack my friend because they would not go out with them. They were also a stereotype, greasy hair, beanie, "le nerd" stuff.

I hope not all MRAs are truly like this.

[Balkenreich]

I met a MRA in real life today.

It was scary, they wanted to attack my friend because they would not go out with them. They were also a stereotype, greasy hair, beanie, "le nerd" stuff.

I hope not all MRAs are truly like this.

Proofs?

[Heidisteinian Fempire]

I met a MRA in real life today.

It was scary, they wanted to attack my friend because they would not go out with them. They were also a stereotype, greasy hair, beanie, "le nerd" stuff.

I hope not all MRAs are truly like this.

Proofs?

Yeah, like I go around recording stuff. You can go get free karma on r/thishappened

[New Edom]

I met a MRA in real life today.

It was scary, they wanted to attack my friend because they would not go out with them. They were also a stereotype, greasy hair, beanie, "le nerd" stuff.

I hope not all MRAs are truly like this.

You've also encountered anti-feminists on here, me among them. You accused me of constantly starting threads about fale rape accusations, claiming I was obsessed with them. I responded with a list of the threads I have started, none of which had false rape accusations listed as the main topics, to which you simply replied most of them are MRA related, thanks" and then proposed that I didn't care about women who were victims. None of the things you brought up are demonstratbly true. So when you bring up MRAs it doesn't seem very credible.

Now there is no real need for hostility between us, and I would gladly let it be water under the bridge, but I will only do so if you will step back from making stuff up about me and stop with the malicious streotyping. You will notice that I and my fellow anti-feminists generally limit ourselves to discussing important media articles, well known leaders in the feminist movement and policy making, not whether feminists don't wear bras or not, not whether they are hairy or unattractive. Most of us avoid the ad hominems around here, and it's shameful that some cannot keep from doing so in the vlog community.

[Heidisteinian Fempire]

I met a MRA in real life today.

It was scary, they wanted to attack my friend because they would not go out with them. They were also a stereotype, greasy hair, beanie, "le nerd" stuff.

I hope not all MRAs are truly like this.

You've also encountered anti-feminists on here, me among them. You accused me of constantly starting threads about fale rape accusations, claiming I was obsessed with them. I responded with a list of the threads I have started, none of which had false rape accusations listed as the main topics, to which you simply replied most of them are MRA related, thanks" and then proposed that I didn't care about women who were victims. None of the things you brought up are demonstratbly true. So when you bring up MRAs it doesn't seem very credible.

Now there is no real need for hostility between us, and I would gladly let it be water under the bridge, but I will only do so if you will step back from making stuff up about me and stop with the malicious streotyping. You will notice that I and my fellow anti-feminists generally limit ourselves to discussing important media articles, well known leaders in the feminist movement and policy making, not whether feminists don't wear bras or not, not whether they are hairy or unattractive. Most of us avoid the ad hominems around here, and it's shameful that some cannot keep from doing so in the vlog community.

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa

If this means what I think it means

1. I know who to not let into my region now
2. I thought you wanted no contact at all. I was very eager to have this arrangement.
3. If you really want no hostility at all, fine. I'll never mention you ever again.
4. Besides one person, the only time you were ever mentioned by me was when I disputed you being a feminist (which someone claimed you were)

I really don't want to bring this drama here, I'd much rather avoid you, actually.

[Kubra]

I met a MRA in real life today.

It was scary, they wanted to attack my friend because they would not go out with them. They were also a stereotype, greasy hair, beanie, "le nerd" stuff.

I hope not all MRAs are truly like this.

there was a vice article in which a guy went to an MRA demonstration and recorded his observations

Folks hear Vice and assume it was wholly negative, but it wasn't. Far from it. The guy noted that a lot of guys there were just average guys who weren't quite into MRA shit, but just didn't really know where to situate themselves in the changing gender environment.

[New Edom]

I met a MRA in real life today.

It was scary, they wanted to attack my friend because they would not go out with them. They were also a stereotype, greasy hair, beanie, "le nerd" stuff.

I hope not all MRAs are truly like this.

there was a vice article in which a guy went to an MRA demonstration and recorded his observations

Folks hear Vice and assume it was wholly negative, but it wasn't. Far from it. The guy noted that a lot of guys there were just average guys who weren't quite into MRA shit, but just didn't really know where to situate themselves in the changing gender environment.

I think there's frustration over the near continuous misrepresentation. Basically nearly every response to MRAs is stating that they range from being sad confused losers (the implication of the Vice article) who just don't get it and blame feminism unfairly, and that they're hateful misogynists. So while Vice's article is not that bad, it doesn't really go into the real concerns and undermines the overall views by going with the loser argument, not necessarily maliciously in intent but it is frustrating.

Also I find it ironic that feminists and their supporters, who so often complain about objectification and obsession with appearances in patriarchy and traditional roles are so quick to judge the apperance and economic status of people they profile as MRAs. .