Circumcision: Double Standard?

[Morr]

I mainly agree with you, but some exception should still be made for Jews, etc.

Only with consent being involved, in my opinion.

Well, look here man, it's a religious precedence that preceded its replacement of baptism. Okay, yeah, Jews of today subscribe to the Rabbinic Judaism founded by Pharisees, and in that sense they cannot be considered a faith related to Christianity, but in the sense that they share the same heritage, they are, and if you suggest that circumcision of infants is wrong in some absolute sense, then you're suggesting that, among other things, the circumcision of Christ was wrong. Circumcision here, with Judaism, is not just some aesthetic thing, it has to do with how their perceive the covenant to be expressed, and it did used to be expressed that way.

[Gim]

Why? I didn't circumcise them. And most of them probably don't have much of a problem with it.

I do. I'd rather have had my pens intact.

Ink dries up, if you leave them unused, thus intact.

[Dakini]

No, the seeds are the things that go on to become new plants. They're zygotes encased in a protective membrane. The fruits don't feed the seeds so they're not really placenta.

Wow. You're right. I somehow thought wombs were equal to babies. This is how much I am tired right now.

No, the womb is the uterus.

[Wallenburg]

I do. I'd rather have had my pens intact.

Ink dries up, if you leave them unused, thus intact.

Ironically, that statement still makes sense. I broke my only red pen last week.

[Jochistan]

The initial point was that I was trying to say that you can describe most anything to sound horrifying or disgusting to fit an argument. I never said immoral. That's optional.

And this capacity to twist words somehow mitigates that child circumcision is torture and forced genital mutilation?

Yeah, because, with males, unless it's done in unsanitary environments. it's sort of a thing that doesn't have an extremely painful effect on the kids life. Likening it to torture and using charged words is kind of just pointless, because in real life, its sort of just...not that horrifically painful an effect on the Childs life.

If you're talking about female circumcision, it's a different story.

[Gim]

Ink dries up, if you leave them unused, thus intact.

Ironically, that statement still makes sense. I broke my only red pen last week.

Yeah, always try to use them at least once per day. That will help.

[Morr]

I mainly agree with you, but some exception should still be made for Jews, etc.

Why? Children should be allowed to decide when they're older whether they want to have their bodies modified.

Mainly because most of the people arguing against it are secular thinkers, who don't believe in fixed morality, and if they outlaw an extremely core element of a religion that has a very, very long precedent, I believe it will be much easier to pass laws curtailing other religions down the road, since it will no longer be some massive line you have to cross.

[Test242]

Yeah, because, with males, unless it's done in unsanitary environments. it's sort of a thing that doesn't have an extremely painful effect on the kids life. Likening it to torture and using charged words is kind of just pointless, because in real life, its sort of just...not that horrifically painful an effect on the Childs life.

Neither would cutting off a toe.

[Jochistan]

Why? I didn't circumcise them. And most of them probably don't have much of a problem with it.

Oh, well thank you for judging that for them. Everyone appreciates your standing up for the little guy.

Glad they do.

[Jochistan]

Yeah, because, with males, unless it's done in unsanitary environments. it's sort of a thing that doesn't have an extremely painful effect on the kids life. Likening it to torture and using charged words is kind of just pointless, because in real life, its sort of just...not that horrifically painful an effect on the Childs life.

Neither would cutting off a toe.

depends which toe, really.

seriously though, that's an entire digit.

[Test242]

depends which toe, really.

You should have your head shaved and be tattooed. won't be painful.

[Dakini]

Why? Children should be allowed to decide when they're older whether they want to have their bodies modified.

Mainly because most of the people arguing against it are secular thinkers, who don't believe in fixed morality, and if they outlaw an extremely core element of a religion that has a very, very long precedent, I believe it will be much easier to pass laws curtailing other religions down the road, since it will no longer be some massive line you have to cross.

Why should one person be allowed to inflict their religious beliefs and practices on others?

[Gim]

Yeah, because, with males, unless it's done in unsanitary environments. it's sort of a thing that doesn't have an extremely painful effect on the kids life. Likening it to torture and using charged words is kind of just pointless, because in real life, its sort of just...not that horrifically painful an effect on the Childs life.

Neither would cutting off a toe.

And...that's not conventional at all.

[Jochistan]

depends which toe, really.

You should have your head shaved and be tattooed. won't be painful.

I'm sure it won't be.

But I don't normally walk outside with my dick out.

[Gim]

You should have your head shaved and be tattooed. won't be painful.

I'm sure it won't be.

But I don't normally walk outside with my dick out.

*looks down at his pants*

[Wallenburg]

And this capacity to twist words somehow mitigates that child circumcision is torture and forced genital mutilation?

Yeah, because, with males, unless it's done in unsanitary environments. it's sort of a thing that doesn't have an extremely painful effect on the kids life. Likening it to torture and using charged words is kind of just pointless, because in real life, its sort of just...not that horrifically painful an effect on the Childs life.

If you're talking about female circumcision, it's a different story.

https://www.google.com/search?q=circumc ... =592&dpr=3
Watch a video and tell me the child is not in horrific pain. Of course, you can choose not to watch it. In fact, I'd suggest closing your eyes and just listening. That's about as much of it as I could take.

[Morr]

Mainly because most of the people arguing against it are secular thinkers, who don't believe in fixed morality, and if they outlaw an extremely core element of a religion that has a very, very long precedent, I believe it will be much easier to pass laws curtailing other religions down the road, since it will no longer be some massive line you have to cross.

Why should one person be allowed to inflict their religious beliefs and practices on others?

Why should one person be allowed to inflict their secular beliefs and practices on others? I'm at least coming from a position where my ideology being objectively correct is inherently written into it. But yours, yours makes no claim to be objectively better than the ideology next door, so it seems arbitrary to give it precedence.

[Gim]

Why should one person be allowed to inflict their religious beliefs and practices on others?

Why should one person be allowed to inflict their secular beliefs and practices on others? I'm at least coming from a position where my ideology being objectively correct is inherently written into it. But yours, yours makes no claim to be objectively better than the ideology next door, so it seems arbitrary to give it precedence.

Well, not circumcising is basically not taking an action, so I do not see how that can be a "secular practice".

[USS Monitor]

But what if the vaccine causes autism?

No, I'm not serious. I know vaccines don't cause autism.

Silly, don't you know that the HPV vaccine only cause vaccine affective disorder, a disease invented by anti-vaxxers that hasn't really been shown to exist.

I never heard of it. Must have been discovered after I sank...

[Morr]

Why should one person be allowed to inflict their secular beliefs and practices on others? I'm at least coming from a position where my ideology being objectively correct is inherently written into it. But yours, yours makes no claim to be objectively better than the ideology next door, so it seems arbitrary to give it precedence.

Well, not circumcising is basically not taking an action, so I do not see how that can be a "secular practice".

Prohibiting is an action. And I don't really object to prohibiting it in general, I just prefer exception be made for religion.

[Test242]

But yours, yours makes no claim to be objectively better than the ideology next door, so it seems arbitrary to give it precedence.

Outlawing assault isn't exactly without precedence.

[Test242]

Prohibiting is an action. And I don't really object to prohibiting it in general, I just prefer exception be made for religion.

Let ISIS handle you.

[Jochistan]

Yeah, because, with males, unless it's done in unsanitary environments. it's sort of a thing that doesn't have an extremely painful effect on the kids life. Likening it to torture and using charged words is kind of just pointless, because in real life, its sort of just...not that horrifically painful an effect on the Childs life.

If you're talking about female circumcision, it's a different story.

https://www.google.com/search?q=circumc ... =592&dpr=3
Watch a video and tell me the child is not in horrific pain. Of course, you can choose not to watch it. In fact, I'd suggest closing your eyes and just listening. That's about as much of it as I could take.

damn.

I really can't say much now can I.

[Wallenburg]

Well, not circumcising is basically not taking an action, so I do not see how that can be a "secular practice".

Prohibiting is an action. And I don't really object to prohibiting it in general, I just prefer exception be made for religion.

Consider this: infants haven't elected to follow a religion. Your proposed exemption forces their parents' religion on them.

[Test242]

I really can't say much now can I.

You could choose not to care if you're a sociopath.