The NationStates Feminist Thread II

[Nordonovik]

The Quintessential Modern Feminist: Living alone in a dingy, pungent smelling apartment who's air is reminiscent of mustard gas due to all of the cats she's collected, unwashed dildos of varying color and size scattered about here and there along with the piles of crumpled up fast food bags and empty soda cans that fill this bloated, bitter creature's tomb.

This is a very productive offering to the conversation.

Absolutely.

[Reploid Productions]

The Quintessential Modern Feminist: Living alone in a dingy, pungent smelling apartment who's air is reminiscent of mustard gas due to all of the cats she's collected, unwashed dildos of varying color and size scattered about here and there along with the piles of crumpled up fast food bags and empty soda cans that fill this bloated, bitter creature's tomb.

*** WARNED for trolling. *** This is not How To Debate on NSG. Here are the site rules, review them at your earliest convenience.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Zapato]

This is typical of their MO in countries where they haven't managed to hijack the state to engage in their violence for them.

Huh? Have feminists hijacked any states? What states are engaging in violence on the behalf of feminists?

This time we should just imprison them though instead of giving in to their demands.

Their demand being, "End domestic violence" and "Make domestic violence an issue for the state". Around 1400 women have been killed by their current or former partners over the last decade, their demand is that this stops and the number of women killed are reduced. But you think it's best not to give in to their demands?

You think i'm overly hostile to a terroristic and hate filled movement that actively abuses state power to discriminate on a massive scale?

¿Qué?

Thousands apparently, though it also has the endorsement of all main political parties except the Conservatives, who back the not-a-hate-group march. It received 100,000 euros in government subsidy.

The Conservatives, Partido Popular, was a part of the demonstration. VOX, a minor offshoot of PP, was behind the small counter-demonstration.

By the way, AHIGE (Asociación de Hombres por la Igualdad de Género) also supported the main demonstration. Are they part of your hate movement as well?

[The Serbian Empire]

I think you need a refresher on what "feminism" means.

The Quintessential Modern Feminist: Living alone in a dingy, pungent smelling apartment who's air is reminiscent of mustard gas due to all of the cats she's collected, unwashed dildos of varying color and size scattered about here and there along with the piles of crumpled up fast food bags and empty soda cans that fill this bloated, bitter creature's tomb.

That is the Tumblr Female Supremacist, not to be mistaken with actual feminists.

[G-Tech Corporation]

The Quintessential Modern Feminist: Living alone in a dingy, pungent smelling apartment who's air is reminiscent of mustard gas due to all of the cats she's collected, unwashed dildos of varying color and size scattered about here and there along with the piles of crumpled up fast food bags and empty soda cans that fill this bloated, bitter creature's tomb.

That is the Tumblr Female Supremacist, not to be mistaken with actual feminists.

A rare mythical beast seldom observed in the wild, so question whether the TFS is indeed a genetically distinct sub-species, or merely the fevered delusions of the mind of particularly rabid cultural anthropology undergrads.

[Wallenburg]

I think you need a refresher on what "feminism" means.

The Quintessential Modern Feminist: Living alone in a dingy, pungent smelling apartment who's air is reminiscent of mustard gas due to all of the cats she's collected, unwashed dildos of varying color and size scattered about here and there along with the piles of crumpled up fast food bags and empty soda cans that fill this bloated, bitter creature's tomb.

I like how the only thing I have in common with your bait is "living".

[Ostroeuropa]

This is typical of their MO in countries where they haven't managed to hijack the state to engage in their violence for them.

Huh? Have feminists hijacked any states? What states are engaging in violence on the behalf of feminists?

This time we should just imprison them though instead of giving in to their demands.

Their demand being, "End domestic violence" and "Make domestic violence an issue for the state". Around 1400 women have been killed by their current or former partners over the last decade, their demand is that this stops and the number of women killed are reduced. But you think it's best not to give in to their demands?

You think i'm overly hostile to a terroristic and hate filled movement that actively abuses state power to discriminate on a massive scale?

¿Qué?

Thousands apparently, though it also has the endorsement of all main political parties except the Conservatives, who back the not-a-hate-group march. It received 100,000 euros in government subsidy.

The Conservatives, Partido Popular, was a part of the demonstration. VOX, a minor offshoot of PP, was behind the small counter-demonstration.

By the way, AHIGE (Asociación de Hombres por la Igualdad de Género) also supported the main demonstration. Are they part of your hate movement as well?

Any which support the Duluth model, and that's merely one policy.

Their demand being not to acknowledge domestic violence against men. Funny how you ignored that aspect of it and went right on back to gynocentralizing the discussion by waffling about women victims. Also funny how you ignored all their slogans used at the rally had nothing to do with DV really and were more about hating men.

I just outlined the incidents. If you can't be bothered to go back in a post chain, don't reply to one.

I don't know enough about the AHIGE, though if they are akin to the good men project, then yes. They are typically as bad as radical feminists.

[Kelinfort]

Leftists are mostly racist, sexist, and for inequality! I mean, just look at Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Erich Honecker, Nicolae Ceausescu, leftist leaders who have supported genocide and imperailism, etc. It's institutional, you see. Most leftists are clearly like this and totally delusional. Leftists are the primary cause of inequality because they're institutional. We must remove all leftists from power! And those that remain should call themselves "leftist-rightists". Clearly, the Left as a movement only stands for evil!

Sound familiar?

[Ostroeuropa]

That is the Tumblr Female Supremacist, not to be mistaken with actual feminists.

A rare mythical beast seldom observed in the wild, so question whether the TFS is indeed a genetically distinct sub-species, or merely the fevered delusions of the mind of particularly rabid cultural anthropology undergrads.

So you're just going to ignore how most feminist institutions are dominated by them then?

[Kelinfort]

The Quintessential Modern Feminist: Living alone in a dingy, pungent smelling apartment who's air is reminiscent of mustard gas due to all of the cats she's collected, unwashed dildos of varying color and size scattered about here and there along with the piles of crumpled up fast food bags and empty soda cans that fill this bloated, bitter creature's tomb.

That is the Tumblr Female Supremacist, not to be mistaken with actual feminists.

How many are serious and how many are trolls?

[Ostroeuropa]

That is the Tumblr Female Supremacist, not to be mistaken with actual feminists.

How many are serious and how many are trolls?

Considering the number of media publications that back their views, the number of lobbyists who back their views, etc.
Um?
Most of them are serious?

[Ostroeuropa]

Leftists are mostly racist, sexist, and for inequality! I mean, just look at Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Erich Honecker, Nicolae Ceausescu, leftist leaders who have supported genocide and imperailism, etc. It's institutional, you see. Most leftists are clearly like this and totally delusional. Leftists are the primary cause of inequality because they're institutional. We must remove all leftists from power! And those that remain should call themselves "leftist-rightists". Clearly, the Left as a movement only stands for evil!

Sound familiar?

Leftist isn't a coherent grouping. Nor do leftists currently use institutional power in the west to oppress people, nor has this been the entirety of their movements history. You can find leftists in media publications and institutions of power that aren't oppressive. In fact, the type who are maoist or whatever are clearly a minority.
With feminism the reverse is true. Leftism also isn't founded on an oppressive conception of the situation. Your analogy fails.

[Kelinfort]

Leftists are mostly racist, sexist, and for inequality! I mean, just look at Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Erich Honecker, Nicolae Ceausescu, leftist leaders who have supported genocide and imperailism, etc. It's institutional, you see. Most leftists are clearly like this and totally delusional. Leftists are the primary cause of inequality because they're institutional. We must remove all leftists from power! And those that remain should call themselves "leftist-rightists". Clearly, the Left as a movement only stands for evil!

Sound familiar?

Leftist isn't a coherent grouping. Nor do leftists currently use institutional power in the west to oppress people, nor has this been the entirety of their movements history.

"Currently"

So you admit they have? Clearly they can't be trusted!

The Left's historical roots are in anarchy and bloodshed, rebellion and genocide. They're institutional and only seek to empower themselves.

[Ostroeuropa]

Leftist isn't a coherent grouping. Nor do leftists currently use institutional power in the west to oppress people, nor has this been the entirety of their movements history.

"Currently"

So you admit they have? Clearly they can't be trusted!

The Left's historical roots are in anarchy and bloodshed, rebellion and genocide. They're institutional and only seek to empower themselves.

You're ignoring the end part of the quoted post because to acknowledge it would mean you can't make this argument. It's an example of the type of disingenuous bullshit you frequently have to pull to pretend my argument is something it isn't.
What's the point in addressing you when you're just going to ignore my response and carry on with your nonsense?


Additionally:
You can find leftists in media publications and institutions of power that aren't oppressive. In fact, the type who are maoist or whatever are clearly a minority.
With feminism the reverse is true. Leftism also isn't founded on an oppressive conception of the situation. Your analogy fails.

[Kelinfort]

"Currently"

So you admit they have? Clearly they can't be trusted!

The Left's historical roots are in anarchy and bloodshed, rebellion and genocide. They're institutional and only seek to empower themselves.

You're ignoring the end part of the quoted post because to acknowledge it would mean you can't make this argument. It's an example of the type of disingenuous bullshit you frequently have to pull to pretend my argument is something it isn't.
What's the point in addressing you when you're just going to ignore my response and carry on with your nonsense?

Explain why the Left isn't a coherent grouping?

[G-Tech Corporation]

A rare mythical beast seldom observed in the wild, so question whether the TFS is indeed a genetically distinct sub-species, or merely the fevered delusions of the mind of particularly rabid cultural anthropology undergrads.

So you're just going to ignore how most feminist institutions are dominated by them then?

*citation needed*

[Ostroeuropa]

You're ignoring the end part of the quoted post because to acknowledge it would mean you can't make this argument. It's an example of the type of disingenuous bullshit you frequently have to pull to pretend my argument is something it isn't.
What's the point in addressing you when you're just going to ignore my response and carry on with your nonsense?

Explain why the Left isn't a coherent grouping?

Because they don't share the same goals, values, conceptions of the situation, movements, intellectual traditions, symbols, rhetoric, terminology, heroes, issues, or names for their fucking ideologies.

It is, at best, a coalition of disparate groups united in an alliance of political convenience against the right wing, which is another coalition.

Feminists on the other hand call themselves feminists, use the same terminology, have the same movement (The Feminist Movement), frequently cite the same heroes and thus have the same intellectual tradition (And where they do not, often cannot justify calling themselves a feminist and insist on dodging the question), often have the same conception of the situation or a patched version of it, have the same goals and values, though differ on how to achieve them, and have, you know.
The same fucking name for their ideology.

If you went on a ramble about, say, how The Stalinists shouldn't be trusted, you'd have a point.

[Ostroeuropa]

So you're just going to ignore how most feminist institutions are dominated by them then?

*citation needed*

*Sigh.*
Well let's start with domestic violence and go one issue at a time.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gende ... d%208-.pdf

Or you can pay attention to how Chessmistress frequently cites feminists, feminist articles, and feminist laws she agrees with. She's sourced more feminists here than anyone else. And yet everyone here agrees she's a radical extremist.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmm... Yeh?

[G-Tech Corporation]

*citation needed*

*Sigh.*
Well let's start with domestic violence and go one issue at a time.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gende ... d%208-.pdf

Or you can pay attention to how Chessmistress frequently cites feminists, feminist articles, and feminist laws she agrees with. She's sourced more feminists here than anyone else. And yet everyone here agrees she's a radical extremist.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmm... Yeh?

Except Patriarchal Dominance as a theory to explain partner violence and domestic violence is widely discredited outside of radical circles. So you cited a source which is itself attacking a strawman to demonize feminists. I guess, erm, good job?

Chessmistress can cite all she wants. Finding loud and obnoxious article from minor organizations isn't exactly impressive.

[Ostroeuropa]

*Sigh.*
Well let's start with domestic violence and go one issue at a time.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gende ... d%208-.pdf

Or you can pay attention to how Chessmistress frequently cites feminists, feminist articles, and feminist laws she agrees with. She's sourced more feminists here than anyone else. And yet everyone here agrees she's a radical extremist.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmm... Yeh?

Except Patriarchal Dominance as a theory to explain partner violence and domestic violence is widely discredited outside of radical circles. So you cited a source which is itself attacking a strawman to demonize feminists. I guess, erm, good job?

Chessmistress can cite all she wants. Finding loud and obnoxious article from minor organizations isn't exactly impressive.

You've ignored how those radical circles have managed to have it adopted by the EU and USA as the explanation for patriarchal violence.
I've cited a source which is itself attacking feminism and it's effects.

You're in denial over how widespread radicals are in your movement. It's not minor organizations. These are the people who are in the vanguard of your movement, and in the mainstream media, and in the halls of government.

How about Jess Phillips and her comments?

[Wallenburg]

Leftists are mostly racist, sexist, and for inequality! I mean, just look at Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Erich Honecker, Nicolae Ceausescu, leftist leaders who have supported genocide and imperailism, etc. It's institutional, you see. Most leftists are clearly like this and totally delusional. Leftists are the primary cause of inequality because they're institutional. We must remove all leftists from power! And those that remain should call themselves "leftist-rightists". Clearly, the Left as a movement only stands for evil!

Sound familiar?

I almost reported you until I realized it was sarcasm.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Except Patriarchal Dominance as a theory to explain partner violence and domestic violence is widely discredited outside of radical circles. So you cited a source which is itself attacking a strawman to demonize feminists. I guess, erm, good job?

Chessmistress can cite all she wants. Finding loud and obnoxious article from minor organizations isn't exactly impressive.

You've ignored how those radical circles have managed to have it adopted by the EU and USA as the explanation for patriarchal violence.
I've cited a source which is itself attacking feminism and it's effects.

You're in denial over how widespread radicals are in your movement. It's not minor organizations. These are the people who are in the vanguard of your movement, and in the mainstream media, and in the halls of government.

How about Jess Phillips and her comments?

You just said that radical circles have made the USA and EU adopt patriarchal violence as the explanation for patriarchal violence. That makes sense, yep. Your article calls on personal opinion and supposition dozens of times over the course of its mediocre length- that alone makes it suspect as an objective analysis. Frankly, the points raised in that source are valid to consider, but the conclusion of the author is obviously predetermined. That was not research conducted to determine if a problem existed; it is rather an op-ed piece created to reaffirm the author's previously held conclusions.

I love how you say I'm in denial. I am, by the standards of most posters who frequent this thread, in no way a "true" feminist. Every movement has radicals, which I think anyone in this thread would agree with. Trying to argue that they're some conspiracy pervading the halls of power to oppress men is an entirely different point.

Jess Philips is silly. At the same time, the fact that she holds an unpopular viewpoint hardly justifies rape threats.

[Ostroeuropa]

You've ignored how those radical circles have managed to have it adopted by the EU and USA as the explanation for patriarchal violence.
I've cited a source which is itself attacking feminism and it's effects.

You're in denial over how widespread radicals are in your movement. It's not minor organizations. These are the people who are in the vanguard of your movement, and in the mainstream media, and in the halls of government.

How about Jess Phillips and her comments?

You just said that radical circles have made the USA and EU adopt patriarchal violence as the explanation for patriarchal violence. That makes sense, yep. Your article calls on personal opinion and supposition dozens of times over the course of its mediocre length- that alone makes it suspect as an objective analysis. Frankly, the points raised in that source are valid to consider, but the conclusion of the author is obviously predetermined. That was not research conducted to determine if a problem existed; it is rather an op-ed piece created to reaffirm the author's previously held conclusions.

I love how you say I'm in denial. I am, by the standards of most posters who frequent this thread, in no way a "true" feminist. Every movement has radicals, which I think anyone in this thread would agree with. Trying to argue that they're some conspiracy pervading the halls of power to oppress men is an entirely different point.

Jess Philips is silly. At the same time, the fact that she holds an unpopular viewpoint hardly justifies rape threats.

1. I misspoke, but you've ignored the point i'm making. The USA and EU have adopted the duluth model.
The article references a well known trend. I JUST linked to another incident in spain that follows similar patterns of feminist violence and threats against people who challenge the duluth model.

2. I never argued conspiracy. I don't think conservatives conspire to wreck the economy either. Feminism is a widespread pseudo-religious ideology that is making there be a pervasive tendency toward fuck ups in the halls of power which oppresses men.

3. She received absolutely no rape threats. None. There were two comments on the website Voat, heavily downvoted (So you had to actively go hunting for them, by the way.) which said they wish she would be raped. They were not delivered to her nor addressed to her, nor could anyone reasonably expect her to have found them. This incident and the media running with it is an example of feminist corruption in the media and how they abuse their institutional power to deflect criticism from their hate group. Jess Phillips used her position as an MP to shut down discussion on mens issues that leads to actual rapes, actual suicides, and actual domestic abuse. She gets called out on it, and runs off to blubber and cry and demonstrate she's a large toddler and not a proper adult.
In the process, her and the feminist aligned media go actively hunting for a way to deflect criticism and whine about rape "Threats." in order to derail the topic from an actual fucking issue of institutionalized sexism, into whining and damseling. Her views are NOT unpopular in the establishment, that's what you're failing to realize. They are the norm, and they are the norm because of feminist activism and takeover of the media. In THIS instance, i'd argue conspiracy is possible. There is no other real explanation for why they ran this "Rape threats" story when you look at the facts. There is no explanation for how they found the voat comments unless they went actively searching for them, or made them themselves. It would make sense spin wise. A labour spin doctor tells her she fucked up and they need to fix it, so go away and do some damseling in the media, so let's find some troll comments online.
The media, being feminist aligned and obsessed with the feminist narrative, would rather run a story about a an utter non-news piece and borderline lie than run a story criticizing the feminist narrative about mens issues.

The fact you mention the rape threats means you're a part of the problem here. Learn to fucking fact check what feminists in the media tell you.
It is almost always a lie, or disingenuous.

[Kelinfort]

Explain why the Left isn't a coherent grouping?

Because they don't share the same goals, values, conceptions of the situation, movements, intellectual traditions, symbols, rhetoric, terminology, heroes, issues, or names for their fucking ideologies.

It is, at best, a coalition of disparate groups united in an alliance of political convenience against the right wing, which is another coalition.

Feminists on the other hand call themselves feminists, use the same terminology, have the same movement (The Feminist Movement), frequently cite the same heroes and thus have the same intellectual tradition (And where they do not, often cannot justify calling themselves a feminist and insist on dodging the question), often have the same conception of the situation or a patched version of it, have the same goals and values, though differ on how to achieve them, and have, you know.
The same fucking name for their ideology.

If you went on a ramble about, say, how The Stalinists shouldn't be trusted, you'd have a point.

Let's see...

same goals

Uh, no, actually depending on how radical they are, most left groups share similar goals...

values

Yeah, ok, they're differences between socially conservative and socially liberal leftists. Not that you acknowledge these differences in feminism, anyway.

conceptions of the situation

Depending on their radicality, yes they do share conceptions of situations.

movements

See above. Leftist movements generally share common goals. They differ on ideological radicalism and therein lies the difference. But again you never seem to see this...

intellectual traditions, symbols, rhetoric, terminology, heroes, issues, or names for their fucking ideologies

It is a well known fact all leftists accept Marx as their personal Lord and Savior, just as feminists worship Dworkin until the end of time. Furthermore, most leftists share similar issues (Unless they're what I call, "Leftist-Rightists"). Oh, and now nomenclature matters. Last time I checked, there were over thirty varieties of feminism posted by the OP. But they're all the same. And I make no distinction based on "name" for the Left.

Feminists on the other hand call themselves feminists, use the same terminology, have the same movement (The Feminist Movement), frequently cite the same heroes and thus have the same intellectual tradition

Yes, I love Dworkin and all Her works.

(And where they do not, often cannot justify calling themselves a feminist and insist on dodging the question), often have the same conception of the situation or a patched version of it, have the same goals and values, though differ on how to achieve them, and have, you know.
The same fucking name for their ideology.

Not really any difference I'm seeing between Feminism and the Left. Maybe you support one and oppose the other...

If you went on a ramble about, say, how The Stalinists shouldn't be trusted, you'd have a point.

Radical Feminism isn't equivalent to the radical left?

Also, the Left has a significant portion of members that I refer to as "Leftist-Rightists". They embrace capitalism and accept the realities of the world we're in, while renouncing the ludicrous platform of the Left. As a result, they call themselves, "Social Democrats", and "Social Liberals." Which is all well and good, but they keep denying reality if they say they're on the same side as the Left.

[Ostroeuropa]

Also, the Left has a significant portion of members that I refer to as "Leftist-Rightists". They embrace capitalism and accept the realities of the world we're in, while renouncing the ludicrous platform of the Left. As a result, they call themselves, "Social Democrats", and "Social Liberals." Which is all well and good, but they keep denying reality if they say they're on the same side as the Left.

The rest of your post doesn't address my points. I'll focus on this one because it's a bit I didn't address previously.

Leftist-rightist is internally contradictory.
MRA-Feminist isn't.

Your analogy failed on almost every level.