NationStates' Transgender Thread II

[Italios]

OK, so I don't manage male characters very well.

Pssst! There's a What Do You Look Like Thread. Just thought your should know.

[Vassenor]

OK, so I don't manage male characters very well.

Pssst! There's a What Do You Look Like Thread. Just thought your should know.

I am aware that thread exists. I have posted there several times.

Also no one has objected to me posting stuff like that before.

[Italios]

Pssst! There's a What Do You Look Like Thread. Just thought your should know.

I am aware that thread exists. I have posted there several times.

Also no one has objected to me posting stuff like that before.

Not objecting, of course. I didn't know you knew it existed. Apologies.

[Nature-Spirits]

"transfeminine" =/= "transwoman"

Transfeminine encompasses multiple different groups, including transwomen. In this case, however, I believe it is referring to a non-binary person who leans towards the feminine side.

Source

See, I just figured it was used to indicate a transition away from the gender expression associated with one's sex at birth.

Like, I don't consider myself a woman. I do, however, consider myself transfem, since in order to reach my ideal gender expression, I'll have to fem things up a bit.

For whatever sense that makes.

Same, more or less. I mean, I know some people who do identify as transfeminine/transmasculine, and from what I can tell they're basically between androgyne and woman/man (generally while being AMAB/AFAB, respectively), but I agree that those labels can also be used in the sense you're talking about.

Also, speaking of pronouns and being transfem, my shrink has started using "she" pronouns for me. It... honestly makes me somewhat uncomfortable, since I'm most comfortable with "they", but eh, it's a nice change from "he". I mean, I would ask for "they", but the thing with providers is that you never really know how non-binary-affirming they are, and if you assert yourself as too non-binary, they might not be as supportive. I feel like she may still be supportive (apparently she sees a lot of trans people), but considering how when I previously asserted my non-binary identity (in our first meeting, I think), she assumed I was still questioning... I'm not so sure.

Anyone here feel that we have some sort of ethical obligation to promote the use of gender-neutral pronouns where appropriate?

I've never really tried to correct anyone about it, myself.

People seem to have a real problem using the proper pronouns for M2F or F2M transfolk, though. Irks me quite a bit, especially when the people with the problem are my friends.

I get annoyed pretty much whenever I see "he/she" or "he or she". Like, if all my country's legislation is written using "he or she", does that mean I don't have to follow the law?

But yeah, I get annoyed when people consistently mess up pronouns, too. I mean, mistakes are fine -- hell, I've accidentally misgendered other trans people, myself -- but when it's truly consistent, I just wanna lecture them.

OK, so I don't manage male characters very well.

You look better as a girl, tbh.

So I guess I managed to sum up my reasons for not coming out reasonably succinctly.

I totally understand that. In regards to the making changes dilemma: personally, I've become 100% sure about doing estrogen, because I know that if I don't try it, I'm always going to think about it and wonder why I haven't pursued it. And if I don't like it, I can stop. The same thing with other aspects of transition, really, although that's what's bothered me the most.

And for what it's worth, you're a woman to me, until/unless you tell me otherwise.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

So it may diminish til it disappears or it will be an ongoing thing that requires therapy, right?

It has so many variables that it's hard to predict. Some will lose the dysphoria even without SRS. Others won't feel complete until the vagina/penis is there. Then some won't ever feel complete as science hasn't progressed far enough or have body frames that can cause dysphoria by being too similar to their assigned gender at birth.

That's unfortunate, that some people may not even find respite from it after transitioning.

[Grenartia]

OK, so I don't manage male characters very well.

Should've done FemItaly.

[Grenartia]

See, I just figured it was used to indicate a transition away from the gender expression associated with one's sex at birth.

Like, I don't consider myself a woman. I do, however, consider myself transfem, since in order to reach my ideal gender expression, I'll have to fem things up a bit.

For whatever sense that makes.

Same, more or less. I mean, I know some people who do identify as transfeminine/transmasculine, and from what I can tell they're basically between androgyne and woman/man (generally while being AMAB/AFAB, respectively), but I agree that those labels can also be used in the sense you're talking about.

Also, speaking of pronouns and being transfem, my shrink has started using "she" pronouns for me. It... honestly makes me somewhat uncomfortable, since I'm most comfortable with "they", but eh, it's a nice change from "he". I mean, I would ask for "they", but the thing with providers is that you never really know how non-binary-affirming they are, and if you assert yourself as too non-binary, they might not be as supportive. I feel like she may still be supportive (apparently she sees a lot of trans people), but considering how when I previously asserted my non-binary identity (in our first meeting, I think), she assumed I was still questioning... I'm not so sure.

Anyone here feel that we have some sort of ethical obligation to promote the use of gender-neutral pronouns where appropriate?

I've never really tried to correct anyone about it, myself.

People seem to have a real problem using the proper pronouns for M2F or F2M transfolk, though. Irks me quite a bit, especially when the people with the problem are my friends.

I get annoyed pretty much whenever I see "he/she" or "he or she". Like, if all my country's legislation is written using "he or she", does that mean I don't have to follow the law?

But yeah, I get annoyed when people consistently mess up pronouns, too. I mean, mistakes are fine -- hell, I've accidentally misgendered other trans people, myself -- but when it's truly consistent, I just wanna lecture them.

OK, so I don't manage male characters very well.

You look better as a girl, tbh.

So I guess I managed to sum up my reasons for not coming out reasonably succinctly.

I totally understand that. In regards to the making changes dilemma: personally, I've become 100% sure about doing estrogen, because I know that if I don't try it, I'm always going to think about it and wonder why I haven't pursued it. And if I don't like it, I can stop. The same thing with other aspects of transition, really, although that's what's bothered me the most.

And for what it's worth, you're a woman to me, until/unless you tell me otherwise.

Yeah, it seems like whenever you explain to non-millenial cis people that you're non-binary, they automatically rewrite it to say "questioning my gender". Like, fuck that, no, I just told you I'm certain, not questioning.

[Vassenor]

OK, so I don't manage male characters very well.

You look better as a girl, tbh.

With this hobby I do have to make some concessions to my still being closeted.

[The Serbian Empire]

It has so many variables that it's hard to predict. Some will lose the dysphoria even without SRS. Others won't feel complete until the vagina/penis is there. Then some won't ever feel complete as science hasn't progressed far enough or have body frames that can cause dysphoria by being too similar to their assigned gender at birth.

That's unfortunate, that some people may not even find respite from it after transitioning.

Someone with similar vocal and physical properties to myself would be more likely to be unable to find respite as there's only so much one can do with a bass voice and an imposing frame.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That's unfortunate, that some people may not even find respite from it after transitioning.

Someone with similar vocal and physical properties to myself would be more likely to be unable to find respite as there's only so much one can do with a bass voice and an imposing frame.

Would estrogen heavy HRT help to make the voice a bit more feminine?


Oh, regarding that list of voice resources i posted several pages ago, there's another app I found that could help. It's called PitchLab. It comes for both iOS and Android. PitchLab is mostly for singing and instrument practice, but according to this lady, it can help voice training for MtF women. She expands.

[The Serbian Empire]

Someone with similar vocal and physical properties to myself would be more likely to be unable to find respite as there's only so much one can do with a bass voice and an imposing frame.

Would estrogen heavy HRT help to make the voice a bit more feminine?


Oh, regarding that list of voice resources i posted several pages ago, there's another app I found that could help. It's called PitchLab. It comes for both iOS and Android. PitchLab is mostly for singing and instrument practice, but according to this lady, it can help voice training for MtF women. She expands.

I've found a way to alter the pitch adequate up to contralto range. At this point, it's proven to me that I have a tone issue instead as I have more monotone than Al Gore in an English lecture.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Would estrogen heavy HRT help to make the voice a bit more feminine?


Oh, regarding that list of voice resources i posted several pages ago, there's another app I found that could help. It's called PitchLab. It comes for both iOS and Android. PitchLab is mostly for singing and instrument practice, but according to this lady, it can help voice training for MtF women. She expands.

I've found a way to alter the pitch adequate up to contralto range. At this point, it's proven to me that I have a tone issue instead as I have more monotone than Al Gore in an English lecture.

Heh, all the more reason to practice, Risa.

BTW, general question: is MtF women a good way to refer to girls like you, or is the qualifier of MtF not necessary?

[Vorond]

And yes, there are transpeople who do not conform to the gender binary and identify as something other than men or women.

By the way go to the trans thread if you're honestly open minded about learning about transpeople.

I'm all ears.

[Nature-Spirits]

You look better as a girl, tbh.

With this hobby I do have to make some concessions to my still being closeted.

True enough, I suppose.

Also, speaking of pronouns and being transfem, my shrink has started using "she" pronouns for me. It... honestly makes me somewhat uncomfortable, since I'm most comfortable with "they", but eh, it's a nice change from "he". I mean, I would ask for "they", but the thing with providers is that you never really know how non-binary-affirming they are, and if you assert yourself as too non-binary, they might not be as supportive. I feel like she may still be supportive (apparently she sees a lot of trans people), but considering how when I previously asserted my non-binary identity (in our first meeting, I think), she assumed I was still questioning... I'm not so sure.

Yeah, it seems like whenever you explain to non-millenial cis people that you're non-binary, they automatically rewrite it to say "questioning my gender". Like, fuck that, no, I just told you I'm certain, not questioning.

Yeah. Sometimes it's kind of annoying, sometimes it makes me really anxious.

Also, in my case, if I tell someone that I'm genderfluid, I feel like their perception of what that means might be skewed by Miley Cyrus and Ruby Rose -- neither of which is very representative at all of the non-binary community (considering that neither of them, AFAIK, has undergone any sort of medical or legal transition, and that both of them use "she" pronouns). I feel like a lot of cis people like them because they can feel like they're acknowledging people beyond the gender binary without having to challenge their cisnormative outlooks too much.

This is actually a really good article about that kind of thing.

I've found a way to alter the pitch adequate up to contralto range. At this point, it's proven to me that I have a tone issue instead as I have more monotone than Al Gore in an English lecture.

Heh, all the more reason to practice, Risa.

BTW, general question: is MtF women a good way to refer to girls like you, or is the qualifier of MtF not necessary?

Personally, I prefer to use "trans woman" to "MTF (woman)", but I'm not a trans woman (when it's necessary to specify that the person is trans, that is), so I'm probably not the best person to answer that question. I feel like a lot of the choice in terminology depends on the person's generation.

And yes, there are transpeople who do not conform to the gender binary and identify as something other than men or women.

By the way go to the trans thread if you're honestly open minded about learning about transpeople.

I'm all ears.

Ask away.

[Fabulous Rainicorns]

I'm worried about my Halloween costume. I'm really excited to wear it, but I'm worried that I'll be feeling too dysphoric to wear it.

[The Alexanderians]

I'm worried about my Halloween costume. I'm really excited to wear it, but I'm worried that I'll be feeling too dysphoric to wear it.

Oooo~ What's the costume?

[Nature-Spirits]

There's apparently a database for trans healthcare in the US now.

[USS Monitor]

Yeah, it seems like whenever you explain to non-millenial cis people that you're non-binary, they automatically rewrite it to say "questioning my gender". Like, fuck that, no, I just told you I'm certain, not questioning.

Yeah. Sometimes it's kind of annoying, sometimes it makes me really anxious.

Also, in my case, if I tell someone that I'm genderfluid, I feel like their perception of what that means might be skewed by Miley Cyrus and Ruby Rose -- neither of which is very representative at all of the non-binary community (considering that neither of them, AFAIK, has undergone any sort of medical or legal transition, and that both of them use "she" pronouns). I feel like a lot of cis people like them because they can feel like they're acknowledging people beyond the gender binary without having to challenge their cisnormative outlooks too much.

Wait... Is Miley Cyrus supposed to be genderfluid?

I hope you won't be too offended if I take that with a grain of salt, considering her addiction to publicity and controversy, and the lack of a medical or legal transition.

[Nature-Spirits]

Yeah. Sometimes it's kind of annoying, sometimes it makes me really anxious.

Also, in my case, if I tell someone that I'm genderfluid, I feel like their perception of what that means might be skewed by Miley Cyrus and Ruby Rose -- neither of which is very representative at all of the non-binary community (considering that neither of them, AFAIK, has undergone any sort of medical or legal transition, and that both of them use "she" pronouns). I feel like a lot of cis people like them because they can feel like they're acknowledging people beyond the gender binary without having to challenge their cisnormative outlooks too much.

Wait... Is Miley Cyrus supposed to be genderfluid?

I hope you won't be too offended if I take that with a grain of salt, considering her addiction to publicity and controversy, and the lack of a medical or legal transition.

Oh, I take it with a grain of salt as well. When celebrities say stuff like that but don't actually undergo any sort of (visible) transition, I tend to be sceptical. I'm not sure if she's just using it as a way to say that she transgresses gender norms (although it's not like she's unfeminine) or if she's actually trying to assert a non-binary identity.

She also reportedly said that she feels "like a 15-year-old boy trapped in the body of a 22-year-old girl". Which, to me, just sounds fuckin' weird, but whatever.

[The Alexanderians]

Yeah. Sometimes it's kind of annoying, sometimes it makes me really anxious.

Also, in my case, if I tell someone that I'm genderfluid, I feel like their perception of what that means might be skewed by Miley Cyrus and Ruby Rose -- neither of which is very representative at all of the non-binary community (considering that neither of them, AFAIK, has undergone any sort of medical or legal transition, and that both of them use "she" pronouns). I feel like a lot of cis people like them because they can feel like they're acknowledging people beyond the gender binary without having to challenge their cisnormative outlooks too much.

Wait... Is Miley Cyrus supposed to be genderfluid?

I hope you won't be too offended if I take that with a grain of salt, considering her addiction to publicity and controversy, and the lack of a medical or legal transition.

Miley keeps changing what she says she is so I'd take anything she'd say on the matter with a grain of salt. If she's legitimately genderfluid good for her, but I don't like how she's using it to get attention.

Also Ruby Rose is genderfluid? Since when?

[The Alexanderians]

Wait... Is Miley Cyrus supposed to be genderfluid?

I hope you won't be too offended if I take that with a grain of salt, considering her addiction to publicity and controversy, and the lack of a medical or legal transition.

Oh, I take it with a grain of salt as well. When celebrities say stuff like that but don't actually undergo any sort of (visible) transition, I tend to be sceptical. I'm not sure if she's just using it as a way to say that she transgresses gender norms (although it's not like she's unfeminine) or if she's actually trying to assert a non-binary identity.

She also reportedly said that she feels "like a 15-year-old boy trapped in the body of a 22-year-old girl". Which, to me, just sounds fuckin' weird, but whatever.

Maybe she's just emotionally stunted and doesn't know how to properly deal with it *shrugs*

[Nature-Spirits]

Wait... Is Miley Cyrus supposed to be genderfluid?

I hope you won't be too offended if I take that with a grain of salt, considering her addiction to publicity and controversy, and the lack of a medical or legal transition.

Miley keeps changing what she says she is so I'd take anything she'd say on the matter with a grain of salt. If she's legitimately genderfluid good for her, but I don't like how she's using it to get attention.

Also Ruby Rose is genderfluid? Since when?

Ruby Rose the actress (actor?) in Orange is the New Black, not Ruby Rose the character from RWBY.

Oh, I take it with a grain of salt as well. When celebrities say stuff like that but don't actually undergo any sort of (visible) transition, I tend to be sceptical. I'm not sure if she's just using it as a way to say that she transgresses gender norms (although it's not like she's unfeminine) or if she's actually trying to assert a non-binary identity.

She also reportedly said that she feels "like a 15-year-old boy trapped in the body of a 22-year-old girl". Which, to me, just sounds fuckin' weird, but whatever.

Maybe she's just emotionally stunted and doesn't know how to properly deal with it *shrugs*

I wouldn't be surprised, frankly. I imagine that often happens to child stars.

[USS Monitor]

Wait... Is Miley Cyrus supposed to be genderfluid?

I hope you won't be too offended if I take that with a grain of salt, considering her addiction to publicity and controversy, and the lack of a medical or legal transition.

Oh, I take it with a grain of salt as well. When celebrities say stuff like that but don't actually undergo any sort of (visible) transition, I tend to be sceptical. I'm not sure if she's just using it as a way to say that she transgresses gender norms (although it's not like she's unfeminine) or if she's actually trying to assert a non-binary identity.

I thought the same thing -- that she might just be challenging gender roles rather than actually being non-binary.

She also reportedly said that she feels "like a 15-year-old boy trapped in the body of a 22-year-old girl". Which, to me, just sounds fuckin' weird, but whatever.

She probably has mental issues from growing up in the spotlight, and I mean issues that go beyond her gender identity. The 15-year old part of that probably comes from not having enough time to relax and just be a kid when she was younger.

I have no idea if she's really trans, but she's definitely screwy. Kind of reminds me of Michael Jackson and all his weird plastic surgeries and whatever he did to his skin.

[The Alexanderians]

Miley keeps changing what she says she is so I'd take anything she'd say on the matter with a grain of salt. If she's legitimately genderfluid good for her, but I don't like how she's using it to get attention.

Also Ruby Rose is genderfluid? Since when?

(Image)

Ruby Rose the actress (actor?) in Orange is the New Black, not Ruby Rose the character from RWBY.

There can be only one


That's why I didn't know this other Ruby...I only watch good shows I MEAN I don't watch Orange is the New Black

[Tafhan]

Is being Transexual really, actually still in the DSM-V as a mental disorder?

This isn't meant to be pointed. I've just heard claims it is, and I would be amazed if that's actually the case.