Pagan Discussion Thread

[Immoren]

We have a diamond mining industry?

Putting a piece of charcoal into vice. *nods*

[The Grey Wolf]

I once read a "Wiccan" book that said Crowley was evil and should be avoided at all costs...

Not that different from Christians in that regard.

Horseshoe theory!

[Conscentia]

I mentally sacrifice the occasional nihilist to Our Absurd Lord Albert Camus. Other than that, no.

[Heidenheim]

I once read a "Wiccan" book that said Crowley was evil and should be avoided at all costs...

Like I said, they don't acknowledge the Crowleyian/Thelemite influence. With due respect to the more balanced Wiccans who come across this post, I have to say that some Wiccans, especially those new to the religion, can be the most insufferable fluffbunnies in Pagandom.

[Nature-Spirits]

I once read a "Wiccan" book that said Crowley was evil and should be avoided at all costs...

Like I said, they don't acknowledge the Crowleyian/Thelemite influence. With due respect to the more balanced Wiccans who come across this post, I have to say that some Wiccans, especially those new to the religion, can be the most insufferable fluffbunnies in Pagandom.

Mhm.

Honestly, I find the whole "everyone be nice to each other" thing kind of silly. It's a nice thought, but, well, kind of unrealistic. The idea of the Summerland as the afterlife seems kind of silly to me, too, but to each their own.

[Heidenheim]

Pacifism and the path of least resistance is a good value for any religion to hold. Taking it to an absolute extreme is absurd. Even the principle of threefold retribution in Wicca is intended to make room for necessity, including (especially) the necessity for self-preservation. No other major religion that I can think of, other than maybe Skyclad (Digambara) Jainism, takes the principle of harmlessness to an absolute dogma, and I have other issues with Skyclad Jains.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I think absolute pacifism is, frankly, silly - to put it lightly.

Though I do have real issues with religions that outspokenly condone/encourage violence, because usually, it's directed against people that don't deserve it.

[Seaxlandee]

Please do not be swayed by my Varg Vikernes-y OOC politics.

I am a hard polytheistic Norse heathen, based upon my own research. I tend to stay as historically accurate as I can, but obviously I cannot offer up thralls to the Gods

[Empire of Narnia]

How many people here were born into Pagan families VS the ones who converted after?

If you converted to paganism at what age did you do so?

[Seaxlandee]

How many people here were born into Pagan families VS the ones who converted after?

If you converted to paganism at what age did you do so?

I was born into a heathen family.

[Empire of Narnia]

How many people here were born into Pagan families VS the ones who converted after?

If you converted to paganism at what age did you do so?

I was born into a heathen family.

Interesting. Did your family take your religion seriously by going to a church or taking part in any sort of regular prayers, ceremonies or rituals? Was it combined with other beliefs such as White Supremacism?

[Seaxlandee]

I was born into a heathen family.

Interesting. Did your family take your religion seriously by going to a church or taking part in any sort of regular prayers, ceremonies or rituals? Was it combined with other beliefs such as White Supremacism?

The heathen temple in Iceland isn't built yet.
Blots, occasional ritual or two.
No. No. No. No. No. My religion =/= politics.

[The Grey Wolf]

I will say that Wicca in general has some good elements (although I'm not Wiccan; many Wiccan traditions seem to me like they've been subjected to too much New Age influence), but the Gardnerian tradition has honestly never held any appeal for me.

I don't really like Gardner very much as a person based on what I've read. He was a homophobic disciple of Crowley - IOW a rank hypocrite - who misrepresented historical paganism and based a lot of his religious practices around his own sexual fantasies. Some later Wiccans are alright but I don't really like the Wiccan conception of divinity. Some aspects of it seemed modeled after Taoism and Hinduism but the Wiccan approach to those concepts feels watered-down to me.

I'm not fond of him either, but would disagree he misrepresented historical paganism, rather than building his religion on the faulty theories of Margaret Murray. I'm not sure how that would make him a hypocrite. Crowley was bisexual, but just because Gardner learned from him doesn't mean he had to agree with everything he did.

Wicca is probably more influenced by the Hermetic All than it is Taoism or Hinduism.

[The Serbian Empire]

I don't really like Gardner very much as a person based on what I've read. He was a homophobic disciple of Crowley - IOW a rank hypocrite - who misrepresented historical paganism and based a lot of his religious practices around his own sexual fantasies. Some later Wiccans are alright but I don't really like the Wiccan conception of divinity. Some aspects of it seemed modeled after Taoism and Hinduism but the Wiccan approach to those concepts feels watered-down to me.

I'm not fond of him either, but would disagree he misrepresented historical paganism, rather than building his religion on the faulty theories of Margaret Murray. I'm not sure how that would make him a hypocrite. Crowley was bisexual, but just because Gardner learned from him doesn't mean he had to agree with everything he did.

Wicca is probably more influenced by the Hermetic All than it is Taoism or Hinduism.

I'd prefer Crowley to Gardner by a country mile.

[Asherahan]

By the way people what is your opinion on religious prostitution?

[Tierra Prime]

Would you count neo-platonism and its branches as paganism? Plato and Plotinus considered the Hellenic gods to have been appointed to watch over Earth by the Demiurge, who was itself created by the supreme god (Which was essentially the universe itself) known as the One/All. Pltonius compared the One and its divinity to light, in that it was a simple force that wasn't self-aware, it existed simply because it did. I tend to call this force logic, because if it was logical for logic not to exist, it would still exist, because that position would be logical (Meaning logic is the only thing that truly exists).

[The Grey Wolf]

Would you count neo-platonism and its branches as paganism? Plato and Plotinus considered the Hellenic gods to have been appointed to watch over Earth by the Demiurge, who was itself created by the supreme god (Which was essentially the universe itself) known as the One/All. Pltonius compared the One and its divinity to light, in that it was a simple force that wasn't self-aware, it existed simply because it did. I tend to call this force logic, because if it was logical for logic not to exist, it would still exist, because that position would be logical (Meaning logic is the only thing that truly exists).

Like a lot of branches of Hinduism, it could probably be considered both monotheist and polytheistic (or simply monist).

Not sure whether it could be considered pagan, but I've started reading De Anima by Aristotle.

[The Grey Wolf]

By the way people what is your opinion on religious prostitution?

I don't see anything wrong with it.

[Nature-Spirits]

How many people here were born into Pagan families VS the ones who converted after?

If you converted to paganism at what age did you do so?

Hmm. Well, my family is historically Christian (several different denominations, mostly Protestant). However, my mother was raised without a religion (her parents decided that that was the best course of action), and my stepdad is an atheist. My mom sort of falls into the category of "spiritual, but not religious", and is, strictly speaking, atheistic -- i.e. she does not have a belief in any gods, but rather puts stock in her own spiritual experiences (which revolve very much around the concept of Mother Earth, as a non-sentient spiritual entity). Even then, she's fairly agnostic.

So you could say that I was born into a somewhat-spiritual agnostic atheistic family, although I'm culturally Christian. I celebrate the Christian holidays, I've been exposed to Christianity through older relatives, I can rattle off some of the main Christian prayers (although that's also influenced by the few years I spent at Catholic school), etc.

I've always had an interest in religion and mythology, I suppose. I started doing research when I was about 12 -- mostly as a hobby. That was when I discovered Paganism, and Wicca in particular. I thought it was interesting. I still did a lot of research on other things, as well -- other Pagan paths, Hermeticism, etc. Eventually, though, I returned to Wicca. I was probably about 13 when I converted. My spiritual beliefs did evolve quite a bit following that, though. For a while, I became kind of an agnostic atheist. Then I sort of returned to Wicca for a while, but it didn't quite fit anymore. I did more research (I never truly stopped, really), and eventually came to where I am now -- a sort of agnostic ietsist mostly-Anglo-Saxon polytheist with a significant Hermetic influence. I also believe that, while all gods are real beings, that they are most likely constructs formed from the thoughts of humans. In that sense, I see them as independent beings, but (just like humans) part of a larger "All".

Of course, I have no doubt that my beliefs will evolve as I grow and as my body of knowledge grows.

By the way people what is your opinion on religious prostitution?

I think it's fine.

[Asherahan]

By the way people what is your opinion on religious prostitution?

I don't see anything wrong with it.

You really don't?

[Transoxthraxia]

I don't see anything wrong with it.

You really don't?

Not if it serves a purpose within the religion and all participants are willing.

[Heidenheim]

How many people here were born into Pagan families VS the ones who converted after?

If you converted to paganism at what age did you do so?

I'm a convert. I was raised in a mixed Christian family, and later for a while identified as irreligious, but realized that I was not as hard an atheist as I thought myself to be; that was the defiance coming out. I finally found a fit in Paganism around the age of 23.

[snip]
I also believe that, while all gods are real beings, that they are most likely constructs formed from the thoughts of humans. In that sense, I see them as independent beings, but (just like humans) part of a larger "All".

I have to say, I like that. I have a tendency to vacillate between hard and soft polytheism (though I never bought into the "all gods are one" theology); this theory seems to make sense to me.

[The Grey Wolf]

I don't see anything wrong with it.

You really don't?

Why wouldn't I?

[The New Sea Territory]

I have a tendency to vacillate between hard and soft polytheism (though I never bought into the "all gods are one" theology); this theory seems to make sense to me.

Same here. I very much dislike the idea that all the gods are one god.

For example, how are Perun and Veles the same god? Their counterparts in Norse mythology are Thor and probably Loki or Jormungand. They are arch enemies and completely the opposite from one another. If all the gods are one, then this one god has a fairly complicated inner struggle within himself.

[Transoxthraxia]

I have a tendency to vacillate between hard and soft polytheism (though I never bought into the "all gods are one" theology); this theory seems to make sense to me.

Same here. I very much dislike the idea that all the gods are one god.

For example, how are Perun and Veles the same god? Their counterparts in Norse mythology are Thor and probably Loki or Jormungand. They are arch enemies and completely the opposite from one another. If all the gods are one, then this one god has a fairly complicated inner struggle within himself.

It's the concept that all Gods are different aspects of a single, monotheistic figure.

Not a theory I necessarily discredit.