Playboy To Drop Nude Pictorials In Magazine Overhaul

[Yumyumsuppertime]

It's not that you can't be a feminist, it just seems odd. It's not even that you need to agree with her. It's just that her influence on the feminist movement in the later part of the 20th century cannot be overstated. It's like saying that you're a rock fan but that you've never heard of The Beatles, or calling yourself a Democrat and being unfamiliar with FDR.

The Beatles and FDR appeared in my high school history books. She did not. She also doesn't regularly appear in entertainment media and popular culture. So, I fail to see how it's so unbelievable that I've never enountered her before.

You get all of your political and musical knowledge from your high school textbooks?

She's Gloria fucking Steinem. She essentially led the feminist movement through the 60s and much of the 70s. If you say that you're a Labor supporter, but don't know the names Jimmy Hoffa and Caesar Chavez, then that's odd. If you say that you're a film buff, but don't know the name Hitchcock, then that's odd. And if you claim that you're a feminist, but have never heard of Gloria Steinem, then that's weirder than the other two combined.

[Chessmistress]

The Beatles and FDR appeared in my high school history books. She did not. She also doesn't regularly appear in entertainment media and popular culture. So, I fail to see how it's so unbelievable that I've never enountered her before.

You get all of your political and musical knowledge from your high school textbooks?

She's Gloria fucking Steinem. She essentially led the feminist movement through the 60s and much of the 70s. If you say that you're a Labor supporter, but don't know the names Jimmy Hoffa and Caesar Chavez, then that's odd. If you say that you're a film buff, but don't know the name Hitchcock, then that's odd. And if you claim that you're a feminist, but have never heard of Gloria Steinem, then that's weirder than the other two combined.

And she always have been absolutely against Playboy and absolutely against every kind of pornography.

[Galloism]

You get all of your political and musical knowledge from your high school textbooks?

She's Gloria fucking Steinem. She essentially led the feminist movement through the 60s and much of the 70s. If you say that you're a Labor supporter, but don't know the names Jimmy Hoffa and Caesar Chavez, then that's odd. If you say that you're a film buff, but don't know the name Hitchcock, then that's odd. And if you claim that you're a feminist, but have never heard of Gloria Steinem, then that's weirder than the other two combined.

And she always have been absolutely against Playboy and absolutely against every kind of pornography.

Well, nobody's perfect.

[Olthar]

The Beatles and FDR appeared in my high school history books. She did not. She also doesn't regularly appear in entertainment media and popular culture. So, I fail to see how it's so unbelievable that I've never enountered her before.

You get all of your political and musical knowledge from your high school textbooks?

She's Gloria fucking Steinem. She essentially led the feminist movement through the 60s and much of the 70s. If you say that you're a Labor supporter, but don't know the names Jimmy Hoffa and Caesar Chavez, then that's odd. If you say that you're a film buff, but don't know the name Hitchcock, then that's odd. And if you claim that you're a feminist, but have never heard of Gloria Steinem, then that's weirder than the other two combined.

So I can't call myself a feminist unless I research the history of the movement? How exclusionary and elitist. It's almost like you want to drive people away.

[The Archregimancy]

It's not that you can't be a feminist, it just seems odd. It's not even that you need to agree with her. It's just that her influence on the feminist movement in the later part of the 20th century cannot be overstated. It's like saying that you're a rock fan but that you've never heard of The Beatles, or calling yourself a Democrat and being unfamiliar with FDR.

The Beatles and FDR appeared in my high school history books. She did not. She also doesn't regularly appear in entertainment media and popular culture. So, I fail to see how it's so unbelievable that I've never enountered her before.

I'm sorry, but I'm with everyone else on this one; I'm genuinely stunned that anyone based in the United States who would characterise themselves as supportive of women's rights wouldn't have heard of Gloria Steinem, or would attempt to characterise such an influential and important figure as a 'pet wacko'.

Of course it doesn't mean you can't be a feminist if you haven't heard of Steinem; but as Yumyum notes, it does look odd. She's been the most prominent voice in the American feminist movement for some 50 years. Also, in terms of her popular culture street cred, she's Batman's stepmother (or Christian Bale's, anyway).


Moving this back on-topic, Steinem wrote a famous critique of the Playboy ethos back in 1963 after going undercover as a Playboy Bunny. Quoting Steinem's Wiki entry:

In 1963, while working on an article for Huntington Hartford's Show magazine, Steinem was employed as a Playboy Bunny at the New York Playboy Club.The article, published in 1963 as "A Bunny's Tale", featured a photo of Steinem in Bunny uniform and detailed how women were treated at those clubs.Steinem has maintained that she is proud of the work she did publicizing the exploitative working conditions of the bunnies and especially the sexual demands made of them, which skirted the edge of the law.

A PDF of a photocopy of the original article can be found here: http://dlib.nyu.edu/undercover/sites/dl ... 201963.pdf

[Chessmistress]

You get all of your political and musical knowledge from your high school textbooks?

She's Gloria fucking Steinem. She essentially led the feminist movement through the 60s and much of the 70s. If you say that you're a Labor supporter, but don't know the names Jimmy Hoffa and Caesar Chavez, then that's odd. If you say that you're a film buff, but don't know the name Hitchcock, then that's odd. And if you claim that you're a feminist, but have never heard of Gloria Steinem, then that's weirder than the other two combined.

So I can't call myself a feminist unless I research the history of the movement? How exclusionary and elitist. It's almost like you want to drive people away.

Naaahh, as long as you're against pornography like Gloria Steinem always have been, then you're a Feminist and you don't need to know her full story.

[Galloism]

So I can't call myself a feminist unless I research the history of the movement? How exclusionary and elitist. It's almost like you want to drive people away.

Naaahh, as long as you're against pornography like Gloria Steinem always have been, then you're a Feminist and you don't need to know her full story.

Or not against pornography at all but just want to advance women's rights and glorious liberalism. You can be a feminist then too.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

You get all of your political and musical knowledge from your high school textbooks?

She's Gloria fucking Steinem. She essentially led the feminist movement through the 60s and much of the 70s. If you say that you're a Labor supporter, but don't know the names Jimmy Hoffa and Caesar Chavez, then that's odd. If you say that you're a film buff, but don't know the name Hitchcock, then that's odd. And if you claim that you're a feminist, but have never heard of Gloria Steinem, then that's weirder than the other two combined.

And she always have been absolutely against Playboy and absolutely against every kind of pornography.

And I respect her right to hold those beliefs, though I don't agree with them.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

You get all of your political and musical knowledge from your high school textbooks?

She's Gloria fucking Steinem. She essentially led the feminist movement through the 60s and much of the 70s. If you say that you're a Labor supporter, but don't know the names Jimmy Hoffa and Caesar Chavez, then that's odd. If you say that you're a film buff, but don't know the name Hitchcock, then that's odd. And if you claim that you're a feminist, but have never heard of Gloria Steinem, then that's weirder than the other two combined.

So I can't call myself a feminist unless I research the history of the movement? How exclusionary and elitist. It's almost like you want to drive people away.

Show me exactly where I stated that you could not call yourself a feminist. I'll wait right here.

[Cetacea]

You get all of your political and musical knowledge from your high school textbooks?

She's Gloria fucking Steinem. She essentially led the feminist movement through the 60s and much of the 70s. If you say that you're a Labor supporter, but don't know the names Jimmy Hoffa and Caesar Chavez, then that's odd. If you say that you're a film buff, but don't know the name Hitchcock, then that's odd. And if you claim that you're a feminist, but have never heard of Gloria Steinem, then that's weirder than the other two combined.

And she always have been absolutely against Playboy and absolutely against every kind of pornography.

I just remember her has a former Playboy Bunny whose expose led to the downfall of the Playboy clubs

[Lordieth]

The age of the porn bush is behind us. Let's all have a respectful moment to honour its passing and be allowed to mourn.

Tissue anyone?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

So I can't call myself a feminist unless I research the history of the movement? How exclusionary and elitist. It's almost like you want to drive people away.

Naaahh, as long as you're against pornography like Gloria Steinem always have been, then you're a Feminist and you don't need to know her full story.

So that means that Jerry Falwell was a feminist?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

The age of the porn bush is behind us. Let's all have a respectful moment to honour its passing and be allowed to mourn.

Tissue anyone?

An unused one, please.

[Cetacea]

The age of the porn bush is behind us. Let's all have a respectful moment to honour its passing and be allowed to mourn.

Tissue anyone?

um, we may need a whole wad of them

[Olthar]

So I can't call myself a feminist unless I research the history of the movement? How exclusionary and elitist. It's almost like you want to drive people away.

Show me exactly where I stated that you could not call yourself a feminist. I'll wait right here.

Well, Chess said it, and you were supporting her. Either way, mocking your supporters is a great way to lose your supporters.

[Empire of Narnia]

A step in the right direction.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Show me exactly where I stated that you could not call yourself a feminist. I'll wait right here.

Well, Chess said it, and you were supporting her. Either way, mocking your supporters is a great way to lose your supporters.

Trust me, I'm not supporting Chess in the slightest. I'm simply surprised that you wouldn't only not know about Steinem, but that you'd dismiss one of the most prominent and influential feminists in American history (Seriously, in terms of name recognition and shadow cast, she's up near Susan B. Anthony) as a "pet kook" of another person here.

[Ethel mermania]

Why won't they start making porn? Like Reality Kings or Brazzers. They already have a brand name, they could reach the top pretty fast.

I imagine because that type of pornography doesn't fit their brand image.

Hefner's first-ever editor's letter claimed that Playboy was aimed at men who 'enjoy mixing up cocktails and an hors d’oeuvre or two, putting a little mood music on the phonograph and inviting in a female acquaintance for a quiet discussion on Picasso, Nietzsche, jazz, sex'.

Whether anyone contributing to this thread buys into that attempt to claim sophistication for a Playboy brand that was becoming increasingly frayed at the edges is another matter entirely, but - and I can't really speak from experience here - I don't imagine that your average video on Reality Kings or Brazzers involves a quiet discussion on Picasso, Nietzsche or jazz over a freshly mixed drink.

Dropping the nudes and keeping the articles is likely far more in keeping with what Hefner wants Playboy to be than hardcore pornography would be.

I trust you were only looking at those site's for research


As to playboy, that has always been Hefner''s story. Sex is important, but it is not the only thing a sophisticated man craves. There are some really spectacular jazz sessions on the old playboy shows.

[Ethel mermania]

The Beatles and FDR appeared in my high school history books. She did not. She also doesn't regularly appear in entertainment media and popular culture. So, I fail to see how it's so unbelievable that I've never enountered her before.

I'm sorry, but I'm with everyone else on this one; I'm genuinely stunned that anyone based in the United States who would characterise themselves as supportive of women's rights wouldn't have heard of Gloria Steinem, or would attempt to characterise such an influential and important figure as a 'pet wacko'.

Of course it doesn't mean you can't be a feminist if you haven't heard of Steinem; but as Yumyum notes, it does look odd. She's been the most prominent voice in the American feminist movement for some 50 years. Also, in terms of her popular culture street cred, she's Batman's stepmother (or Christian Bale's, anyway).


Moving this back on-topic, Steinem wrote a famous critique of the Playboy ethos back in 1963 after going undercover as a Playboy Bunny. Quoting Steinem's Wiki entry:

In 1963, while working on an article for Huntington Hartford's Show magazine, Steinem was employed as a Playboy Bunny at the New York Playboy Club.The article, published in 1963 as "A Bunny's Tale", featured a photo of Steinem in Bunny uniform and detailed how women were treated at those clubs.Steinem has maintained that she is proud of the work she did publicizing the exploitative working conditions of the bunnies and especially the sexual demands made of them, which skirted the edge of the law.

A PDF of a photocopy of the original article can be found here: http://dlib.nyu.edu/undercover/sites/dl ... 201963.pdf

Gloria, would agree that if you don't know her and agree with her on everything. Your not a feminist.

[Cetacea]

Wow I never thought I'd see Godwin's Law invoked in a thread about Playboy.

It's a very famous quote from Gloria Steinem, perhaps the most important living American Feminist.

and just a question is Gloria Steinem more important in Feminism than Germaine Greer?

[Ifreann]

Obviously you should take their assault rifles away first. And also arrest them.

It's better not to let it come to that

It's better not to arm fucking rapists and send them off to keep peace.

[Dooom35796821595]

It's better not to let it come to that

It's better not to arm fucking rapists and send them off to keep peace.

It's not arming rapists, it's more armed rapists. Besides, UN peacekeepers are rarely from western nations, and even they can have a problem with their soldiers.

[Nazis in Space]

Plus, hardcore pornography is Hustler's thing. And Hustler has always been the trashier, dirtier mag in comparison to Playboy's relatively more suave and refined identity.

I'd call it the more interesting, riskier, more confrontational magazine (Also, a completely batshit owner, but I digress), and on account of this plus my own tastes, the better one, but in principle, pretty much that, yes.

Out of the big three - Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler -, the Playboy is generally recognised as the tamest, and trying to break into the market the competition has held for ages... it doesn't really sound like something it can do. There's no niche.

Whereas for becoming even softer, there actually may be a niche - in the US, anyway. Countries with a more liberal attitude to nudity - say, Germany - where it is consequently found everywhere (To wit, happy, bare breasts in Saturday morning and early Monday evening TV. The latter on a universally accessible, state-ran channel), well... you aren't going to convince anyone that buying a playboy featuring lingerie-clad women will be worth it, when said lingerie-clad women can be found in the form of advertising, well... everywhere.

But then again, that's what local market specialisation is for. If McDonalds can do it, so can the Playboy. The abysmal example of Walmart deciding that market research is unncessary notwithstanding.

[Internationalist Bastard]

It's better not to let it come to that

It's better not to arm fucking rapists and send them off to keep peace.

It's better to get them not be rapists, specifically. There isn't a magic screening process where we test if your a rapist when you sign up.

[Minoa]

Playboy will remain controversial in the debate over the portrayal of women for years to come.