NationStates' Transgender Thread II

[Linux and the X]

Chunky. Heels.

It depends. Like these are super cute, but these just look like solid blocks, they're really ugly.

Yeah. Open top combined with chunky heels is horribly unbalanced. Boots are best.

[The Grey Wolf]

It depends. Like these are super cute, but these just look like solid blocks, they're really ugly.

Yeah. Open top combined with chunky heels is horribly unbalanced. Boots are best.

When did "gay" become synonymous with "super sexy?"

[Linux and the X]

Yeah. Open top combined with chunky heels is horribly unbalanced. Boots are best.

When did "gay" become synonymous with "super sexy?"

Because everyone who sees me in them can tell I'm a flaming lesbo? (Admittedly the flannel probably helps too.)

[USS Monitor]

Yeah, and it's worse for heels.

Oh man, I'm conflicted about heels. I'm not sure if I like them or not. I guess I like some of them? Plus I know they're painful and hard to walk in.

You might have to shop around more if you want to look pretty and feminine without wearing heels, but it can be done. There are some really nice flat-soled women's boots out there.

[The Grey Wolf]

When did "gay" become synonymous with "super sexy?"

Because everyone who sees me in them can tell I'm a flaming lesbo? (Admittedly the flannel probably helps too.)

I wish people could tell that I'm a flaming lesbo. Although considering I'm femme, I'm not sure that would be possible or desirable.

[Aphryss]

Oh man, I'm conflicted about heels. I'm not sure if I like them or not. I guess I like some of them? Plus I know they're painful and hard to walk in.

You might have to shop around more if you want to look pretty and feminine without wearing heels, but it can be done. There are some really nice flat-soled women's boots out there.

I think if I were to define it down, I like some heels (not too high) but I don't like stilettos. Flatter is generally more practical, but there's no reason to go completely flat ... and no reason to be completely practical 100% of the time.

[Nature-Spirits]

Hi.

Just, well, popping in. I don't really have much to discuss. Still feel kind of weird, I guess? I don't give this much thought nowadays, though I guess I do find myself kind of casually/offhandedly thinking like a woman more than a man, of that makes sense? I dunno, I'm weird. Anyways, hi again.

Hey again. Never hesitate to discuss with any of us, either here or in TG. And if you don't feel much overt distress about gender stuff, that's fine. There's no right way to be trans. You don't even have to transition, if you don't want to. How you proceed is all up to you.

Chunky. Heels.

It depends. Like these are super cute, but these just look like solid blocks, they're really ugly.

Holy shit, that first pair is gorgeous.

The second is just ew.

It depends. Like these are super cute, but these just look like solid blocks, they're really ugly.

Yeah. Open top combined with chunky heels is horribly unbalanced. Boots are best.

Damn, I love these. I want them. D:

When did "gay" become synonymous with "super sexy?"

Because everyone who sees me in them can tell I'm a flaming lesbo? (Admittedly the flannel probably helps too.)

xD I have to say, flannel on girls is really hot. Cute butch girls ftw!

I mean, I'm not sexually interested in the vast majority of girls (I'm androsexual and panromantic), but still. Super hot. (I've joked many times that I wish I were a lesbian -- for context, I present publicly as a gay man, since I haven't transitioned yet.)

Because everyone who sees me in them can tell I'm a flaming lesbo? (Admittedly the flannel probably helps too.)

I wish people could tell that I'm a flaming lesbo. Although considering I'm femme, I'm not sure that would be possible or desirable.

Join a roller derby club.

Seriously though, it looks like a really fun sport. I'm a wimp so I'd probably die, but I enjoy watching it.

[USS Monitor]

You might have to shop around more if you want to look pretty and feminine without wearing heels, but it can be done. There are some really nice flat-soled women's boots out there.

I think if I were to define it down, I like some heels (not too high) but I don't like stilettos. Flatter is generally more practical, but there's no reason to go completely flat ... and no reason to be completely practical 100% of the time.

I give practicality a high priority when it comes to clothes, but it is nice if you can find something that looks good too.

[Linux and the X]

Join a roller derby club.

The WFTDA rules for trans people are pretty decent. HRT is required for tournaments, but not for non-tournament play. They don't require that teams accept trans women (which would be difficult to enforce at best), but they do encourage it.

[Vassenor]

...I need more cute shoes. Clearly.

[The Alexanderians]

Join a roller derby club.

The WFTDA rules for trans people are pretty decent. HRT is required for tournaments, but not for non-tournament play. They don't require that teams accept trans women (which would be difficult to enforce at best), but they do encourage it.

Honestly that seems like one of the more fair systems that should be used as a template.

[Vassenor]

And the less said about the crap rules from that League of Legends tournament the better.

[The Alexanderians]

And the less said about the crap rules from that League of Legends tournament the better.

Why's it matter?

[Czardas]

W/R/T the number of trans men (I can't be bothered quoting, it's a PITA to edit quotes for the relevant bits on my iPad), my theory is that a woman who assumes masculine roles is seen by society as reaching upwards. So masculine women or butch lesbians stand out less than effeminate men, who are seen as reaching downwards. If that makes sense. Pronouns and things in that paragraph are a mess, but you get what I mean.

I don't think this is really true, or at least hasn't been in my experience. Women who are genuinely gender-nonconforming (i.e. as opposed to the "thin, white, conventionally attractive but maybe has short hair or something" images that are the conventional and nonthreatening presentation of female gender-nonconformity) have a very difficult time of it, and are rarely if ever perceived as "masculine", but rather as something like monstrous—and those who are seen as masculine are treated almost as usurpers, and often subject to violence or harassment intended to force them back within a feminine/submissive role. (even if this is only by creating a constant fear of men in order to limit their participation in the public sphere)

I think trans men transition earlier for precisely the opposite reason—it's much more difficult to live as a "masculine" woman than as a man, even a "feminine" one. But what appears to be a higher prevalence of sex dysphoria among trans men also may play a role. Dysphorics rarely ever survive past about twenty without either transitioning or reacclimatising to their bodies some other way. (Often both, in whichever order.)

[USS Monitor]

W/R/T the number of trans men (I can't be bothered quoting, it's a PITA to edit quotes for the relevant bits on my iPad), my theory is that a woman who assumes masculine roles is seen by society as reaching upwards. So masculine women or butch lesbians stand out less than effeminate men, who are seen as reaching downwards. If that makes sense. Pronouns and things in that paragraph are a mess, but you get what I mean.

I don't think this is really true, or at least hasn't been in my experience. Women who are genuinely gender-nonconforming (i.e. as opposed to the "thin, white, conventionally attractive but maybe has short hair or something" images that are the conventional and nonthreatening presentation of female gender-nonconformity) have a very difficult time of it, and are rarely if ever perceived as "masculine", but rather as something like monstrous—and those who are seen as masculine are treated almost as usurpers, and often subject to violence or harassment intended to force them back within a feminine/submissive role. (even if this is only by creating a constant fear of men in order to limit their participation in the public sphere)

I think trans men transition earlier for precisely the opposite reason—it's much more difficult to live as a "masculine" woman than as a man, even a "feminine" one. But what appears to be a higher prevalence of sex dysphoria among trans men also may play a role. Dysphorics rarely ever survive past about twenty without either transitioning or reacclimatising to their bodies some other way. (Often both, in whichever order.)

I think masculine women get less shit than feminine men.

[Neutraligon]

It depends. Like these are super cute, but these just look like solid blocks, they're really ugly.

Yeah. Open top combined with chunky heels is horribly unbalanced. Boots are best.

Might look into wedges. They tend to be easier to walk in and still look great.

[Torsiedelle]

Thanks for the support and whatnot.

I guess I really haven't been thinking too much about gender dysphoria and stuff because of other issues that have been going on, like fucking depression and stress. I was seriously about to just freak out and start jumping down someone's throat a few minutes ago because they gave me the wrong tine to do something. I really just want to punch people a lot now. I don't think about my identity too much, because I'm either completely miserable or angry as hell.

[Vassenor]

Then again I'm not sure if I can say "more" cute shoes considering the only ones I have are Cosplay shoes rather than real ones.

Like so.

[Aphryss]

Thanks for the support and whatnot.

I guess I really haven't been thinking too much about gender dysphoria and stuff because of other issues that have been going on, like fucking depression and stress. I was seriously about to just freak out and start jumping down someone's throat a few minutes ago because they gave me the wrong tine to do something. I really just want to punch people a lot now. I don't think about my identity too much, because I'm either completely miserable or angry as hell.

Depression and anxiety are often associated with gender dysphoria, it's true, but they can also be caused by a whole host of other things. It sounds like you'd benefit from counselling. As someone who struggled with anger management throughout my childhood (plus anxiety both social and general, depression, and phobias), I can confirm that it's really worth it. It took me a while to find a good psychologist, but it really has changed my life.


I found this series of videos on retraining your voice, which is useful as a 101 info sort of thing. I've still got not much idea how to start - I've never been much of a singer and I don't even really know what I sound like right now - but it's a good explanation as to what's involved. I guess I just need to find the 100 level prereq, voice training for absolute dummies.

One of my stepsisters is a speech language therapist, assuming coming out to her goes well she may have some pointers.

Current mood: kinda upset/sad I didn't immediately understand the entire theory and muscle manipulations behind altering one's voice. Which, when you put it that way, of course sounds ridiculous. Behind the discouragement that I didn't immediately get it is the fear that I won't be able to do it at all, and I remain resolute that I will not be dictated to by fear. Fear is the mind killer, fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. And I am fucking INDESTRUCTIBLE.

[Grenartia]

It depends. Like these are super cute, but these just look like solid blocks, they're really ugly.

Yeah. Open top combined with chunky heels is horribly unbalanced. Boots are best.

I'll take purple combat boots, plox.

[Grenartia]

Thanks for the support and whatnot.

I guess I really haven't been thinking too much about gender dysphoria and stuff because of other issues that have been going on, like fucking depression and stress. I was seriously about to just freak out and start jumping down someone's throat a few minutes ago because they gave me the wrong tine to do something. I really just want to punch people a lot now. I don't think about my identity too much, because I'm either completely miserable or angry as hell.

I know your feels.

[Linux and the X]

Yeah. Open top combined with chunky heels is horribly unbalanced. Boots are best.

I'll take purple combat boots, plox.

Practical, cute, and really freaking gay?

[Vassenor]

That pricetag though...

[Linux and the X]

That pricetag though...

Eh, fuck it. Do I really need to eat this month?

[Yootxtlalkaan]

W/R/T the Culture, one of the explicitly stated assumptions underlying the Culture universe is that the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis is not only true but strongly true; language shapes psyche. The Culture's language, Marain, is a constructed language explicitly designed to promote egalitarian thinking. In The Player of Games, the protagonist travels to the explicitly hierarchical and sexist Azad Empire, immerses himself in their culture, starts to think in their language, and his thinking actually changes to be more like theirs.

Huh. That's... actually an odd extension of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis. Personally, I give the concept some credit, since I think it's definitely conceivable that language shapes the way we think. After all, in translation between languages, there is often a good deal of ambiguity and impreciseness -- Spanish has separate words for the inside and outside of a corner, for instance, whereas English uses the same word for both. Colours are a good example of the hypothesis at work, I think: while russophones would consider light blue and dark blue fundamentally different colours, pre-War japanophones would consider all shades of blue, along with green, a single colour; speakers of Telugu, meanwhile, would conflate green and yellow! This is doubly so for culturally-specific concepts: most anglophones would have difficulty gaining a full understanding of the Japanese concept of kami (神). At the same time, there are alternate explanations for many examples, and I don't think that it can be extended so far as that series would propose.

tl;dr: I'm a nerd who plans to be a linguist.

the most interesting example imo is guugu yimithirr, an australian-aboriginal language that uses purely absolute directional terms (north, south etc. rather than left, right etc.)

I do know of several good webcomics starring trans characters, if you're into those. Rain is one of my favourites, and I also enjoy Validation. For something more focused on quirky skits rather than a cohesive story, I like Chaos Life.

i love validation, i'mma have to check out the other ones

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anyways i was gonna ask for advice. i have a pretty prominent adam's apple and up until now have been wearing scarves and/or turtlenecks almost all the time, but now it's starting to get too warm for that. any ideas?