Pagan Discussion Thread

[Transoxthraxia]

Funny is subjective.

For instance, some people find jokes about Islam funny. I imagine you'd not appreciate them, however.

someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed morning, you're obviously too road for me fam

Okay, Moe.

[Nature-Spirits]

Depends on how far they take their national pride, really. It's good to be proud of your identity, but it's bad to take that the the extent that you think your group is superior to others'.

Yeah. but seeing your heritage as great and celebrating it is often confused with you thinking your heretage is "superior" these days.

And sometimes your culture's practices really are superior to some other peoples.

That last sentence is debatable, since "superior" is mostly subjective, especially when it comes to cultural practices.

Funny is subjective.

For instance, some people find jokes about Islam funny. I imagine you'd not appreciate them, however.

someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed morning, you're obviously too road for me fam

Excuse me? I feel I must object. My day's actually going relatively smoothly (well, considering I'm clinically depressed, but that's a story for another day), thank you very much. Also, I'd rather you not refer to me as "fam".

And if I'm too "road" (whatever that means) for you, then perhaps you should take yourself (and your roads) elsewhere, since you're obviously not interested in engaging in productive discussion.

[The State of Islam]

Yeah. but seeing your heritage as great and celebrating it is often confused with you thinking your heretage is "superior" these days.

And sometimes your culture's practices really are superior to some other peoples.

That last sentence is debatable, since "superior" is mostly subjective, especially when it comes to cultural practices.

someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed morning, you're obviously too road for me fam

Excuse me? I feel I must object. My day's actually going relatively smoothly (well, considering I'm clinically depressed, but that's a story for another day), thank you very much. Also, I'd rather you not refer to me as "fam".

And if I'm too "road" (whatever that means) for you, then perhaps you should take yourself (and your roads) elsewhere, since you're obviously not interested in engaging in productive discussion.

Calm down bruv I'm only joking. It's just a bit of banta you get me? Btw good luck wit them depression tingz, happened to a girl in my school as well and road means like gangster in Britain. Thought you'd at least know that blud

[The State of Islam]

someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed morning, you're obviously too road for me fam

Okay, Moe.

Aight trany

[The State of Islam]

where you been cuz

In the United Kingdom - the country where British slang comes from.

Nah man I mean what area or city. You from brummy or manny or London or whatever?

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

So is catholic guilt.

It got my main Benuty banned.

I always thought you were the same person...

At least now you know.

[Conscentia]

In the United Kingdom - the country where British slang comes from.

Nah man I mean what area or city. You from brummy or manny or London or whatever?

Some place in England. I'm not convinced you need to know specifically where.

[Jochistan]

Yeah. but seeing your heritage as great and celebrating it is often confused with you thinking your heretage is "superior" these days.

And sometimes your culture's practices really are superior to some other peoples.

That last sentence is debatable, since "superior" is mostly subjective, especially when it comes to cultural practices.

I mean, of course, racism is bad. But some cultures practice suppression and slaughter of innocent people knowingly. And elevation of your cultural practices over those, while not "nice" aren't entirely unjustified.

I think, because paganism is mostly tied to a specific ethnic background, converting to "paganism" for nationalist reasons is generally the best reason for converting. As respect for your heritage will probably fuel observance and respect for the faith and traditions/outlooks of the faith.

[Noraika]

Well this ought to be interesting at the least. I can't believe I didn't really notice this thread before. Well then, I guess I'll join in. I'm a practitioner of Shinto (an animist spiritual practice) also called more properly Kami-no-Michi, or "Way of the Kami" in English. I'm not so much religious as I am superstitious often times, but I do my best to perform rituals faithfully and to observe the Matsuri ('festivals') in what ways I can.

I don't know if you all consider Animism, and more particularly Shinto, to be Pagan, but I do so I'll be sticking around probably appearing off and on; here and there. Looking forward to it.

[Jochistan]

Well this ought to be interesting at the least. I can't believe I didn't really notice this thread before. Well then, I guess I'll join in. I'm a practitioner of Shinto (an animist spiritual practice) also called more properly Kami-no-Michi, or "Way of the Kami" in English. I'm not so much religious as I am superstitious often times, but I do my best to perform rituals faithfully and to observe the Matsuri ('festivals') in what ways I can.

I don't know if you all consider Animism, and more particularly Shinto, to be Pagan, but I do so I'll be sticking around probably appearing off and on; here and there. Looking forward to it.

Are you Japanese? Just out of curiosity. I didn't know that there were too many non Japanese Shinto. Or that they accepted converts.

[Noraika]

Well this ought to be interesting at the least. I can't believe I didn't really notice this thread before. Well then, I guess I'll join in. I'm a practitioner of Shinto (an animist spiritual practice) also called more properly Kami-no-Michi, or "Way of the Kami" in English. I'm not so much religious as I am superstitious often times, but I do my best to perform rituals faithfully and to observe the Matsuri ('festivals') in what ways I can.

I don't know if you all consider Animism, and more particularly Shinto, to be Pagan, but I do so I'll be sticking around probably appearing off and on; here and there. Looking forward to it.

Are you Japanese? Just out of curiosity. I didn't know that there were too many non Japanese Shinto. Or that they accepted converts.

Nope. Not Japanese in the slightest.
There aren't many of us, but there has been a relatively gradual growth as time has gone on of the practice in the West.
Shinto isn't limited to Japanese, or any people. That is a common misconception of the religion.

It is more of just that Shinto is not well known outside of Japan, in terms of its beliefs, and its not a missionary religion, so it has had little reason to leave Japan until recently, and has slowly and naturally started to spread s more people become aware of it. In fact, there are non-Japanese priests, such as the Reverend Koichi Barrish at the Tsubaki Grand Shrine of America, in the States.

Plus it makes sense when you look at it from a Shinto perspective. Kami exist within all things in the universe, so there's no reason a non-Japanese area doesn't also have Kami.

Its a small community to be sure, but there are, at least in my perceptions, a growing community of Shinto practitioners in Western countries. Any other questions?

[Morr]

If I leaned toward one, it would be Hellenism. None of the others bear much resemblance to the religion they are reenacting.

[The Union of the West]

A question for the Asatruars in this thread:

Do those who worship continental variations of the Norse deities constitute a separate religion? Or are they just another part of Asatru.

[The New Sea Territory]

A question for the Asatruars in this thread:

Do those who worship continental variations of the Norse deities constitute a separate religion? Or are they just another part of Asatru.

They are part of Heathenry, which is Germanic pagan revivalism. Asatru is a term used by some (others include Forn Sed, Heathenry, Theodism, Odinism, etc) but it has a very narrow meaning: "Faith in the Aesir". Anglo-Saxon, German and Norse pagans are all within the umbrella of "Heathenry", which is a movement. The different branches and regional variations are just that.

Anything outside Germanic tribes is not a variation, but a separate belief system. Some have a lot in common with others, though, like Slavic paganism and Germanic paganism.

If I leaned toward one, it would be Hellenism. None of the others bear much resemblance to the religion they are reenacting.

And what religion can we thank for that?

I think, because paganism is mostly tied to a specific ethnic background, converting to "paganism" for nationalist reasons is generally the best reason for converting. As respect for your heritage will probably fuel observance and respect for the faith and traditions/outlooks of the faith.

No. No. No. No. Nonononononononononononononononono!

It's this kind of thinking that pretty much ruined the reconstructionist movement of the beliefs of my ancestors. Rodnovery is a cesspool of nationalism, and many Russian and Ukrainian neo-Nazi groups are affiliated with the movement. No other reconstructionist movement (Kemeticism, Heathenry, even Hellenism) is as ultranationalistic as Rodnovery. That, coupled with multiple literary forgeries still venerated by these nationalists, has basically rendered the entire movement and most of Rodnover literature useless to those of us living outside of Eastern Europe, or just those of us who aren't neo-Nazis.

Anyone who is converting to paganism for nationalistic reasons is generally doing it not out of legitimate interest in the old practices (hence why many Rodnovers still defend the Book of Veles), but just as an extension of their political beliefs.

[The Union of the West]

A question for the Asatruars in this thread:

Do those who worship continental variations of the Norse deities constitute a separate religion? Or are they just another part of Asatru.

They are part of Heathenry, which is Germanic pagan revivalism. Asatru is a term used by some (others include Forn Sed, Heathenry, Theodism, Odinism, etc) but it has a very narrow meaning: "Faith in the Aesir". Anglo-Saxon, German and Norse pagans are all within the umbrella of "Heathenry", which is a movement. The different branches and regional variations are just that.

Anything outside Germanic tribes is not a variation, but a separate belief system. Some have a lot in common with others, though, like Slavic paganism and Germanic paganism.

Ah, I see. Thank you!

[The New Sea Territory]

Most of the pagans I've met are pagan for nationalist reasons. Like African Americans getting into Kemetism, Some Whites getting into Nordic/Celtic paganism, and generally Indigenous Peoples trying to get back to their roots.

Do you guys think that being pagan as a response to ethnic history and a sense of national pride is healthy?

Personally I see nothing wrong with it. Even if I don't believe the ideology, people all have their way of showing pride in their heritage.

No, because it always results in perverting the movements. The movements become more an extension of one's national pride rather than one's pride extending from the belief in the Gods.

There is a difference between getting back to one's roots and co-opting a spiritual movement to justify backwards political philosophies.

[The New Sea Territory]

They are part of Heathenry, which is Germanic pagan revivalism. Asatru is a term used by some (others include Forn Sed, Heathenry, Theodism, Odinism, etc) but it has a very narrow meaning: "Faith in the Aesir". Anglo-Saxon, German and Norse pagans are all within the umbrella of "Heathenry", which is a movement. The different branches and regional variations are just that.

Anything outside Germanic tribes is not a variation, but a separate belief system. Some have a lot in common with others, though, like Slavic paganism and Germanic paganism.

Ah, I see. Thank you!

It becomes very complicated when using the word "Asatru", because a lot of people don't like it.

[The Union of the West]

Ah, I see. Thank you!

It becomes very complicated when using the word "Asatru", because a lot of people don't like it.

Because it focuses exclusively on the Aesir, without regards to, say, the Vanir?

[Morr]

And what religion can we thank for that?

Christianity. It's not like secularist modernism doesn't also work to eradicate any way of life that it finds repugnant, though.

[The New Sea Territory]

And what religion can we thank for that?

Christianity. It's not like secularist modernism doesn't also work to eradicate any way of life that it finds repugnant, though.

Exactly. Christianity has almost completely obliterated the practices of my ancestors. There are so few sources, and none from the Slavs themselves.

This is the standard "Yeah well Democrats do X" argument I hear from conservatives. Not buying it. When were we talking about secularism? If anything, we pagans should thank secularism for beating Christianity into a corner so that pagan revival was made possible.

It becomes very complicated when using the word "Asatru", because a lot of people don't like it.

Because it focuses exclusively on the Aesir, without regards to, say, the Vanir?

To an extent, although many Asatruar aren't exclusively devoted to the Aesir. The name just implies that, which is why some people like other labels.

[Cardolain]

My faith is a funny thing. I am a psychic and so I deal with the spiritual in all things. I work with beings and the deceased. I have communed with and worked with the divines but I don't feel that I worship any of them. On my path I can feel the need to connect with nature on a much deeper level. Reconnect really I guess. I believe in and am able to experience past lives. Both my own and others. I don't know if this qualifies ad pagan. Probably not. The philosophy I connect most with would be the Dao but I can see and experience the essence of all faiths. I don't agree with them all but I can understand them on a spiritual level.

[Morr]

Exactly. Christianity has almost completely obliterated the practices of my ancestors. There are so few sources, and none from the Slavs themselves.

Are you talking about Tengri stuff?

This is the standard "Yeah well Democrats do X" argument I hear from conservatives. Not buying it. When were we talking about secularism? If anything, we pagans should thank secularism for beating Christianity into a corner so that pagan revival was made possible.

Pagan revival hasn't actually happened in any religion except for Hellenism, though. The rest are basically LARP'ing.

[Immoren]

Exactly. Christianity has almost completely obliterated the practices of my ancestors. There are so few sources, and none from the Slavs themselves.

Are you talking about Tengri stuff?

This is the standard "Yeah well Democrats do X" argument I hear from conservatives. Not buying it. When were we talking about secularism? If anything, we pagans should thank secularism for beating Christianity into a corner so that pagan revival was made possible.

Pagan revival hasn't actually happened in any religion except for Hellenism, though. The rest are basically LARP'ing.

???

[Nature-Spirits]

Exactly. Christianity has almost completely obliterated the practices of my ancestors. There are so few sources, and none from the Slavs themselves.

1. Are you talking about Tengri stuff?

This is the standard "Yeah well Democrats do X" argument I hear from conservatives. Not buying it. When were we talking about secularism? If anything, we pagans should thank secularism for beating Christianity into a corner so that pagan revival was made possible.

2. Pagan revival hasn't actually happened in any religion except for Hellenism, though. The rest are basically LARP'ing.

1. Tengrism isn't Slavic.

2. What? That's not true at all. Mind backing up your claim, there?

[Cardolain]

Pagan revival hasn't actually happened in any religion except for Hellenism, though. The rest are basically LARP'ing.

I don't believe this to be an accurate assessment of the spirituality of people. There is a very large druidic community relatively speaking. I know a ton of pagans from various pantheons who are actively participating in their faiths. Now whether those faiths have any actual basis in historical or cultural groups has yet to be seen but I don't see that as being the point of the above statement.