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Mega City 5
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Social Liberal: Practical Atheism

Postby Mega City 5 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:19 pm

At the quasi-request of certain other posters, I have decided to dedicate a thread to this matter.

Social liberalism, to my mind, is a social and spiritual disease. It is utterly repulsive in every way. It has no redeeming qualities. It is disgusting. [This is, of course, to say nothing about social liberals. An idealogy can be utterly and irredeemably flawed, wrong and disgusting. Idealogues, however, are not, at least, not this side of eternity.]

Before I go any further, let me briefly define my terms:

By "social liberalism," I understand the general ideaology or set of idealogies which lead to the acceptance of such doctrines as:

1. Homosexual conduct is morally permissible. It's not an unholy crime against nature which cries out to heaven for vengeance. In fact, it should receive State sponsorship (read: "gay marriage").
2. Abortion is morally permissible. It's not the murder of an unborn child. It' not an unholy crime against nature which cries out to heaven for vengeance. In fact, it should receive State sponsorship.
3. Contraceptives are morally permissible. It's also not a crime against nature. In fact, they should receive State sponsorship.
4. The death penalty, paradoxically, is generally wrong and should be administered only when there is no other option. It's OK to kill babies if the mother doesn't want them around, but it's generally WRONG to kill convicted violent criminals! It's WRONG to kill those who threaten society and who undermine the public safety and peace! :eyebrow:
5. A corollary to 4: **** the police. Law enforcement is practically one of the few things that should have less state sponsorship. Policemen bad. Criminals good.
6. Sex change operations are something other than genital mutilation and plastic surgery. In fact, it should probably receive State funding too! (Unlike those evil policemen. How dare they insist on preserving law and order!?)
7. YOU MUST HAVE SEX! Regardless of whether you can support children or not, regardless of whether you are married or even plan on ever becoming married or not, and regardless of whether it would even be dangerous for you to bear children. YOU MUST HAVE SEX! >:(

I could go on. But I think you understand the kind of thing that I mean. I think that you understand the kind of people that I mean. Such a doctrine, of course, would be comic, if only nobody took it seriously. This plague of the human mind, this unholy disease of the human spirit, however, is the veritable credo of the modern Western world.

And what is the demonic germ of these doctrines? What is the underlying supposition which so utterly poisons the human mind that it leads those whom it infects to "call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20)?

Atheism: the virtual rejection of the very notion of God.

To which you'll answer: "But Mega City 5, there are many theistic social liberals." And I'll agree that there are such people nominally.

The underlying premise of social liberalism is that man is pure self-creation. It takes its start from the modern project, initially expressed in Descartes, of making man a master over nature. It presupposes a violent dualistic divorce between nature and freedom. Man is will. Man is choice. Man is self-creation. He is nothing other than what he chooses to be. In short? The underlying presupposition of social liberalism is that man is God.

And if man is God, then God is not God. If man alone creates himself in his own image and likeness, and if he sees the work of his hands, and that it is good, because he made it, then man is God. God is not God.

Thus does Social Liberalism, in its perverted madness, cry out into the ears of the deceived masses: "CONSENT! FREE CHOICE!"

Because if man is God, a deity of self-creation and free choice, then ultimately, that's all that matters. In fact, in this light, the State and political society start to become something of an embarassment for social liberalism. After all, if man is a God of free choice and self-creation, then how can there be something superior to Him? How can there be something prior to Him? How can there be a higher authority to which he is subject?

Enter bourgeois liberalism and the breakdown of Western society. If man is God, then the State rules only by this man-God's consent and permission. Political society becomes nothing other than a mere contract, nothing but a collective general consent. Nietzsche's words were simply symptomatic of his age, of a movement that had already long been started and was simply reaching its natural progression: "God is dead, and we have killed him!" And thus does Jean-Paul Sartre tell us that there is no God, and this is the very premise of existential philosophy. There is no God, and therefore all things are possible. Whatever man chooses is the good: because he nothing but freedom, nothing but self-creation. There is no nature. There is no God. There is nothing good apart from our choice.

But Descartes had already said as much: what the moderns are seeking is the mastery of man over nature. And how greatly has nature since been mastered in social liberal thought? So greatly has it been mastered that it has ceased to exist.

But if you are a theist, you can believe none of this. If you are a theist, then you must believe that God is God, and man is not God. Man is not pure self-creation. He is a part of the created order, he is a part of nature, and nature is good. Why? Because God made it.

"And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good" (Genesis 1:31).

As Plotinus tells us in one of his tracts in the Enneads: if the created universe could speak to us, she would tell us: "God made me! Because of that, I am beautiful and good!"

If you are a theist, then you must admit that the entire created order is a theophany. It is a continual reflection and image of God's goodness. It is finitely lovable, because He is infinitely lovable. It is finitely good, because He is infinitely good.It is finitely beautiful, because He is infinitely beautiful.

If you are a theist, then you must oppose the social liberalism at every turn.

It says that man is God. It says that man is nothing other than self-creation. The theist, in turn, must say:

"Nay. God created man in His image and likeness."

The social liberal will deny that there is such a thing as nature, and certainly a nature of man. And even if there were a nature of man, so what? The theist, in turn, must say:

"Nay, for God created us, and all that God has created is good. Human nature is good."

And so on for all of the doctrines of social liberalism. It all relies on the assumption that there is no nature and there is no God. It all presupposes that man is God.

If man is not God, and God is God, then social liberalism is false. Abortion is murder. Sodomy is an unholy crime against nature. Contraceptives are wrong. Sex changes operations are nothing more than genital mutilation. Political society is good and public safety and order is to be valued, and criminals are to be considered guilty and bad if they offend against her.

If God is God, then man has an intrinsic dignity and worth, because he is made in God's image and likeness, because He has been created by God. But if that's true, then man's freedom has natural limits, and not all things are permissible. There is such a thing as a natural law.

"Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee" (Jeremiah 1:5).

Topic of discussion:

Are atheism and social liberalism mutually consistent?
Last edited by Mega City 5 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Atomic Utopia
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Postby Atomic Utopia » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:22 pm

Nice blog.

So what are we supposed to discuss again? I do not see any clearly defined discussion topic here.
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Postby Diopolis » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:23 pm

You remind me of my parish priest, or more specifically his homily calling liberalism(specifically, the french revolution) witchcraft.
Of course, I mostly agree with you. Social liberalism is a product of the emptiness of secular life.
Last edited by Diopolis on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gim » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:23 pm

7. YOU MUST HAVE SEX! Regardless of whether you can support children or not, regardless of whether you are married or even plan on ever becoming married or not, and regardless of whether it would even be dangerous for you to bear children. YOU MUST HAVE SEX! >:(


Why is this? Can one be liberal in whether they want to have sex or not? Maybe, there are people who are averse to having sexual intercourse with other men or women. How does this fall in align with social liberalism?
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Postby Guadalupador » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:23 pm

Social Liberalism- "A social and spiritual disease."
We're off to a lovely start aren't we?

I personally think that people should be able to do their own thing. Does that make me a bad person?
Last edited by Guadalupador on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tinfect » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:24 pm

Cool blog, mate.
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Mega City 5
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Postby Mega City 5 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:25 pm

Atomic Utopia wrote:Nice blog.

So what are we supposed to discuss again? I do not see any clearly defined discussion topic here.


Are theism and social liberalism mutually consistent?

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Mega City 5
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Postby Mega City 5 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:27 pm

Gim wrote:Why is this? Can one be liberal in whether they want to have sex or not? Maybe, there are people who are averse to having sexual intercourse with other men or women. How does this fall in align with social liberalism?


I have nothing against sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse, so long as it is between a man and his wife and is open to life, is good. God made it.

Social liberals take it much farther than that. They take it as a veritable imperative. A social liberal/atheist acquaintance of mine complained about a certain animal school mascot being in a (rather large and luxurious) cage/habitat at a certain college. Why? Because it can't have sex. That makes the luxurious and expensive habitat inhumane. :eyebrow:
Last edited by Mega City 5 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:31 pm

Mega City 5 wrote:
Gim wrote:Why is this? Can one be liberal in whether they want to have sex or not? Maybe, there are people who are averse to having sexual intercourse with other men or women. How does this fall in align with social liberalism?


I have nothing against sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse, so long as it is between a man and his wife and is open to life, is good. God made it.

Social liberals take it much farther than that. They take it as a veritable imperative. A social liberal/atheist acquaintance of mine complained about a certain animal school mascot being in a (rather large and luxurious cage/habitat) at a certain college. Why? Because it can't have sex. That makes the luxurious and expensive habitat inhumane. :eyebrow:

Would it be more acceptable to you if they offered to oversee the mascot's wedding to a like animal?
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Postby Threlizdun » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:32 pm

Get a blog. Homosexuality is fine, abortion is fine, same-sex marriage is fine, sexual reassignment surgery is fine, the current criminal justice system is shit, the death penalty is wrong, and sex is fun.
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Postby Heraklea- » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:32 pm

Atomic Utopia wrote:Nice blog.

So what are we supposed to discuss again? I do not see any clearly defined discussion topic here.

I'm pretty sure we're supposed to discuss his obvious victim complex.

"How dare social liberals insist that same-sex marriage, which has no impact in any way, shape or form, be recognized by the government? How dare they insist that bodily sovereignty be respected? How dare they insist that safe-sex practices be easily procured? How dare they insist that the irreversible punishment of death not be employed except in the most heinous of cases because of the well documented failings of the justice system in its application? How dare they insist police, the most visible embodiment on the states monopoly on the legitimate use of force, be held to a higher standard than the every man on the street? How dare they insist that people should be able to feel themselves in their own body, regardless of their physical sex at birth? How dare they insist..."

Yeah, I got nothing for that last one. It makes no sense and is not based in any form of reality. But fuck that, he's got an axe to grind against a political ideology that doesn't adhere to his strict theocratic morality. And what comes after is so confused and meandering, it really isn't worth responding to.

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Postby Diopolis » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:34 pm

Mega City 5 wrote:
Atomic Utopia wrote:Nice blog.

So what are we supposed to discuss again? I do not see any clearly defined discussion topic here.


Are theism and social liberalism mutually consistent?

No, but saying so is impolite.
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Mega City 5
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Postby Mega City 5 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:36 pm

Heraklea- wrote:"How dare social liberals insist that same-sex marriage, which has no impact in any way, shape or form, be recognized by the government? How dare they insist that bodily sovereignty be respected? How dare they insist that safe-sex practices be easily procured? How dare they insist that the irreversible punishment of death not be employed except in the most heinous of cases because of the well documented failings of the justice system in its application? How dare they insist police, the most visible embodiment on the states monopoly on the legitimate use of force, be held to a higher standard than the every man on the street? How dare they insist that people should be able to feel themselves in their own body, regardless of their physical sex at birth? How dare they insist..."


In other words:

"How dare we insist that man is God? How dare we insist that man is nothing but self-creation and pure choice? How dare we insist that there are natural limits to man's freedom, and there is an objective moral order? How dare we deny that God made us?"

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Postby Atealia » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:36 pm

There can't still be people like this can there? No it's not a disease. If we are gonna start calling beliefs out I would call religion more of a societal disease than social liberalism but because of liberalism you can freely speak your mind whether we agree with you or not (and while I can't speak for everyone I certainly don't). There is no scientific proof that there is anything inherently wrong with homosexuality and so long as that is the case I won't concern myself with the teachings of a thousand year old book.
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Postby Threlizdun » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:36 pm

Mega City 5 wrote:
Gim wrote:Why is this? Can one be liberal in whether they want to have sex or not? Maybe, there are people who are averse to having sexual intercourse with other men or women. How does this fall in align with social liberalism?


I have nothing against sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse, so long as it is between a man and his wife and is open to life, is good. God made it.

Social liberals take it much farther than that. They take it as a veritable imperative. A social liberal/atheist acquaintance of mine complained about a certain animal school mascot being in a (rather large and luxurious) cage/habitat at a certain college. Why? Because it can't have sex. That makes the luxurious and expensive habitat inhumane. :eyebrow:

There is nothing about social liberalism that demands sex. Some people want to have casual sex and others don't. Some don't want to have sex at all. As long as all involved are consenting, there is nothing wrong with any of these attitudes. People should be free to do as they wish so long as they don't harm others.
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Postby Tinfect » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:37 pm

Mega City 5 wrote:"How dare we insist that man is God? How dare we insist that man is nothing but self-creation and pure choice? How dare we insist that there are natural limits to man's freedom, and there is an objective moral order? How dare we deny that God made us?"


These... social liberals don't follow the same dogmatic religion that I do! Burn the Heretics!
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:37 pm

So...mega city 5. I don't suppose you have quotes from the only book that holds any weight, the book of the LAW! :)

:mad: I. AM. THE LAW! :p
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Postby Mega City 5 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:38 pm

Threlizdun wrote:Get a blog. Homosexuality is fine, abortion is fine, same-sex marriage is fine, sexual reassignment surgery is fine, the current criminal justice system is shit, the death penalty is wrong, and sex is fun.


What's so utterly comic about the social liberal position, driven as it is by pure relativism, is that you can't even claim what you are claiming. If man is pure self-creation, then homosexual conduct is as not-fine as it is fine, as is homosexual "marriage," genital mutilation, etc.

After all, if man is pure self-creation, then he can generate prohibitions as well as permissions.
Last edited by Mega City 5 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Threlizdun » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:41 pm

Mega City 5 wrote:
Threlizdun wrote:Get a blog. Homosexuality is fine, abortion is fine, same-sex marriage is fine, sexual reassignment surgery is fine, the current criminal justice system is shit, the death penalty is wrong, and sex is fun.


What's so utterly comic about the social liberal position, driven as it is by pure relativism, is that you can't even claim what you are claiming. If man is pure self-creation, then homosexual conduct is as not-fine as it is fine, as is homosexual "marriage," genital mutilation, etc.

After all, if man is pure self-creation, then he can generative prohibitions as well as permissions.
What the hell are you even talking about? We didn't create ourselves; we just exist. Do you seriously believe that accepting the reality of evolution and all the knowledge we have about the evolution of the human species somehow means we think we created ourselves?

I also never recall mentioning moral relativism. I'm not a moral relativist; I'm a utilitarian.
Last edited by Threlizdun on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tinfect » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:42 pm

Mega City 5 wrote:After all, if man is pure self-creation, then he can generate prohibitions as well as permissions.


There's no 'self-creation' about it. Humans are the result of natural processes over millions of years. In any case, yes, we can. It's called Law.
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Postby Constantinopolis » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:42 pm

You have to admit though, many of the arguments in favour of a right to an abortion just look bizarre when the same person suddenly turns around and argues against the death penalty.

I don't think it's logically consistent to be, at the same time, (a) ok with late-term abortion, and (b) fundamentally opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances. And yet, absurdly, many people combine those two stances anyway.
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Postby Radiatia » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:42 pm

Your entire argument hinges on the supposed existence of a deity.

I don't believe in "God".

Your argument just disappeared in a puff of logic.

This annoys me actually because although I'm an atheist, I actually consider myself more socially conservative than socially liberal. However this particular brand of theocratic drivel disguised as conservatism passed its heyday in the renaissance period.

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Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:44 pm

Constantinopolis wrote:You have to admit though, many of the arguments in favour of a right to an abortion just look bizarre when the same person suddenly turns around and argues against the death penalty.

I don't think it's logically consistent to be, at the same time, (a) ok with late-term abortion, and (b) fundamentally opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances. And yet, absurdly, many people combine those two stances anyway.

The death penalty is a matter of inefficient justice systems irreversibly targeting people it's not supposed to.

Abortion is a matter of bodily autonomy.
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Postby Threlizdun » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:44 pm

Constantinopolis wrote:You have to admit though, many of the arguments in favour of a right to an abortion just look bizarre when the same person suddenly turns around and argues against the death penalty.

I don't think it's logically consistent to be, at the same time, (a) ok with late-term abortion, and (b) fundamentally opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances. And yet, absurdly, many people combine those two stances anyway.

I'm sorry that you don't understand why not demanding women carry a fetus to term is different from not killing a person.
Last edited by Threlizdun on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:45 pm

Constantinopolis wrote:You have to admit though, many of the arguments in favour of a right to an abortion just look bizarre when the same person suddenly turns around and argues against the death penalty.

I don't think it's logically consistent to be, at the same time, (a) ok with late-term abortion, and (b) fundamentally opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances. And yet, absurdly, many people combine those two stances anyway.


Good thing I support both :p
Last edited by Washington Resistance Army on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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