The NationStates Feminist Thread II

[Shellbubalooville]

Okay so I haven't read through the whole thing, but I used to be a regular poster in NS until a number of years ago and wanted to say somethin'. I was popping back in and saw this and just wanted to say I love it!

Good on y'all. I'm so glad to see feminist ideas bouncing around in more and more places.

[Galloism]

This time we should just imprison them though instead of giving in to their demands.

Their demand being, "End domestic violence" and "Make domestic violence an issue for the state". Around 1400 women have been killed by their current or former partners over the last decade, their demand is that this stops and the number of women killed are reduced. But you think it's best not to give in to their demands??

It's fair to note that feminists often want the government to intervene in behalf of female victims of domestic violence, but are generally silent on the male victims of domestic violence. They even make sure that all their rhetoric includes only female victims, so as to push a gendered narrative towards domestic violence.

For instance, and this may be some American Exceptionalism and all that, for every 100 women killed by their spouses in the United States, 75 men are.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... E3B.f03t02

Yes, you never hear anyone say that - ever. Hell, you don't even MENTION all the men who have been killed.


In fact, we have documented evidence of feminists using career threats, funding threats, and even bomb threats to prevent evidence of the gender symmetry of Domestic VIolence from being recognized, and how effective it's been.

[Zapato]

Their demand being, "End domestic violence" and "Make domestic violence an issue for the state". Around 1400 women have been killed by their current or former partners over the last decade, their demand is that this stops and the number of women killed are reduced. But you think it's best not to give in to their demands??

It's fair to note that feminists often want the government to intervene in behalf of female victims of domestic violence, but are generally silent on the male victims of domestic violence. They even make sure that all their rhetoric includes only female victims, so as to push a gendered narrative towards domestic violence.

For instance, and this may be some American Exceptionalism and all that, for every 100 women killed by their spouses in the United States, 75 men are.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... E3B.f03t02

Yes, you never hear anyone say that - ever. Hell, you don't even MENTION all the men who have been killed.


In fact, we have documented evidence of feminists using career threats, funding threats, and even bomb threats to prevent evidence of the gender symmetry of Domestic VIolence from being recognized, and how effective it's been.

And for that reason, the State should ignore their demands to reduce violence and they should be imprisoned?

[Dumb Ideologies]

It's fair to note that feminists often want the government to intervene in behalf of female victims of domestic violence, but are generally silent on the male victims of domestic violence. They even make sure that all their rhetoric includes only female victims, so as to push a gendered narrative towards domestic violence.

For instance, and this may be some American Exceptionalism and all that, for every 100 women killed by their spouses in the United States, 75 men are.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... E3B.f03t02

Yes, you never hear anyone say that - ever. Hell, you don't even MENTION all the men who have been killed.


In fact, we have documented evidence of feminists using career threats, funding threats, and even bomb threats to prevent evidence of the gender symmetry of Domestic VIolence from being recognized, and how effective it's been.

And for that reason, the State should ignore their demands to reduce violence and they should be imprisoned?

Where on earth are you getting that from? You couldn't get a bigger leap than this if you put the long-jump world champion in one-tenth gravity conditions.

[Galloism]

It's fair to note that feminists often want the government to intervene in behalf of female victims of domestic violence, but are generally silent on the male victims of domestic violence. They even make sure that all their rhetoric includes only female victims, so as to push a gendered narrative towards domestic violence.

For instance, and this may be some American Exceptionalism and all that, for every 100 women killed by their spouses in the United States, 75 men are.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... E3B.f03t02

Yes, you never hear anyone say that - ever. Hell, you don't even MENTION all the men who have been killed.


In fact, we have documented evidence of feminists using career threats, funding threats, and even bomb threats to prevent evidence of the gender symmetry of Domestic VIolence from being recognized, and how effective it's been.

And for that reason, the State should ignore their demands to reduce violence and they should be imprisoned?

No - the state should ignore their demands to treat DV as a gendered problem, and treat it more like a standard criminal problem where either party can be the perpetrator or the victim.

Unlike now, where a male victim of domestic violence is more likely to be arrested than his female perpetrator.

[The Huskar Social Union]

And for that reason, the State should ignore their demands to reduce violence and they should be imprisoned?

You couldn't get a bigger leap than this if you put the long-jump world champion in one-tenth gravity conditions.

So taking this to the awesome quotes thread.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's fair to note that feminists often want the government to intervene in behalf of female victims of domestic violence, but are generally silent on the male victims of domestic violence. They even make sure that all their rhetoric includes only female victims, so as to push a gendered narrative towards domestic violence.

For instance, and this may be some American Exceptionalism and all that, for every 100 women killed by their spouses in the United States, 75 men are.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... E3B.f03t02

Yes, you never hear anyone say that - ever. Hell, you don't even MENTION all the men who have been killed.


In fact, we have documented evidence of feminists using career threats, funding threats, and even bomb threats to prevent evidence of the gender symmetry of Domestic VIolence from being recognized, and how effective it's been.

And for that reason, the State should ignore their demands to reduce violence and they should be imprisoned?

The ones who use violence and threats? Yeh.

[Zapato]

And for that reason, the State should ignore their demands to reduce violence and they should be imprisoned?

You couldn't get a bigger leap than this if you put the long-jump world champion in one-tenth gravity conditions.

I expect that he's trying to defend Ostroeuropa's position, and that's the argument made.

[Galloism]

You couldn't get a bigger leap than this if you put the long-jump world champion in one-tenth gravity conditions.

I expect that he's trying to defend Ostroeuropa's position, and that's the argument made.

Actually, I was just pointing out how sexist your post was, although it's an accurate representation of how sexist the activism generally is when it comes to DV (especially by feminists).

[Ostroeuropa]

You couldn't get a bigger leap than this if you put the long-jump world champion in one-tenth gravity conditions.

I expect that he's trying to defend Ostroeuropa's position, and that's the argument made.

No it isn't. I explicitly rejected your strawman the first time you brought it up and said their demand for domestic violence conversation to be gendered should be ignored and the violent should be imprisoned. Not their demand for an end to violence against women.
I suppose being a disingenuous liar is all you've got left though when you defend a bunch of disingenuous liars. But hey, at least you're not a violent thug too. Kudos.

Their demand being not to acknowledge domestic violence against men. Funny how you ignored that aspect of it and went right on back to gynocentralizing the discussion by waffling about women victims.

Oh, and this basically backs up my point about you being no different than chessmistress and natapoc when it comes to interactions with you, hence my distaste for doing so.

[Zapato]

And for that reason, the State should ignore their demands to reduce violence and they should be imprisoned?

No - the state should ignore their demands to treat DV as a gendered problem, and treat it more like a standard criminal problem where either party can be the perpetrator or the victim.

Unlike now, where a male victim of domestic violence is more likely to be arrested than his female perpetrator.

In Spain? No.

Intimate partner homicide account for around 85% of all murders of women in Spain, while at the same time 5–8% of all murders of men. While it shouldn't be ignored (and nobody says that it should), it is disproportionately affecting women to a large extent, making it a gendered problem.

[Dumb Ideologies]

You couldn't get a bigger leap than this if you put the long-jump world champion in one-tenth gravity conditions.

I expect that he's trying to defend Ostroeuropa's position, and that's the argument made.

I expect that you're one of the people who like to obfuscate clear and present problems with feminist practice by constructing men from enough straw to keep the entire farm awake at night.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I expect that he's trying to defend Ostroeuropa's position, and that's the argument made.

I expect that you're one of the people who like to obfuscate clear and present problems with feminist practice by constructing men from enough straw to keep the entire farm awake at night.

DI please stop with the ownage. A man can only take so much.

[Galloism]

No - the state should ignore their demands to treat DV as a gendered problem, and treat it more like a standard criminal problem where either party can be the perpetrator or the victim.

Unlike now, where a male victim of domestic violence is more likely to be arrested than his female perpetrator.

In Spain? No.

Intimate partner homicide account for around 85% of all murders of women in Spain, while at the same time 5–8% of all murders of men. While it shouldn't be ignored (and nobody says that it should), it is disproportionately affecting women to a large extent, making it a gendered problem.

You might be measuring relative percentages of two different quantities there. How many men are murdered and how many women are murdered per year in Spain?

(also, a source for this claim would be nice)


Edit: To explain what I mean by way of example, if, for instance (and this is only an example), 1000 men were murdered in spain in every year, and 100 women, then 8% of men would be 80 men, while 85% of women is 85 women. The actual spousal killings are almost equal, but you've gone and used the fact that men are far more likely to be victims of violence overall as a way to try and minimize the killings of men.

[Zapato]

I expect that he's trying to defend Ostroeuropa's position, and that's the argument made.

No it isn't. I explicitly rejected your strawman the first time you brought it up and said their demand for domestic violence conversation to be gendered should be ignored and the violent should be imprisoned. Not their demand for an end to violence against women.
I suppose being a disingenuous liar is all you've got left though when you defend a bunch of disingenuous liars. But hey, at least you're not a violent thug too. Kudos.

You haven't shown the slogans you claimed were present at the march, so you are a verifiably disingenuous liar.

[Ostroeuropa]

No - the state should ignore their demands to treat DV as a gendered problem, and treat it more like a standard criminal problem where either party can be the perpetrator or the victim.

Unlike now, where a male victim of domestic violence is more likely to be arrested than his female perpetrator.

In Spain? No.

Intimate partner homicide account for around 85% of all murders of women in Spain, while at the same time 5–8% of all murders of men. While it shouldn't be ignored (and nobody says that it should), it is disproportionately affecting women to a large extent, making it a gendered problem.

Couple of things.
1. All these statistics prove is that men are murdered more in general and women are murdered less. The gendered problem could be that men are targetted more for stranger violence, so you're just being disingenuous as is typical for feminists who take your position here.

2. Even if these were the statistics for incidences of spousal murder in general (As in, 85% of people murdered by spouses are women, 15% are men), it could be a reporting error stemming from a refusal to categorize womens violence against men as domestic violence, and by classifying women who murder their partners in domestic disputes as self-defence.

3. It doesn't account for murder by proxy.

Those 3 alone are sufficient to dismiss your point, but the first is the real killer.
Why do you seem to feel the need to obfuscate, be disingenuous, and misrepresent reality to prove your point?
Is it that you cannot justify a gynocentric conception of sexism without misinformation and misdirection?

[Dumb Ideologies]

I expect that you're one of the people who like to obfuscate clear and present problems with feminist practice by constructing men from enough straw to keep the entire farm awake at night.

DI please stop with the ownage. A man can only take so much.

Silly Huskar, men both can and should take absolutely everything that is thrown at them - metaphorically or physically; after all, it's only women who can be victims of violence and assault.

[The Huskar Social Union]

DI please stop with the ownage. A man can only take so much.

Silly Huskar, men both can and should take absolutely everything that is thrown at them - metaphorically or physically; after all, it's only women who can be victims of violence and assault.

How can i live with these lies!?

[Sanic teh Hegehog]

"- non-violence and the eradication of violence against women"
Well, not to be a jerk here, but if you're really pushing for equal rights here, go for eradication against both(All? I don't know.) genders, not just women. Lots of domestic violence victims are men.

[Shellbubalooville]

"- non-violence and the eradication of violence against women"
Well, not to be a jerk here, but if you're really pushing for equal rights here, go for eradication against both(All? I don't know.) genders, not just women. Lots of domestic violence victims are men.

Feminism takes issues such as violence and approaches it from the female (or self identified female) perspective and fights to solve the situation from our end. Of course, violence against anyone should be stopped, but there's nothing wrong with feminism fighting to stop violence against women - as much as it is wrong for LGBT to be fighting against violence against LGBT people, or people of color doing the same thing. And these movements for the most part have an idea of the bigger picture, they just tackle it from their corner.

[Galloism]

"- non-violence and the eradication of violence against women"
Well, not to be a jerk here, but if you're really pushing for equal rights here, go for eradication against both(All? I don't know.) genders, not just women. Lots of domestic violence victims are men.

Feminism takes issues such as violence and approaches it from the female (or self identified female) perspective and fights to solve the situation from our end. Of course, violence against anyone should be stopped, but there's nothing wrong with feminism fighting to stop violence against women - as much as it is wrong for LGBT to be fighting against violence against LGBT people, or people of color doing the same thing. And these movements for the most part have an idea of the bigger picture, they just tackle it from their corner.

So why do many feminists work so hard to prevent any recognition of violence against men by women, if they recognize it happens?

[Galloism]

DI please stop with the ownage. A man can only take so much.

Silly Huskar, men both can and should take absolutely everything that is thrown at them - metaphorically or physically; after all, it's only women who can be victims of violence and assault.

You know, you're being deliberately ironic here, but you're not far off to what many people actually think.

[Ostroeuropa]

"- non-violence and the eradication of violence against women"
Well, not to be a jerk here, but if you're really pushing for equal rights here, go for eradication against both(All? I don't know.) genders, not just women. Lots of domestic violence victims are men.

Feminism takes issues such as violence and approaches it from the female (or self identified female) perspective and fights to solve the situation from our end. Of course, violence against anyone should be stopped, but there's nothing wrong with feminism fighting to stop violence against women - as much as it is wrong for LGBT to be fighting against violence against LGBT people, or people of color doing the same thing. And these movements for the most part have an idea of the bigger picture, they just tackle it from their corner.

This would be fine if the feminist movement didn't seem intent on preventing the mens rights movement from attaining momentum.

[Vashtanaraada]

Feminism takes issues such as violence and approaches it from the female (or self identified female) perspective and fights to solve the situation from our end. Of course, violence against anyone should be stopped, but there's nothing wrong with feminism fighting to stop violence against women - as much as it is wrong for LGBT to be fighting against violence against LGBT people, or people of color doing the same thing. And these movements for the most part have an idea of the bigger picture, they just tackle it from their corner.

So why do many feminists work so hard to prevent any recognition of violence against men by women, if they recognize it happens?

Gonna be like
Marxist Feminists acknowledge that the socioeconomic and politics of capitalism oppresses both sexes

[Dumb Ideologies]

"- non-violence and the eradication of violence against women"
Well, not to be a jerk here, but if you're really pushing for equal rights here, go for eradication against both(All? I don't know.) genders, not just women. Lots of domestic violence victims are men.

Feminism takes issues such as violence and approaches it from the female (or self identified female) perspective and fights to solve the situation from our end. Of course, violence against anyone should be stopped, but there's nothing wrong with feminism fighting to stop violence against women - as much as it is wrong for LGBT to be fighting against violence against LGBT people, or people of color doing the same thing. And these movements for the most part have an idea of the bigger picture, they just tackle it from their corner.

LGBT groups and ethnically-based groups don't tend to deliberately obstruct and delegitimize attempts by other groups to tackle violence against their members by kicking off like spoiled children who think that they're entitled to all the activist candy. Feminist organizations, on the other hand - as has been thoroughly proven by numerous posters on this thread - do.