Pagan Discussion Thread

[Asherahan]

Ishtar why did we ever stop worshipping you...

"Ishtar mistress of the gods
Whose yes is truly yes
Ishtar queen of Harlots, Lady of Babylon
Ishtar sweet jewel of Sodom
Beloved daughter of sin

Ishtar

Ishtar unlocked the seven gates
Covenant of Absu, impaled
Naked and Bleeding

Hung left to die upon a Stake
Ishtar Suffer in Darkness

Unheard you cry
Cry for dawn"

Worshipping intesefies

[The Grey Wolf]

Ishtar why did we ever stop worshipping you...

I don't think a lot of our ancestors ever really worshiped Ishtar in the first place. Being on a separate continent and all.

[Nature-Spirits]

No offence intended to anyone here, but Gardner's tradition seems like kind of a sham, tbh.

They're ripped straight from Crowley. When asked by his High Priestess why he filled the Book of Shadows with wholesale paragraphs of Crowley's own holy book, Gardner tried to justify his plagiarism by saying Crowley's poetry was sublime. I don't mean to play theological superiority games, given I'm neither religion, but I feel that people could learn and receive more from Crowley and the original texts than Gardner's watered down version. The whole Wiccan rede basically removes the transcendent elements of Crowley's "Do what thou wilt," and makes it say "do whatever you want."

Damn, I didn't know all that. :/

I will say that Wicca in general has some good elements (although I'm not Wiccan; many Wiccan traditions seem to me like they've been subjected to too much New Age influence), but the Gardnerian tradition has honestly never held any appeal for me.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Thelema is interesting.

Anyone here that practices, or is well-versed in the religion/philosophy?

[Nioya]

Hey. I'm a Christian. So I think I'm supposed to come here and preach the good news to you guys.

[The Grey Wolf]

They're ripped straight from Crowley. When asked by his High Priestess why he filled the Book of Shadows with wholesale paragraphs of Crowley's own holy book, Gardner tried to justify his plagiarism by saying Crowley's poetry was sublime. I don't mean to play theological superiority games, given I'm neither religion, but I feel that people could learn and receive more from Crowley and the original texts than Gardner's watered down version. The whole Wiccan rede basically removes the transcendent elements of Crowley's "Do what thou wilt," and makes it say "do whatever you want."

Damn, I didn't know all that. :/

I will say that Wicca in general has some good elements (although I'm not Wiccan; many Wiccan traditions seem to me like they've been subjected to too much New Age influence), but the Gardnerian tradition has honestly never held any appeal for me.

The Hermetic elements, along with the God/Goddess dichotomy both appeal to me. But the Rule of Three is simply silly, and I'm not a fan of naturalism.

[The Grey Wolf]

Thelema is interesting.

Anyone here that practices, or is well-versed in the religion/philosophy?

I have considered practicing it, and it's probably the religion (with the exception of some Buddhist sects) that I'd never make a conversion to.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Hey. I'm a Christian. So I think I'm supposed to come here and preach the good news to you guys.

Then allow me to make you aware of the bad news:

1) No one cares.
2) That isn't what this thread is about.

[Immoren]

But the Rule of Three is simply silly,

*googles "wicca, rule of three"*...
...
I thought this was going be appropriation/relating of concept of how number three seems to be magical number across the indo-european mythologies.
Or perhaps it is.

[Nature-Spirits]

Hey. I'm a Christian. So I think I'm supposed to come here and preach the good news to you guys.

Or you could, like, not shove your beliefs down others' throats.

Damn, I didn't know all that. :/

I will say that Wicca in general has some good elements (although I'm not Wiccan; many Wiccan traditions seem to me like they've been subjected to too much New Age influence), but the Gardnerian tradition has honestly never held any appeal for me.

The Hermetic elements, along with the God/Goddess dichotomy both appeal to me. But the Rule of Three is simply silly, and I'm not a fan of naturalism.

Yeah, I like the Hermetic elements, too (but I incorporate some Hermeticism into my practice, anyway). I used to like the God/Goddess dichotomy, and I think it has value, but I've moved away from it for a number of reasons, the major ones being: a) it doesn't really fit with my current ideology regarding the nature of divinity (although it used to); and b) I kind of feel like, as a non-binary person, a binary gender dichotomy in divinity isn't something that meshes well with my own gender. And yeah, while I used to hold to the Rule of Three, now I kind of feel like it's simply silly.

[Meryuma]

That sounds more like a "no, I don't believe the gods are real."

The ancient pagans thought their gods were actual beings that could be talked to, bargained with, etc. I don't think I've ever met a modern pagan who actually held to this... which is what turns me away from it. Feels dishonest.

I lean more towards hard polytheism, but an agnostic variant of it. If the gods are not real, then they are personifications of nature. Either way, my practice does not really change much.

Same. The gods aren't humanoid beings who live in the skies, they're more abstract beings/spiritual forces. The icons and myths are a way for us humans to wrap our minds around their roles and nature.

I will say that Wicca in general has some good elements (although I'm not Wiccan; many Wiccan traditions seem to me like they've been subjected to too much New Age influence), but the Gardnerian tradition has honestly never held any appeal for me.

I don't really like Gardner very much as a person based on what I've read. He was a homophobic disciple of Crowley - IOW a rank hypocrite - who misrepresented historical paganism and based a lot of his religious practices around his own sexual fantasies. Some later Wiccans are alright but I don't really like the Wiccan conception of divinity. Some aspects of it seemed modeled after Taoism and Hinduism but the Wiccan approach to those concepts feels watered-down to me.

Thelema is interesting.

Anyone here that practices, or is well-versed in the religion/philosophy?

There was a Thelemite here but he CTE'd earlier this year. I also know a guy on another forum who has experience with Thelema.

[The Grey Wolf]

Hey. I'm a Christian. So I think I'm supposed to come here and preach the good news to you guys.

Because it's not like the story of Jesus is well known in the Western world or anything.

[Meryuma]

That's the thing about the evangelical narrative - it acts like Jesus is super obscure and that people are genuinely surprised and awestruck when they hear about the resurrection. And if you already have a religion that doesn't believe in damnation, the "good news" is bad news. "You almost got sentenced to eternal torture, but I can help bail you out!"

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

That's the thing about the evangelical narrative - it acts like Jesus is super obscure and that people are genuinely surprised and awestruck when they hear about the resurrection. And if you already have a religion that doesn't believe in damnation, the "good news" is bad news. "You almost got sentenced to eternal torture, but I can help bail you out!"

Reminds me of an anecdote in Anne Dillard's Pilgrim at Tinker Creek;

I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?'

[Cetacea]

Hey. I'm a Christian. So I think I'm supposed to come here and preach the good news to you guys.

Psalms 82.1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods

[The Grey Wolf]

That's the thing about the evangelical narrative - it acts like Jesus is super obscure and that people are genuinely surprised and awestruck when they hear about the resurrection. And if you already have a religion that doesn't believe in damnation, the "good news" is bad news. "You almost got sentenced to eternal torture, but I can help bail you out!"

Reminds me of an anecdote in Anne Dillard's Pilgrim at Tinker Creek;

I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?'

Reminded me of that too.

[Transoxthraxia]

I was playing Age of Mythology the other day and it made me start to wonder about the status of Kemetism, Olympianism, and Asatru, but especially the two former. I'm legitimately curious if there's afollowing of Olympian Gods by any Greeks or Greek descendants due to national pride (like myself and Romuva.) rather than finding them "cool".

[Asherahan]

I was playing Age of Mythology the other day and it made me start to wonder about the status of Kemetism, Olympianism, and Asatru, but especially the two former. I'm legitimately curious if there's afollowing of Olympian Gods by any Greeks or Greek descendants due to national pride (like myself and Romuva.) rather than finding them "cool".

They do but the church is using its influence and money to undermine them.

[Transoxthraxia]

I was playing Age of Mythology the other day and it made me start to wonder about the status of Kemetism, Olympianism, and Asatru, but especially the two former. I'm legitimately curious if there's afollowing of Olympian Gods by any Greeks or Greek descendants due to national pride (like myself and Romuva.) rather than finding them "cool".

They do but the church is using its influence and money to undermine them.

That seems a bit paranoid. Is there a source for this?

I was reading somewhere that Greek Polytheists surived in and around Attica/The Peloponnese until the late 8th and early 10th centuries.

[Asherahan]

They do but the church is using its influence and money to undermine them.

That seems a bit paranoid. Is there a source for this?

I was reading somewhere that Greek Polytheists surived in and around Attica/The Peloponnese until the late 8th and early 10th centuries.

I am from greece you don't think I know what is going on in my country?

[Transoxthraxia]

That seems a bit paranoid. Is there a source for this?

I was reading somewhere that Greek Polytheists surived in and around Attica/The Peloponnese until the late 8th and early 10th centuries.

I am from greece you don't think I know what is going on in my country?

I'm Canadian, but I can't properly source you on the effects our diamond mining industry has on the Inuit population.

[Asherahan]

I am from greece you don't think I know what is going on in my country?

I'm Canadian, but I can't properly source you on the effects our diamond mining industry has on the Inuit population.

The gist of it they tried to be recognised as a formal religion and the church exerted it's influence over the state and they got rejected.

[Heidenheim]

They're ripped straight from Crowley. When asked by his High Priestess why he filled the Book of Shadows with wholesale paragraphs of Crowley's own holy book, Gardner tried to justify his plagiarism by saying Crowley's poetry was sublime. I don't mean to play theological superiority games, given I'm neither religion, but I feel that people could learn and receive more from Crowley and the original texts than Gardner's watered down version. The whole Wiccan rede basically removes the transcendent elements of Crowley's "Do what thou wilt," and makes it say "do whatever you want."

Damn, I didn't know all that. :/

I will say that Wicca in general has some good elements (although I'm not Wiccan; many Wiccan traditions seem to me like they've been subjected to too much New Age influence), but the Gardnerian tradition has honestly never held any appeal for me.

Wicca is for many if not most people their introduction to Pagan practice and theology, and most take it from there at least to study further (even if they remain in Wicca) though, yes, it is strongly influenced by Crowleyian principles, and yes, "do what thou wilt" has been misappropriated and is usually invoked out of its original context. Some Wiccans seem to realize this, even if they ignore or dismiss Crowley's influence on modern Paganism.

[Meryuma]

I once read a "Wiccan" book that said Crowley was evil and should be avoided at all costs...

[Nature-Spirits]

That's the thing about the evangelical narrative - it acts like Jesus is super obscure and that people are genuinely surprised and awestruck when they hear about the resurrection. And if you already have a religion that doesn't believe in damnation, the "good news" is bad news. "You almost got sentenced to eternal torture, but I can help bail you out!"

Reminds me of an anecdote in Anne Dillard's Pilgrim at Tinker Creek;

I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?'

That's hilarious.

I am from greece you don't think I know what is going on in my country?

I'm Canadian, but I can't properly source you on the effects our diamond mining industry has on the Inuit population.

We have a diamond mining industry?