Should we ban the impovershed from having children?

[Shiraan]

The presence of automation presents an alternative and more freedom-friendly solution! Automation requires maintenance, and for the foreseeable future you will need human technicians to maintain the machines. The solution is not to castrate the poor, but rather to cultivate technical skills such that they are competitive in a highly technical economy. Technical skill translates into greater pay than does unskilled labor, therefore we can expect higher income for low income earners of tomorrow, just as the low income earners of today enjoy better conditions than do their predecessors.

Again, we're not talking about people who can afford an education. and ffs WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CASTRATING.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Do one better, mandatory sterilization of the poor! *nod*

Also, people with any sort of intellectual disability. Gotta keep that gene pool smart, yo.

A lobotomy would be cheaper to be honest. All it costs is the destruction of someone's personality.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

I mean, sure, it's boring, but it also seems like the most likely to succeed. To get a functioning global society without wasteful conflict, you either 1. Go for the clean slate approach like in BNW, 2. Somehow create a global megaculture that will absorb and outshine all regional ones into quaint irrelevance (This is going to be exceptionally difficult, however it would be achieved will almost certainly involve extreme measures.) or 3. Find a threat credible enough to unite the entire species in combating it.

Or, I dunno, something else.

Brave New World is a utopia in every sense. Orgies on demand, endless amount of Soma pills...yus I will be a Alpha male.

It was actually a dystopia since the world was technologically stagnant, and the government exiled intellectuals, and others to Iceland. Of course the government was beginning to collapse in on itself since it was stuck in the box (in terms of innovation).

[Imperializt Russia]

No.

There is literally no other reasonable response to this question, no.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

I think it's a great idea. Damn libs in this thread have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes. A great idea. A potential for the Brave New World.

I would rather not be exiled to Iceland for the incompetence of some Ford worshiping fools.

[Shiraan]

No. Did you even read my post?

I did, I just didn't understand what you said.

I'm saying that if we're going to give out 'licenses to breed', they need to be based either on ability to actually be a good parent, or ability to produce excellent genetic offspring that will then be raised by someone else.

good parents and good genetics don't mean much to someone who can't afford to feed or educate their child.

I'm saying that there's no good reason to stop the vast majority of people breeding.

I'm not talking about the vast majority, I'm talking about the very poor. If you actually read my post, you'd know that. but you didn't, most likely because you don't care about anyone's opinion but your own.

[Immoren]

Yes. A great idea. A potential for the Brave New World.

I would rather not be exiled to Iceland for the incompetence of some Ford worshiping fools.

[Shiraan]

No.

There is literally no other reasonable response to this question, no.

try to understand what the OP is talking about. then try again.

[Ktilqr]

In order to keep a static population, you need a birth rate of around 2.3 - in many countries the birth rate is now insufficient to maintain a static population. As the population ages, there are less youngsters to fill the vacant posts - and a lot of elderly infirm people who need help. The high income earners tend to have the least children - it has the greatest effect on their income earning ability so children are often born late in the woman's life and are restricted to one or two children at most. It is only in the lower income families that we see larger families - who will provide the pool of labour that we will need in the future.
So if we want doctors and nurses in the future we should support those who are prepared to put in the hard work of raising the next generation.

[The Qeiiam Star Cluster]

Ja, this is a very good idea mein Füh-errr, I mean OP.

[Valkalan]

The presence of automation presents an alternative and more freedom-friendly solution! Automation requires maintenance, and for the foreseeable future you will need human technicians to maintain the machines. The solution is not to castrate the poor, but rather to cultivate technical skills such that they are competitive in a highly technical economy. Technical skill translates into greater pay than does unskilled labor, therefore we can expect higher income for low income earners of tomorrow, just as the low income earners of today enjoy better conditions than do their predecessors.

Again, we're not talking about people who can afford an education. and ffs WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CASTRATING.

The best time to cultivate skills is during the elementary and secondary levels of education.

And while I recognize that you did not advocate the literal practice of castration, your proposed policy of forbidding the poor to multiply is tantamount to castration.

[Imperializt Russia]

No.

There is literally no other reasonable response to this question, no.

try to understand what the OP is talking about. then try again.

The OP is talking about banning the very poor from having children using a means-tested licensing system. The OP is not talking about forced sterilisation of the poor. His first argument why this should be considered is "too much welfare".
Other arguments are "less crime" which means we have officially regressed to the 1930s and also "possible Eugenic effects", meaning we have officially regressed to the shittier parts of the 1930s, ie the California department of corrections.

My statement stands.

[Grave_n_idle]

good parents and good genetics don't mean much to someone who can't afford to feed or educate their child.

I'm well aware of that. And one of these things is something that can be replicated outside of the household.

If Bob and Jane are great parents who have happy kids, but are broke - well, we can fix that. We can give them food and clothes and a house.

We can't make other people CARE. Caring is our rate determining step.

I'm not talking about the vast majority, I'm talking about the very poor.

It's a moving target. If you stop the poor breeding but don't fix the inherent inequality in the system, you'll just be banning different poor people 5 years later.

If you actually read my post, you'd know that. but you didn't, most likely because you don't care about anyone's opinion but your own.

I read it, it's just not a good opinion, so I reject it.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I'm not obliged to pretend yours is worth anything.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

You want to forcefully removing children from families because they're impoverished?

Because otherwise their kids won't be properly taken care of, yes.

Poor people don't know how to take care of their children? That is just the sort of classist, elitist bullshit that infuriates me. Poor people have been having children and taking good care of them since there was such a thing as poor people.

[Shiraan]

The best time to cultivate skills is during the elementary and secondary levels of education.

which, again, means nothing if you can't AFFORD an education.

And while I recognize that you did not advocate the literal practice of castration, your proposed policy of forbidding the poor to multiply is tantamount to castration.

No, castration is permanent, parental licensing is not.

[Imperializt Russia]

The best time to cultivate skills is during the elementary and secondary levels of education.

which, again, means nothing if you can't AFFORD an education.

And while I recognize that you did not advocate the literal practice of castration, your proposed policy of forbidding the poor to multiply is tantamount to castration.

No, castration is permanent, parental licensing is not.

Since most people who are poor tend to spend most if not all of their lives in poverty...

It's basically permanent.

[Palakistan]

Because otherwise their kids won't be properly taken care of, yes.

Poor people don't know how to take care of their children? That is just the sort of classist, elitist bullshit that infuriates me. Poor people have been having children and taking good care of them since there was such a thing as poor people.

Aka forever.

[Galloism]

The best time to cultivate skills is during the elementary and secondary levels of education.

which, again, means nothing if you can't AFFORD an education.

Ok wait wait - I have this great idea.

Let's make elementary and secondary education free, and then heavily subsidize post-secondary education so that cost is not a concern for children.

[Imperializt Russia]

which, again, means nothing if you can't AFFORD an education.

Ok wait wait - I have this great idea.

Let's make elementary and secondary education free, and then heavily subsidize post-secondary education so that cost is not a concern for children.

How communistical of you.

I love it.

[Shiraan]

If Bob and Jane are great parents who have happy kids, but are broke - well, we can fix that. We can give them food and clothes and a house.

And who is going to pay for that? Everyone else?

[Galloism]

If Bob and Jane are great parents who have happy kids, but are broke - well, we can fix that. We can give them food and clothes and a house.

And who is going to pay for that? Everyone else?

Seems reasonable.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

which, again, means nothing if you can't AFFORD an education.

No, castration is permanent, parental licensing is not.

Since most people who are poor tend to spend most if not all of their lives in poverty...

It's basically permanent.

Perhaps we should improve social mobility, then.

[Galloism]

Since most people who are poor tend to spend most if not all of their lives in poverty...

It's basically permanent.

Perhaps we should improve social mobility, then.

Improving social mobility is communism.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

If Bob and Jane are great parents who have happy kids, but are broke - well, we can fix that. We can give them food and clothes and a house.

And who is going to pay for that? Everyone else?

Yes.

[Fashiontopia]

What happens when you're a rich person and you go bankrupt and lose all your money? Is your license now revoked and all your children murdered?