Circumcision: Double Standard?

[Jochistan]

Yes, but Reformists and reconstructionists are considered heterodox at best and heretics at worst by most other Jews

True, but at least these people aren't mutilating their boys' penises.

So? they still aren't the majority.

[Dakini]

Several. I've seen attractive penises that are circumcised, ugly penises that are circumcised (including one that had a pretty bad looking scar from the procedure), attractive penises that are non-circumcised, unattractive penises that are non-circumcised. Foreskin doesn't really matter since that all retracts when a guy's hard anyway.

Sounds like a personal opinion too me.

You made a fucking statement that women would not find uncircumcised penises attractive. That's your personal opinion from assumptions that you made about how women feel about penis attractiveness. As a woman who fucks dudes (well, just one at present), I pointed out that not all of us do care and that circumcision status is not a deciding factor in how attractive penises are.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

True, but at least these people aren't mutilating their boys' penises.

So? they still aren't the majority.

Change starts somewhere.

[Ashkera]

I'm for circumcisions. My kid doesn't have a choice? Too bad. When the kid is an adult, then they can complain about circumcisions and how horrible they are. Until they get a job, move out, or contribute to the household in some meaningful way, their rights are nil. Besides that, I don't care. Besides, I highly doubt there are many women out there who want to look at a guy's misshapen anteater penis.

Your children are not your property. They may be given into your care, they may be your responsibility, but they aren't washing machines. You can't just do whatever you like to them. They're people. It does not grow back.

Screw "parental choice" - we ban FGM and rightfully so despite it being "parental choice". We wouldn't let it slide if you were cutting off pieces of ears (not just piercings). Most developed countries don't do this crap and they have a good reason to.

Also? Uncut penis is the normal, natural penis. Cut penis is the misshapen one by comparison. On what grounds could you possibly say otherwise?

Exactly. Prohibition was a failure, and banning circumcisions will be too. If a woman is willing to vet a back alley abortion for something as serious as a new child, then why wouldn't parents do the same for something as trivial as a circumcision?

Preference on circumcision, by women, who have no right to make the decision, is not going to be anywhere near as strong as preference on abortion.

[Vashta Nerada]

Sounds like a personal opinion too me.

You made a fucking statement that women would not find uncircumcised penises attractive. That's your personal opinion from assumptions that you made about how women feel about penis attractiveness. As a woman who fucks dudes (well, just one at present), I pointed out that not all of us do care and that circumcision status is not a deciding factor in how attractive penises are.

Well I never claimed that my point was the ultimate end all on female opinion. Note how I say I doubt it, not that it was a fact. It was my opinion. You asserted an opinion as well. So chill out and move on. You don't get extra point for getting angry over the internet.

[Gim]

I'm for circumcisions. My kid doesn't have a choice? Too bad. When the kid is an adult, then they can complain about circumcisions and how horrible they are. Until they get a job, move out, or contribute to the household in some meaningful way, their rights are nil. Besides that, I don't care. Besides, I highly doubt there are many women out there who want to look at a guy's misshapen anteater penis.

Your children are not your property. They may be given into your care, they may be your responsibility, but they aren't washing machines. You can't just do whatever you like to them. They're people. It does not grow back.

Screw "parental choice" - we ban FGM and rightfully so despite it being "parental choice". We wouldn't let it slide if you were cutting off pieces of ears (not just piercings). Most developed countries don't do this crap and they have a good reason to.

Also? Uncut penis is the normal, natural penis. Cut penis is the misshapen one by comparison. On what grounds could you possibly say otherwise?

Thank you. I was very close to being irate reading what he said.

[Dakini]

The attractiveness of penises is not determined by the presence of absence of foreskin.

Are there any sources or statistics you could provide that support this claim?

Here's an article about a study which indicates that by and large, people do not give a shit whether or not their sexual partner has foreskin.


edit to add: Also, I'm not even sure why some people decide this is a good reason to surgically alter themselves. If someone's acceptance of you depends on getting some surgery, you're probably better off excising them from your life.

[Jacobania]

So these studies suspiciously not presented are biased?

Seems legit.

I didn't read the studies themselves, only abstracts at most. As far as I can tell, the entire difference in the rate of complications between infants and adults is that adults had the possibility to like how their uncircumcised penis looked before it was circumcised, but infants don't. However, it might be that adults are more likely to have other issues as well.

One of the issues I have not seen reported at all is a loss of nerve function which is greater in adults than infants, as Saiwania claims.

Again, no sources provided except Saiwania's claim, which, to my surprise,...

The glans of the penis for a circumcised man is going to become keratinized from being exposed to the air and elements all the time, instead of not having that happen if they were uncircumcised. It can be argued that the difference in sensitivity is negligible, but uncircumcised men definitely have an edge in that metric.

Foreskin restoration doesn't bring back any nerves, but does reverse said keratinization process for a man who was circumcised for a while so that the head becomes more sensitive than before.

... has no source whatsoever.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

Besides, I highly doubt there are many women out there who want to look at a guy's misshapen anteater penis.

Considering that 60% of all male youth are uncircumcised, I'm pretty sure you have it the other way around.

[The Alma Mater]

I'm for circumcisions. My kid doesn't have a choice? Too bad. When the kid is an adult, then they can complain about circumcisions and how horrible they are. Until they get a job, move out, or contribute to the household in some meaningful way, their rights are nil. Besides that, I don't care. Besides, I highly doubt there are many women out there who want to look at a guy's misshapen anteater penis.

What kind of compensation are they allowed to demand as adults then ?

[Test208]

Exactly. Prohibition was a failure, and banning circumcisions will be too. If a woman is willing to vet a back alley abortion for something as serious as a new child, then why wouldn't parents do the same for something as trivial as a circumcision?

They can be tried to see whether it produced befit. If it did, they should receive a big reward. If not, they should be put to death for violating the law.

[USS Monitor]

Several. I've seen attractive penises that are circumcised, ugly penises that are circumcised (including one that had a pretty bad looking scar from the procedure), attractive penises that are non-circumcised, unattractive penises that are non-circumcised. Foreskin doesn't really matter since that all retracts when a guy's hard anyway.

Sounds like a personal opinion too me.

So what was your statement about women not wanting to look at uncircumcised penises? You didn't provide a source or anything.

[Vashta Nerada]

I'm for circumcisions. My kid doesn't have a choice? Too bad. When the kid is an adult, then they can complain about circumcisions and how horrible they are. Until they get a job, move out, or contribute to the household in some meaningful way, their rights are nil. Besides that, I don't care. Besides, I highly doubt there are many women out there who want to look at a guy's misshapen anteater penis.

Your children are not your property. They may be given into your care, they may be your responsibility, but they aren't washing machines. You can't just do whatever you like to them. They're people. It does not grow back.

Screw "parental choice" - we ban FGM and rightfully so despite it being "parental choice". We wouldn't let it slide if you were cutting off pieces of ears (not just piercings). Most developed countries don't do this crap and they have a good reason to.

Also? Uncut penis is the normal, natural penis. Cut penis is the misshapen one by comparison. On what grounds could you possibly say otherwise?

Exactly. Prohibition was a failure, and banning circumcisions will be too. If a woman is willing to vet a back alley abortion for something as serious as a new child, then why wouldn't parents do the same for something as trivial as a circumcision?

Preference on circumcision, by women, who have no right to make the decision, is not going to be anywhere near as strong as preference on abortion.

Actually, they are under my supervision, medical and otherwise. So until the state says otherwise, bug off.

[Dakini]

You made a fucking statement that women would not find uncircumcised penises attractive. That's your personal opinion from assumptions that you made about how women feel about penis attractiveness. As a woman who fucks dudes (well, just one at present), I pointed out that not all of us do care and that circumcision status is not a deciding factor in how attractive penises are.

Well I never claimed that my point was the ultimate end all on female opinion. Note how I say I doubt it, not that it was a fact. It was my opinion. You asserted an opinion as well. So chill out and move on. You don't get extra point for getting angry over the internet.

It's really funny that you, as a man, think you get to tell me, a woman, what women find attractive in men.

[Saiwania]

It's not loss of nerve endings like you keep claiming.

It is by virtue of the fact that a foreskin has some nerve endings that a circumcised penis simply won't have. That is, unless the circumcision was done at an early age, then perhaps the circumcised man would have just as much sensitivity with the exception of their glans.

[The Alma Mater]

Actually, they are under my supervision, medical and otherwise. So until the state says otherwise, bug off.

That already has limits. You are, for instance, not allowed to tattoo your kids with "Satan is my Lord" or pierce their nipples.
Why should cicrumcision be any different when not done for medical reasons ?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Your children are not your property. They may be given into your care, they may be your responsibility, but they aren't washing machines. You can't just do whatever you like to them. They're people. It does not grow back.

Screw "parental choice" - we ban FGM and rightfully so despite it being "parental choice". We wouldn't let it slide if you were cutting off pieces of ears (not just piercings). Most developed countries don't do this crap and they have a good reason to.

Also? Uncut penis is the normal, natural penis. Cut penis is the misshapen one by comparison. On what grounds could you possibly say otherwise?



Preference on circumcision, by women, who have no right to make the decision, is not going to be anywhere near as strong as preference on abortion.

Actually, they are under my supervision, medical and otherwise. So until the state says otherwise, bug off.

And according to 90 years of Constitutional law (if you're in the US), the Supreme Court backs that.

[Gim]

Well I never claimed that my point was the ultimate end all on female opinion. Note how I say I doubt it, not that it was a fact. It was my opinion. You asserted an opinion as well. So chill out and move on. You don't get extra point for getting angry over the internet.

It's really funny that you, as a man, think you get to tell me, a woman, what women find attractive in men.

Wait. He's a man?

[Vashta Nerada]

Sounds like a personal opinion too me.

So what was your statement about women not wanting to look at uncircumcised penises? You didn't provide a source or anything.

No I didn't provide a source, because as I already mentioned, it was my personal opinion. The concept of having to watch a guy's anteater penis unsheth itself, revealing the cottage cheese bellow sounds horrible to me.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It's not loss of nerve endings like you keep claiming.

It is by virtue of the fact that a foreskin has some nerve endings that a circumcised penis simply won't have. That is, unless the circumcision was done at an early age, then perhaps the circumcised man would have just as much sensitivity with the exception of their glans.

Have you had sex? Are you circumcised or not? Can you attest to some loss of nerve ending in your case?

[Vashta Nerada]

It's really funny that you, as a man, think you get to tell me, a woman, what women find attractive in men.

Wait. He's a man?

Dun dun dunnnnn!

[Councordia]

I think I trust the CDC, and AAP more then a doctor on the Penn and Tellar show.

this. Don't really care about the Op's 'sources'.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Actually, they are under my supervision, medical and otherwise. So until the state says otherwise, bug off.

That already has limits. You are, for instance, not allowed to tattoo your kids with "Satan is my Lord" or pierce their nipples.
Why should cicrumcision be any different when not done for medical reasons ?

That is something that, honestly, I don't know how it should be approached. The state doesn't seem to be very keen on interfering with parents choosing medical treatments for their children.

[Dakini]

I didn't read the studies themselves, only abstracts at most. As far as I can tell, the entire difference in the rate of complications between infants and adults is that adults had the possibility to like how their uncircumcised penis looked before it was circumcised, but infants don't. However, it might be that adults are more likely to have other issues as well.

One of the issues I have not seen reported at all is a loss of nerve function which is greater in adults than infants, as Saiwania claims.

Again, no sources provided except Saiwania's claim, which, to my surprise,...

The glans of the penis for a circumcised man is going to become keratinized from being exposed to the air and elements all the time, instead of not having that happen if they were uncircumcised. It can be argued that the difference in sensitivity is negligible, but uncircumcised men definitely have an edge in that metric.

Foreskin restoration doesn't bring back any nerves, but does reverse said keratinization process for a man who was circumcised for a while so that the head becomes more sensitive than before.

... has no source whatsoever.

Uh. Yes. My point was that I have not found any sources which indicate that nerve function was impeded more for adult circumcision than infant circumcision and that some of the "greater complications" for adults are trivial. Thank you for catching up to several pages ago.

I mean, you are aware that I was arguing against Saiwania, yes?

[Test208]

Have you had sex? Are you circumcised or not? Can you attest to some loss of nerve ending in your case?

Someone already showed earlier in the thread that circumcision causes more infant deaths than things like penile cancer.